Clattenburg In Trouble

[davieG]

If that is the case then why are so many games of football ruined by officials' decisions, or are just plain dull. I would love to see a sin bin introduced as it would give teams the impetus to attack for those 5-10 minutes rather than just hang on for a draw even if playing Man United.

There is a lot wrong with the game at the moment, and I do think we are on the verge of something game changing happening, and this incident could very well be the catalyst, the game is slowly being destroyed by lying, cheating, win at all costs mercenaries. There needs to be a change in attitude somewhere and it needs to start with the officials of the game, mic them up, give them more powers to punish players on the pitch and retrospectively, stamp out the play acting and going down too easily and the cynical fouling that disrupts and ruins games.

This wont work it'll just create more controversy, they'll continue to get both obvious and marginal decisions wrong, We've had clamp downs by officials before, it didn't work because as i said they'll still get it wrong in the eyes of the managers, players and fans. some will interpret any clampdown more severly than others so we'll be back where we started.

A major part of the problem is that managers, players and fans are happy to give but can't take so you get this constant squealing from them like spoilt kids.

What it needs is a change of attitude from managers and players they're the ones that are "lying, cheating, win at all costs mercenaries".

This needs to start with this organisation - http://www.leaguemanagers.com/ their members are the ones that can stop all the cheating and lying and until they get some integrity, honesty and some balls to do something about it nothing will change.

Having said that I can't see it happening any time soon.

[Captain...]

This wont work it'll just create more controversy, they'll continue to get both obvious and marginal decisions wrong, We've had clamp downs by officials before, it didn't work because as i said they'll still get it wrong in the eyes of the managers, players and fans. some will interpret any clampdown more severly than others so we'll be back where we started.

A major part of the problem is that managers, players and fans are happy to give but can't take so you get this constant squealing from them like spoilt kids.

What it needs is a change of attitude from managers and players they're the ones that are "lying, cheating, win at all costs mercenaries".

This needs to start with this organisation - http://www.leaguemanagers.com/ their members are the ones that can stop all the cheating and lying and until they get some integrity, honesty and some balls to do something about it nothing will change.

Having said that I can't see it happening any time soon.

They are the ones I meant, but they will not change unless the powers that be start punishing that kind of behaviour.

[davieG]

They are the ones I meant, but they will not change unless the powers that be start punishing that kind of behaviour.

They're trying to punish it now witness the Chelsea game and Torres, result massive difference of opinion, now if we could be sure that players wouldn't cheat following strict instructions from their manager the refs decision becomes significantly easier.

[Raj]

Hernandez, but nevermind The incident is actually being investigated, but not for throwing things at Hernandez, but because they think a steward might have got hit and then fell over the barrer haha

Sorry my bad...but you get what i'm saying...chelsea of all clubs..racism?????

[Guest MattP]

In reality here has what has probably happened.

Mark Clattenburg " He was on side, the goal stands".

John Obi Mikel " Are you calling me a Black ****"?

[Bob Weasel Fox]

So the grapes have gone sour in West London.

You can bet your bottom dollar that Chelsea players said far worse to Clattenburg.

This

[Super_horns]

Well what would happen if you threated to break somebody's leg in public as claimed by the media?

Sounds like certain Chelsea players hardly covered themselves in glory.

[MPH]

I would be extremly suprised if Clattenburg has said anything...

Would the linesmen fess up to hearing something if he did?

As an aside, i think Prince Phillip would of made a great ref in his day..

[Rocket-Ron]

What the hell? If it turns out nothing was said to Mikel, and it was just Mata, do you think they'll still care?

No I don't think they will..

But don't fuck wiith the society of Iberian lawyers

[Guest]

Do you think sin-bins would work like they do in rugby for things like abusive comments/diving?

I like the idea of sin bins but I can't see them in football and they would certainly be used as a reason a team lost. There is not enough respect between players and the referee. Players think they are above everyone and can say and do what they want. Pro player don't respect the game itself.

We need to cut the cheating out first and then the bad language. Diving should be penalised strongly - stronger than the foul itself, as the foul is part of the game more so than the dive..

[Guest]

Think it's time to stop F**king with the fundamental rules tbh . The game doesn't need a over haul it is the most popular sport in the world for a reason.

It's NOT the most popular sport in the world. And there are more and more people in Europe every year who are turned off from the sport because of the attitude of players.

I think FIFA needs to be reconstructed and the game needs to get back to it's roots.

[Guest]

If that is the case then why are so many games of football ruined by officials' decisions, or are just plain dull. I would love to see a sin bin introduced as it would give teams the impetus to attack for those 5-10 minutes rather than just hang on for a draw even if playing Man United.

