Dan Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 Italy were utterly dreadful. If there's one thing Grandad's had a good point on it's the standard of our opposition. Both Italy and Uruguay are yet to genuinely impress me yet and we've managed to lose to both.
Dan Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 Er consistency? That video of Carrick was from one season, that is very consistent in my eyes, maybe if the World Cup was at the end of 12/13 season then things would of been a lot different, things could of been a lot different if Hodgson hadn't persisted with die hard Scotty Parker at Euro 2012 and instead opted for Michael Carrick, we will never know. Like I have said, three times now, I never once said Carrick was better than Pirlo, I said Carrick is similar to Pirlo but because of the style of English football and mainly English fans Carrick will never be appreciated in this country like Pirlo is in Italy. Carrick hasn't been good enough to play for England this season, terrible in fact for Man United. I just simply wanted to prove you wrong when you said "Carrick dreams of the passes Pirlo was making" Saturday night, that is all. You have said that I have said Carrick is better than Pirlo, which clearly isn't true. Showing 4 minutes of someone's best passes over even one season isn't exactly the sign of consistency though. That's all they are - highlights. If you made a video of Pirlo's from the season just gone I bet you could make it 20 minutes long. Highlights videos in no way shape or form prove consistency, especially when it comes to passing.
Grandad. Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 Showing 4 minutes of someone's best passes over even one season isn't exactly the sign of consistency though. That's all they are - highlights. If you made a video of Pirlo's from the season just gone I bet you could make it 20 minutes long. Highlights videos in no way shape or form prove consistency, especially when it comes to passing. The video was posted to show you Carrick's passing range, all kinds of passing and it was posted in comparison to your claim that "Carrick dreams of the passes Pirlo was making" Saturday night, that is all the videos were posted for, to prove that you were wrong, simple, admit you're wrong and we can move on.
Manwell Pablo Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 Michael Carrick can pass a ball. To say otherwise is totally incorrect. To mention him in the same breath as Andrea Pirlo is ridiculous. Pretty much end of chat.
Dan Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 The video was posted to show you Carrick's passing range, all kinds of passing and it was posted in comparison to your claim that "Carrick dreams of the passes Pirlo was making" Saturday night, that is all the videos were posted for, to prove that you were wrong, simple, admit you're wrong and we can move on. I'll admit I was wrong to say he dreams of the passes Pirlo was making. I'll change my statement to "makes those passes far less often than Pirlo, who is better". There. Conclusion reached.
Grandad. Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 Michael Carrick can pass a ball. To say otherwise is totally incorrect. To mention him in the same breath as Andrea Pirlo is ridiculous. Pretty much end of chat. Never said he was in the same breathe, just merely stated they're similar players, one is appreciated in one country because of the pace of the league and the style of the league and the other isn't appreciated because he isn't playing defence splitting balls every 5 minutes from 30 yards.
Manwell Pablo Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 Never said he was in the same breathe, just merely stated they're similar players, one is appreciated in one country because of the pace of the league and the style of the league and the other isn't appreciated because he isn't playing defence splitting balls every 5 minutes from 30 yards. I'd say one is appreciated more because he is much better at it than his counter part myself. Although I have to admit I think Pirlo would be a disaster in the Prem
Guest ttfn Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 Italy were utterly dreadful. If there's one thing Grandad's had a good point on it's the standard of our opposition. Both Italy and Uruguay are yet to genuinely impress me yet and we've managed to lose to both. Italy played very well against us last week, and England played well too. Probably the best game of the tournament in terms of the quality of the football played by both sides.
Guest Col city fan Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 I've only noticed this thread after we got knocked out. By Christ, it's full of gubbins!!!!
MC Prussian Posted 21 June 2014 Posted 21 June 2014 I've only noticed this thread after we got knocked out. By Christ, it's full of gubbins!!!! But why did you have to add some more?
Swarles Barkley Posted 22 June 2014 Posted 22 June 2014 Hear there is going to be an inquest over this years world cup failure. After every bleeding tournament we have an inquest, yet somehow in the next tournament we do worse! Surely the people who are doing the "inquesting" are not doing a very good job. Is it me or should there be an inquest to the inquest of the England football team to find the problem in finding the problem? And if this doesnt work then there should be an inquest into the inquest into the inquest . (I may be drunk but I hope this makes sense )
Dan Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 Until the FA tackle the problem (the Premier League) then we'll continue to be the way we are. If you think about the prestige of the Premier League and combine it with our dubious standard of coaching at grass roots level then it's no real surprise that you result in an under-achieving national side.
