MPH Posted 1 March 2014 Posted 1 March 2014 Saddam was Sunni muslim, not Shia. Haha oops.. I often get them both mixed up...
Dr The Singh Posted 1 March 2014 Posted 1 March 2014 Are there many Russians in Leicester?! I didn't add a emoticon....sorry!! It's all relative!!
bovril Posted 1 March 2014 Posted 1 March 2014 I didn't add a emoticon....sorry!! It's all relative!! Meh, Russians, Polish, all the same. They all speak Eastern European.
Dr The Singh Posted 1 March 2014 Posted 1 March 2014 Meh, Russians, Polish, all the same. They all speak Eastern European. They all look the same to me.....you whites!!!
Strokes Posted 1 March 2014 Posted 1 March 2014 People say me and my brother look the same, bloody racists
MC Prussian Posted 1 March 2014 Posted 1 March 2014 Is it a coincidence that Russia held the Winter Olympics in... Sochi, a few hundred kilometers away from the Crimea? From what I understand, the Crimea, in itself an area with a moving past, has for centuries been mainly Russian, not Ukrainian.
MPH Posted 1 March 2014 Posted 1 March 2014 Is it a coincidence that Russia held the Winter Olympics in... Sochi, a few hundred kilometers away from the Crimea? From what I understand, the Crimea, in itself an area with a moving past, has for centuries been mainly Russian, not Ukrainian. It's swapped hands several times. As recently as 1994 Russia signed an agreement acknowledging that crimea was a legitimate part of the Ukraine and vowed not to violate it's sovereignty...
Deucalion Posted 2 March 2014 Author Posted 2 March 2014 Tweets from Russian speakers inside Ukraine being published by news agencies suggest their loyalty to mother Russia might be being overstated by Russia. If this is so, they need to protest to make this clear, as it would totally delegitimise Russia's position and show it for the geopolitical powerplay that it is. Also, Russian troops are disarming Ukrainian troops within Crimea. It's only a matter of time until the firing starts.
Jon the Hat Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 Putin is pissed off big time that the west is courting Ukraine, and rightly or wrongly sees it as a long term threat to Russia. Imagine Ukraine in NATO and US troops stationed in Kiev. Cold war all over again. Putin is not a man to let this ooportunity pass him by. He doesn't need an all out war, just enough pressure to make Ukraine realise it is not free to choose to join the Eu or NATO.
Leicester_Fox1884 Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 Ukraine is mobilising it's reserves & it's full time armed forces are on full combat readiness now so i can see a all out war between them which i imagine Russia will win because there generals & soldiers are more combat experienced than Ukraine's but us & NATO we should just stay out of it because if we're not careful this could escalate badly & we could be dragged in to a Third World War the Ukrainians should be aloud to rule there own country without Russian interference but do we really want a war over the old soviet republics ? i don't see any point in risking it over a country in Russia's backyard tbh
Deucalion Posted 2 March 2014 Author Posted 2 March 2014 Ukraine needs to have an election as soon as possible to prove the legitimacy or otherwise of the new government. Until this happens, claiming the Ukrainian government is the victim is on dodgy ground to some extent. However, the idea that Russia can intervene in the internal politics of neighbouring countries is pretty alarming too. Ideally, I would like the West to stick up for Ukraine, if it's new government can prove it's legitimacy across a broad base. But...to do so risks World War Three.
leicsmac Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 Careful diplomacy has to be the way to go here. For what its worth I can't see things escalating into full-on WWIII as neither Putin nor Obama are that stupid or suicidal, but the possibility of a local conventional conflict that costs a lot of lives is high. NATO need to open a dialogue with Moscow as soon as possible.
MPH Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 Putin is pissed off big time that the west is courting Ukraine, and rightly or wrongly sees it as a long term threat to Russia. Imagine Ukraine in NATO and US troops stationed in Kiev. Cold war all over again. Putin is not a man to let this ooportunity pass him by. He doesn't need an all out war, just enough pressure to make Ukraine realise it is not free to choose to join the Eu or NATO. Think you are spot on there. Putin is pretty much trying to re-establish the Soviet Union but in an economic entity only and sees Ukraine as vitally important to that. It's no surprise that this has come about straight after the new government announced closer ties with the E.U
MPH Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 Putin, a karate expert and Klitschko in a cage match would be very interesting to watch.. I'd probably even buy that on pay per view...