There is a lot wrong with the game at the moment, and I do think we are on the verge of something game changing happening, and this incident could very well be the catalyst, the game is slowly being destroyed by lying, cheating, win at all costs mercenaries. There needs to be a change in attitude somewhere and it needs to start with the officials of the game, mic them up, give them more powers to punish players on the pitch and retrospectively, stamp out the play acting and going down too easily and the cynical fouling that disrupts and ruins games.

Agree with pretty much all of this.

[Kitchandro]

I would much rather see a penalty awarded for stopping a goal scoring opportunity outside the box and no card, than a free kick and a red card.

I think in the case of deliberate hand ball on the line to stop a certain goal, it would need a tv replay and a goal awarded if true and a red card/sin bin.

Although if you see the Palace player last week, Dean Moxey, against Millwall, clearly punched the ball off the line, and realised as soon as he had done it it was a mistake, but it was instinctive, should he really be punished for something he didn't do consciously?

But then you can't really allow subjective decisions, I would say yellow card and a goal awarded, unless it was clearly accidental handball, then just award the goal.

But it didn't go over the line, so how can a goal be awarded?

I think a sending off and a penalty is fair, he made his choice, he'd rather give the goalkeeper a chance to save the goal but make his team play a man less for the rest of the game.

I think the rules are fine.

[Guest]

But it didn't go over the line, so how can a goal be awarded?

I think a sending off and a penalty is fair, he made his choice, he'd rather give the goalkeeper a chance to save the goal but make his team play a man less for the rest of the game.

I think the rules are fine.

Maybe the rules are fine but the referees need help enforcing them ( a 4th and 5th official watching numerous TV angles would be better than have two "linesmen") and acceptance of those rules needs to be closer to absolute. Every decision is questioned during and after and general degenerate behaivour - cheating, answering back to hte ref, asking for fouls/bookings, bad language - needs to be eliminated.

[Kitchandro]

Maybe the rules are fine but the referees need help enforcing them ( a 4th and 5th official watching numerous TV angles would be better than have two "linesmen") and acceptance of those rules needs to be closer to absolute. Every decision is questioned during and after and general degenerate behaivour - cheating, answering back to hte ref, asking for fouls/bookings, bad language - needs to be eliminated.

I agree with the second part, but the fact is decisions are always going to be debateable - how many times have you watched a match with someone and despite numerous replays you've still disagreed with them about what a decision should have been, or haven't been sure yourself?

I'm all for goal-line technology but when you start getting TV screens involved in everything it becomes a bit silly, there's no guarantee the referee will get it right. I know this is a cliche phrase with regards to technology but where do you draw the line? So many decisions are disputed, are they going to stop and look at replays for everything?

Referees of course create injustices themselves at times and not always just through honest mistakes, often they make them because they are actually trying to avoid controversy and so they favour the home/defending team.

So before we start making all managers/players the villains lets remember there two sides to the coin, there are jobs and seasons on the line and people will get wound up when they feel cheated. I am in no way defending the Chelsea players nor do I think Clattenburg made any major errors in that game but it's hard for me to sympathise with referees.

People will happily lay into them at the match and in the post match thread calling them all the names under the sun but then we get onto threads like this and everyone feels sorry for them.

The referee does have the power the book and even send off players for doing all those things you mention, if he chooses not to use it then there is not much else anyone can do. I would make diving a sending off offence though.

[Mack]

I've been told that the accusations by the Chelsea players are bollocks.

A bit like some of Battenberg's and friends decisions during the game.

[leicsmac]

But it didn't go over the line, so how can a goal be awarded?

I think a sending off and a penalty is fair, he made his choice, he'd rather give the goalkeeper a chance to save the goal but make his team play a man less for the rest of the game.

I think the rules are fine.

Sorry, can't agree with this. I think such play (deliberately handballing the ball on the line on the chance your keeper will save the resultant penalty) is blatant cheating, and goes against the spirit of the game. And if it's late on in the game (like Suarez in the last World Cup), is it really a suitable penalty for the offence when a goal was certain to be scored? I mean, the vast vast majority of handball on the line incidents would have ended with the ball going in the goal if it hadn't been handled, and it's normally obvious to see that.

Book the player involved, give the goal. Use video tech to be sure the ball would have gone in if you like, but change the rules. Deliberately stopping a goal being scored in this way by foul play shouldn't mean the other team should even have the chance of being deprived of a rightful goal. It's actually one of the few areas that's pretty definitive in this way as a goal is going to be scored practically all of the time this occurs...hence the reason why it occurs. That's why I think a change of rules could work.

