Waggy

[muzzy1981]

I agree with Col, it is likely that he will be on his way, mostly due to the fact he probably desperate to leave.

I rate him and always will, with the right strike partner he can offer so much.

[Dickov22]

Waghorn is awful. Awful touch, can't hold the ball up, awful finisher. Just because Nugent is off form, doesn't mean this bloke is the answer. He's been here so long- doesn't anyone think he might have made it here by now, if he were good enough?!!

[Nick]

Neither is Schlupp, but he's still getting game time.

You'll get no disagreement here!

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Waghorn and Vardy if played up front together would compliment each other like fish and chips.

 

Yeah, just imagining all those missed chances is giving me a stalk-on.

[fleckneymike]

Good old who scored

 

Here is Waggy at Millwall

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/33889

 

Martyn Waghorn's Characteristics

+ Strengths

Aerial Duels

Strong

Through balls

Strong

- Weaknesses

Holding on to the ball

Weak

Passing

Weak

 

Martyn Waghorn's Style of Play

• Likes to cross
• Likes to play long balls
• Commits fouls often

and here is Nuge

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/7616

 

And Vardy

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/106981/Show/Jamie-Vardy

[Zingari]

Good old who scored

 

Here is Waggy at Millwall

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/33889

 

Martyn Waghorn's Characteristics

+ Strengths

Aerial Duels

Strong

Through balls

Strong

- Weaknesses

Holding on to the ball

Weak

Passing

Weak

 

Martyn Waghorn's Style of Play

• Likes to cross
• Likes to play long balls
• Commits fouls often

and here is Nuge

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/7616

 

And Vardy

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/106981/Show/Jamie-Vardy

Who decides if a player's particular attributes are weak or strong ?

[foxfanazer]

If he was happy to be a bench player I'd keep him. Better option than Schlupp up front imo

[fleckneymike]

Who decides if a player's particular attributes are weak or strong ?

 

I they complete a lot of crosses I'd say that was a strength. If they win a lot of headers I'd say that was a strength. If they completed very few passes I'd say that was a weakness.

[Zingari]

I they complete a lot of crosses I'd say that was a strength. If they win a lot of headers I'd say that was a strength. If they completed very few passes I'd say that was a weakness.

surely the difficulty of every pass can't be assessed though . for instance a player may make lots of 5 yard square ball  passes , while another player may be making more searching passes

 

I'm not trying to dismiss it outright , just a bit wary of stats like that 

[fleckneymike]

surely the difficulty of every pass can't be assessed though . for instance a player may make lots of 5 yard square ball  passes , while another player may be making more searching passes

 

I'm not trying to dismiss it outright , just a bit wary of stats like that 

 then one would ask why a player was repeatedly attempting difficult passes they never completed?

[Zingari]

 then one would ask why a player was repeatedly attempting difficult passes they never completed?

No not really , if a player completes 100% of his passes to team mates who are merely square on to him , it will look good in the stats , whereas a more creative player trying lots of searching through balls and wing play changes may only make 50% success rate. But anyone actually watching the game and not statistics obsessed would know which player was more valuable 

[fleckneymike]

No not really , if a player completes 100% of his passes to team mates who are merely square on to him , it will look good in the stats , whereas a more creative player trying lots of searching through balls and wing play changes may only make 50% success rate. But anyone actually watching the game and not statistics obsessed would know which player was more valuable 

 

Then that would be reflected in the key passes stat.

[Jimmy]

Neither is Schlupp, but he's still getting game time.

Schlupp has barely had a chance upfront though, most of his game time is at left back or wing, the same cannot be said of Waghorn, we don't really know if Schlupp is good enough upfront as he's never given half a chance to play there and settle in as a striker

[Zingari]

Then that would be reflected in the key passes stat.

Surely though it's only considered a "key pass" if it's successful .

A  player may attempt a probing , cross field or creative pass and a team mate not have the speed, ability or nous to latch on to it . Then it's counted as a bad pass , when in fact it might not be.