Leicester_Fox1884 Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 Ukraine needs to have an election as soon as possible to prove the legitimacy or otherwise of the new government. Until this happens, claiming the Ukrainian government is the victim is on dodgy ground to some extent. However, the idea that Russia can intervene in the internal politics of neighbouring countries is pretty alarming too. Ideally, I would like the West to stick up for Ukraine, if it's new government can prove it's legitimacy across a broad base. But...to do so risks World War Three. i agree if the Ukrainian government can prove it's a government that's been chose by the Ukrainian people then we need to help them but it's risky Russia doesn't like people involved with the old soviet republics they still want to control them like they have for hundreds of years & i personnely don't think Russia would give up it's influence & hold on the old soviet states with out a fight tbh
MPH Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 i agree if the Ukrainian government can prove it's a government that's been chose by the Ukrainian people then we need to help them but it's risky Russia doesn't like people involved with the old soviet republics they still want to control them like they have for hundreds of years & i personnely don't think Russia would give up it's influence & hold on the old soviet states with out a fight tbh You might be right.... but can Russia afford a full scale war? I have no doubt they would win one with the Ukraine, but financially there would be no one to help them get back on their feet- Ukraine have the E.U and IMF and united nations.... Ukraine is also ten times bigger than Georgia so it wont just be a case of walk in and have their own way if there was a war...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 The Ukraine is a country where former prime ministers dress like Imperial Navy officers in Star Wars. Who then, when out of power, get chucked in jail until the country rises up and lets them out again. I feel a great disturbance in the force. More seriously, interesting how the USA chucks troops into countries with "oil" who have been "invaded" by vastly inferior (to the US) armies, but seem to be pussyfooting around very delicately right now.
Leicester_Fox1884 Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 Careful diplomacy has to be the way to go here. For what its worth I can't see things escalating into full-on WWIII as neither Putin nor Obama are that stupid or suicidal, but the possibility of a local conventional conflict that costs a lot of lives is high. NATO need to open a dialogue with Moscow as soon as possible. i can't see it escalating in to that either that's just a worst case scenario & i can't see either of them being that stupid either but they could stumble in to it it's happened before the problem is Putin he likes to play the strong man & he don't strike me as the sort that backs down over things on his door step he's ex KGB so he still wants control over the old Soviet Union it could become a game of brinkmanship with the USA & Russia & throw NATO in & you've got trouble Russia still don't trust the west because of the Cold War i just hope it can be sorted out threw diplomacy insted of war
MPH Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 More seriously, interesting how the USA chucks troops into countries with "oil" who have been "invaded" by vastly inferior (to the US) armies, but seem to be pussyfooting around very delicately right now. Might have something to do with it being right on the door step of one of their biggest enemies....
Leicester_Fox1884 Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 You might be right.... but can Russia afford a full scale war? I have no doubt they would win one with the Ukraine, but financially there would be no one to help them get back on their feet- Ukraine have the E.U and IMF and united nations.... Ukraine is also ten times bigger than Georgia so it wont just be a case of walk in and have their own way if there was a war...if people boycott the gas from Russia because of it then no Russia can't afford it but Russia will blackmail the eu in to not getting involved with the gas that Europe relies on & it would be a hard fought victory for Russia with big losses if it was full scale the Ukrainians would fight them tooth & nail but i can see a civil war with the Russians backing one side & NATO another side more than a full scale war
ADK Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 I'm sure there'll be some sort of bloodshed. There already has. It's just a matter of how serious it is.
maynefox Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 All of this may have be avoided if that corrupt ousted PM just called a national referendum on ties to the West or East?Ukraine is split. Ukraine has every right to be in full mobilisation, I support this motion to an extent. Ukraine has its own sovereignty now, it is not the 1960s and they are an independent country. BUT it is quite clear that half of the country (give or take geographically) support the Russians. I am not buying Putin's "protecting Russia interests", from whom? Ethnic Russians are under no threat for their lives.Interesting what the next week brings, hopefully diplomacy.
MPH Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 if people boycott the gas from Russia because of it then no Russia can't afford it but Russia will blackmail the eu in to not getting involved with the gas that Europe relies on & it would be a hard fought victory for Russia with big losses if it was full scale the Ukrainians would fight them tooth & nail but i can see a civil war with the Russians backing one side & NATO another side more than a full scale war As has been mentioned earlier in the thread... all the more reason for us to embrace fracking and the independence from Russian energy supplies that would bring to their neighbors. They probably realize that too and that could be one factor that is causing them to put the squeeze on the Ukraine..
davieG Posted 2 March 2014 Posted 2 March 2014 Countries like Russian the USA and us to a lesser extent need to be involved in regular bouts of warfare to use up their stockpile of soon to be obsolescent weaponry so they can replace them with the latest designs. Saves them the cost of decommissioning them and provides feedback on their capabilities to enable them to identify improvements for the next generation of weaponry.
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