[Kitchandro]

Sorry, can't agree with this. I think such play (deliberately handballing the ball on the line on the chance your keeper will save the resultant penalty) is blatant cheating, and goes against the spirit of the game. And if it's late on in the game (like Suarez in the last World Cup), is it really a suitable penalty for the offence when a goal was certain to be scored? I mean, the vast vast majority of handball on the line incidents would have ended with the ball going in the goal if it hadn't been handled, and it's normally obvious to see that.

Book the player involved, give the goal. Use video tech to be sure the ball would have gone in if you like, but change the rules. Deliberately stopping a goal being scored in this way by foul play shouldn't mean the other team should even have the chance of being deprived of a rightful goal. It's actually one of the few areas that's pretty definitive in this way as a goal is going to be scored practically all of the time this occurs...hence the reason why it occurs. That's why I think a change of rules could work.

But the ball actually hasn't gone in, so I can't agree you should give a goal. What's the point in booking the player if you're going to give the goal anyway? His supposed infringement hasn't had a negative effect on the opposition at all. It is cheating, so a player should be punished for cheating. If he's a cheat he shouldn't poison the game by remaining on the pitch.

I'm never going to agree you should give goals just because you assume the ball would have gone over the line. If the ball doesn't physically go over the line, it shouldn't ever be a goal. That is the aim of football, to get the ball to go over the goal line. In fact that has the potential to create even more controversy, if it's less than obvious, then the referee has got to decide whether it would have gone in or not. And like I said in the other post, even video replays don't give you a definitive answer sometimes.

The opposition would surely consider the sending off and the penalty a more worthy punishment if they scored the penalty. And that is the risk you take if you decide to cheat.

[Samilktray]

Apparently David Luiz heard Clattenburg call Mikel a monkey. The guy can barely speak English

[marko]

Apparently David Luiz heard Clattenburg call Mikel a monkey. The guy can barely speak English

Never trust Sideshow Bob!

[AyewJoking]

stop arging amongst yourselves. the fa will sort it out

[Raj]

Heard on RAdio 5 this morning the only person to accuse Clattenburg is the guy who is trying to start the black players union.

He wasnt at the game...but cos of some doo lally McPherson law or whatever he felt he HAD to report it.

Is this country going completely stupid???

[Fox92]

I understand Clattenburg has been done before for money, but I don't know if I believe this. Just seems interesting that Chelsea are the club involved as well.

Anyway, I wish all this racism would stop taking over football now it's so annoying.

[Darkon84]

I understand Clattenburg has been done before for money, but I don't know if I believe this. Just seems interesting that Chelsea are the club involved as well.

Anyway, I wish all this racism would stop taking over football everything now, it's so annoying.

[Captain...]

But the ball actually hasn't gone in, so I can't agree you should give a goal. What's the point in booking the player if you're going to give the goal anyway? His supposed infringement hasn't had a negative effect on the opposition at all. It is cheating, so a player should be punished for cheating. If he's a cheat he shouldn't poison the game by remaining on the pitch.

I'm never going to agree you should give goals just because you assume the ball would have gone over the line. If the ball doesn't physically go over the line, it shouldn't ever be a goal. That is the aim of football, to get the ball to go over the goal line. In fact that has the potential to create even more controversy, if it's less than obvious, then the referee has got to decide whether it would have gone in or not. And like I said in the other post, even video replays don't give you a definitive answer sometimes.

The opposition would surely consider the sending off and the penalty a more worthy punishment if they scored the penalty. And that is the risk you take if you decide to cheat.

To the first question it is like going back a booking a player that has committed a foul but ref plays advantage, imagine a player is through on goal, gets scythed down from behind, booking, but the ball goes to the other attacker who scores a tap in. The foul hasn't stopped a goal, but it still deserves a booking. Likewise a clear handball on the line, you give the goal, because it should be a goal, so the handball hasn't prevented the goal, but he should still be booked for cheating.

The problem is there are 3 types of handball on the line, deliberate - Suarez; Instinctive - Moxey; Accidental.

If it could be easily determined then I would a goal for accidental, goal + yellow card for instinctive, goal + red card for deliberate.

To say a cheat shouldn't remain on the pitch would result in a lot of red cards for every deliberate, cynical foul, or handball anywhere else on the pitch.

I understand your point about it not being a goal, but you seem hard line on cheating, if it is always going to be given as a penalty goal then people won't do it, there would be no benefit, it is also much easier for a ref to award a penalty goal and not send someone off, than it is to award a penalty and send someone off.

I also like the idea that someone else mentioned, that a penalty should be given for taking someone out through on goal, and a yellow card, rather than a red card and a free kick outside the box.

I guess what I am saying is I would like to see more penalties and goals and less red cards.