Beliall Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 When you play a bunch of millionare children who think theyre better than they are, you lose tournaments. Who are we to think we can go at italy? In the prem, they would keep shape and give fkin stoke respect, but in a world cup we think last 16 is a given? Mental
Ric Flair Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 Until the FA tackle the problem (the Premier League) then we'll continue to be the way we are. If you think about the prestige of the Premier League and combine it with our dubious standard of coaching at grass roots level then it's no real surprise that you result in an under-achieving national side. Exactly, it's not very difficult to see where the problems are. Until we increase the amount of qualified coaches by at least 100% and increase the amount of homegrown ENGLISH players that have to be in first team squads then we'll continue to disappoint. We also need a style of play that is drilled in to our future players from when they are young. We just aren't comfortable keeping possession for long periods of time, that has to be built up over years and years which must start when players are kids otherwise it doesn't become natural.
Corky Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 The press have actually tried to come up with new excuses and snipes after this particular elimination. In the past it's been "overpaid, pampered" (still seen that thrown about, although I think most have finally worked out that most world footballers are well paid), then we had PLAY THE KIDS (well, we did that) and recently we've had to try and copy any half decent side at a tournament- France, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, now we are on to Belgium, Germany and probably Costa Rica. So now the focus is on the training ground being too nice, not letting fans in to watch training, insulting the fans by backing the manager, and some fantastic U-turns and hindsights (taking too many kids, Milner should've played).
Bryn Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 Hart Johnson Cahill Terry Cole Henderson Carrick Gerrard Sterling Rooney Sturridge Would have got out the group IMO.
dobbylcfc Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 Hart Johnson Cahill Terry Cole Henderson Carrick Gerrard Sterling Rooney Sturridge Would have got out the group IMO. Would have started lalana instead of Henderson tbh but agree that side would of got out of the group
Grandad. Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 Would have started lalana instead of Henderson tbh but agree that side would of got out of the group You would play Lallana on the right of a midfield three when he doesn't play there? Makes sense.
Parafox Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 Until the FA tackle the problem (the Premier League) then we'll continue to be the way we are. If you think about the prestige of the Premier League and combine it with our dubious standard of coaching at grass roots level then it's no real surprise that you result in an under-achieving national side. I agree. The PL is awash with money to attract the worlds "best" players in order to keep it an attractive product that will sell rights worldwide. Foreign players see the PL as a cash cow and clubs need the big, mostly foreign players in order to survive in the PL so they pay the big bucks. It's a vicious circle (or catch 22 whichever way you look at it). As a result England will never be a viable world cup entity until this changes. The problem is that if you take the money out of the PL in favour of, say, the Bundesliga, then the whole thing will collapse.
Grandad. Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 I agree on the basis we need more coaches, the lack of coaches in this country is worrying but I don't agree it's all down to the Premier League. Our starting 11 in both games have had players who have played for clubs who have finished no lower than 7th, that could of been different as well if Hodgson didn't persist with playing Rooney and Welbeck. So the best that we currently have are playing for the best in the Premier League, they're not squad players, they are key starters for the better sides, granted Glen Johnson should be playing for a League 2 side. Minus the goalkeepers, there was no players in the England squad who finished no lower than 8th, and them three players look to be having a new club this summer, Lambert has joined Liverpool and Lallana is heavily linked with Liverpool (Prem Runners Up) and Luke Shaw is attracting the attention of Man City, Man United and Chelsea. So is it really the Premier League's fault we aren't producing better players? Seems to me that the best English players are playing for the better clubs. If the players were good enough they would get the chance to play at the big clubs and the foreign players wouldn't be brought in. It's what's underneath these Premier League clubs which is the problem, Spurs are paying silly money for foreign flops because their coaches and other coaches in this country aren't developing young lads into Premier League footballers. You've got Holland, been fantastic this tournament but they have players in their squad from Aston Villa, Norwich, Swansea, Fenerbache and FC Augsberg.
lgfualol Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 If the premier league was full of english players it would be so boring I'd want to move country.
Ric Flair Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 One other interesting aspect is we must be one of the only supposed top nations who has nearly every player of their squad playing in one country, our own. Why is that? In the last couple of decades we've seldom had many players leave the Premier League for one of the top european leagues but has this impacted on our under-achievement as well? The argument that we need more homegrown players coming through in England and a blueprint for these players to be nurtured in this country and bought up playing a certain way, are valid points that I have made myself but considering we already have all our players plying their trade in our country why are we failing so badly?Spain set about increasing their numbers of coaches by thousands and they have been World Beaters for the last several years yet there's a fair amount of their players playing in other countries. The same can be said of Germany and France back in the late 90's. There is more to it than keeping everything all closed off in this country with no foreigners allowed in and us suddenly cracking it.
Stadt Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 My stepdad became a qualified coach about 6 months ago and from reading and looking at that material it was evident the FA were focused on finding and nurturing a Messi or Ronaldo rather than implementing a certain system. The FA are the issue but they're spineless and are afraid to go against the premier league, which holds all of the power.
Grandad. Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 The FA having a small amount of coaches, compared to the numbers in Spain, France, Germany and I dare say Italy, has nothing to do with the Premier League I'm afraid.
DennisNedry Posted 23 June 2014 Posted 23 June 2014 Why does playing for a top side matter more than actual ability in terms of getting selected?
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