As an example , one of my all time favourite player , Gary McAlistair , would often attempt probing passes that weren't  always picked up on by a team mate , but fans could see his idea was good.

As I said earlier , I think that while stats might be useful , it's no match for the ability of a really good coach or tactician who'd easily pick up on  players worth to the team.

[fleckneymike]

Surely though it's only considered a "key pass" if it's successful .

A  player may attempt a probing , cross field or creative pass and a team mate not have the speed, ability or nous to latch on to it . Then it's counted as a bad pass , when in fact it might not be.

As an example , one of my all time favourite player , Gary McAlistair , would often attempt probing passes that weren't  always picked up on by a team mate , but fans could see his idea was good.

As I said earlier , I think that while stats might be useful , it's no match for the ability of a really good coach or tactician who'd easily pick up on  players worth to the team.

 

But when successful and leading ultimately to a goal it'd still count as a key pass. If that never happened then I suggest the passes were always 'bad' and ineffective.

 

Of the midfielders Drinkwater has the most accurate long passes per game at 4.5, of the midflieders he averages 10 more passes per game. Rather than dismissing the stats out of hand just see what they say and see if they tally with your opinions or even the average ratings given by posters on this site.

[hackneyfox]

Drinkwater with no assists.

Does being awarded the penalty not count?

[fleckneymike]

Drinkwater with no assists.

Does being awarded the penalty not count?

 

Nugent missed the pen

[hackneyfox]

I thought that was Drinkwater's second penalty of the season.

[Steve_Walsh5]

I thought that was Drinkwater's second penalty of the season.

I think you are right. Blackpool and Forest.

[sk3since03]

Really like Waghorn but if hitting the post and blazing it miles over the crossbar was the aim of the game he'd be up for the ballon d'Or! Feel his days are numbered here which is a shame

[Finnegan]

Surely though it's only considered a "key pass" if it's successful .

A player may attempt a probing , cross field or creative pass and a team mate not have the speed, ability or nous to latch on to it . Then it's counted as a bad pass , when in fact it might not be.

As an example , one of my all time favourite player , Gary McAlistair , would often attempt probing passes that weren't always picked up on by a team mate , but fans could see his idea was good.

As I said earlier , I think that while stats might be useful , it's no match for the ability of a really good coach or tactician who'd easily pick up on players worth to the team.

Could you not argue that a good midfielder would recognize the limitations of his team mates though?

[Zingari]

Could you not argue that a good midfielder would recognize the limitations of his team mates though?

That's quite true of course but i think that players with "footballing brains" make the sort of creative passes more on instinct with an expectation of other players spotting the openings.

 

This is all just massive speculation and waffle  on my part though   and my real point to Mike  is more about too greater reliance on statistics rather  actually just watching the player and taking a view based on actual situations 

[fleckneymike]

 

That's quite true of course but i think that players with "footballing brains" make the sort of creative passes more on instinct with an expectation of other players spotting the openings.

 

This is all just massive speculation and waffle  on my part though   and my real point to Mike  is more about too greater reliance on statistics rather  actually just watching the player and taking a view based on actual situations 

 

 

but I do watch the player, it just so happens that afterwards I want to see if what I thought I saw tallies with other points. If I think someone has played badly then I like to look at why that might be (or indeed whether my opinion has any basis beyond "true to me"). Pearson is a data fiend, as are most managers these days, its clear sometimes why he plays certain players or sticks with others when you burrow slightly into the numbers. The project at Man City where they've made all the Premier league stats available is fascinating.

[Rob1742]

Waghorn is a lower level championship player. He does have qualities, but not enough for a team who is looking to go up.

He misses far too many chances, despite being given chances in the team.

It is clear he is not right for us.

Jeff is a little younger, worth progressing with for a few years before he finds his level. Clear by the fact he was at Man U that his final level could be both higher or lower than he is now. Work in progress

[Russell sprout]

Schlupp has barely had a chance upfront though, most of his game time is at left back or wing, the same cannot be said of Waghorn, we don't really know if Schlupp is good enough upfront as he's never given half a chance to play there and settle in as a striker