Terrorist Attacks

[Steven]

If there is any sort of manipulation of these events the "elite" are doing a pretty shit job of it, we are seeing Trump rise in America and a series of hard/far-right parties taking some sort of control in government's across Europe, all partly at least related to the increased security people believe we need.

 

If the idea was to use this to scare people into voting to maintain order they aren't making a very good job of it.

 

By Jove he's got it. The amount of time, money and effort spent on "counter terrorism" is disproportionate to the actual threat. 

[Webbo]

By Jove he's got it. The amount of time, money and effort spent on "counter terrorism" is disproportionate to the actual threat. 

What is the appropriate amount?

[leicsmac]

Well obviously there will be people saying vote for me and I'll stop the terrorists, just the same as there are people who say vote for me and I'll save the NHS, put up your benefits , cure the economy. That doesn't mean the media are exaggerating what's actually happening to favour some unnamed party.

 

I don't think they're exaggerating what's going on eg. the exact numbers of those arrested, but I do think they're exaggerating the nature and likelihood of the future threat compared to other life-threatening circumstances through sensationalism, because such sells more of their product.

 

'ISIS threat: 280 Arrested' for instance is a much better seller than 'Car Accidents: The 1,800 Deaths Per Year Menace', even though both are unnatural causes of death and one is much, much more statistically significant in terms of human fatalities than the other.

Edited 18 March 2016 by leicsmac

[Steven]

What is the appropriate amount?

 

The same amount of money spent on road traffic safety, accident and emergency services, cleaning up air pollution, disease prevention, air traffic safety, coastguard and so on. Generally these are all ways that people are more likely to die than "terrorism" and on the basis of the cost for each of these per person that is prevented from dying, that should be the same amount spent on those that are likely to die from "terrorism".

[Webbo]

I don't think they're exaggerating what's going on eg. the exact numbers of those arrested, but I do think they're exaggerating the nature and likelihood of the future threat compared to other life-threatening circumstances through sensationalism, because such sells more of their product.

 

'ISIS threat: 280 Arrested' for instance is a much better seller than 'Car Accidents: The 1,800 Deaths Per Year Menace', even though both are unnatural causes of death and one is much, much more statistically significant in terms of human fatalities than the other.

So there's no plot, exaggeration  or scare mongering? Glad we agree. 

The same amount of money spent on road traffic safety, accident and emergency services, cleaning up air pollution, disease prevention, air traffic safety, coastguard and so on. Generally these are all ways that people are more likely to die than "terrorism" and on the basis of the cost for each of these per person that is prevented from dying, that should be the same amount spent on those that are likely to die from "terrorism".

I could take you seriously if I didn't know you'd be blaming the govt when/if there's another atrocity.

[leicsmac]

So there's no plot, exaggeration  or scare mongering? Glad we agree. 

 

 

I thought I was pretty clear when I said that I thought they were exaggerating the nature of the threat in order to sell more of their product, using verifiable facts to do so.

 

Which of course ties into the self-interest thing mentioned before.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Sarah Abdeslam has allowed himself to be taken alive then, should've put money on that.

Spill the beans, lad

[Webbo]

Quite. I saw a break down of all the arrests and what subsequently happened and about 10% of them ended up in court. Frighten the sheeple. 

It's just scaremongering.

[yorkie1999]

So whats the answer.

[Buce]

So whats the answer.

What's the question?

[steveherbe]

Cameron, Merkel and the rest of our inept leaders must be so proud of how they've allowed these Muslim terrorists masquerading as 'refugees' to infiltrate mainland Europe. Send every last one of them back and let them fight for their own countries. Oh, wait, we dont know where the majority of the pricks are, cos we let any fooker in to wander around as they please. Cameron, Merkel, the Brussels blood is on your hands.

Just my opinion of course, to which I am entitled

[Rincewind]

It has also been the opinion of many leaders over the centuries. Some  have even convinced their people to think the same.

What a wonderful world we live in.

[MC Prussian]

Cameron, Merkel and the rest of our inept leaders must be so proud of how they've allowed these Muslim terrorists masquerading as 'refugees' to infiltrate mainland Europe. Send every last one of them back and let them fight for their own countries. Oh, wait, we dont know where the majority of the pricks are, cos we let any fooker in to wander around as they please. Cameron, Merkel, the Brussels blood is on your hands.

Just my opinion of course, to which I am entitled

 

I don't see the connections.

 

What would you suggest each EU country does?

Ask every single refugee at the point of entry: "Sir/madam, are you a terrorist or do you intend on becoming radicalized in the near or distant future?".

 

There's always a minority of loonies that spoil it for the rest and it is no different with the Muslim community across Europe (and North America).

 

One of the main issues here is the unwillingness of the secret services in Europe cooperating professionally and willfully. They still all adhere to their own customs and procedures and up to this day, Interpol aside, they share no common platform or movement in the hunt for criminals (not just Muslim terrorists).

For instance, I've read about investigators in Spain desperately trying to solve crimes on their own instead of seeking assistance abroad.

[Bob Hazels shorts]

The more I see and read of the Belgium incident the more inept the authorities seem.

Obvious that something would be attempted more so after last weeks arrest and the targets were obvious also.

There should be no need to go into an airport unless travelling, luggage scanned on entry and documents checked +'passport details needed when buying tickets.

Random bag checks and scanners on public transport.

Both measures I have come across many times.

Farcical that two suspects known to police and the third also known and positively linked to the Paris attracts are allowed to stroll into an airport. Picked up on CCTV but information only used after an event, are the CCTV monitored? Why the silly hat whilst what appears to be in doors?

Can be argued the problem would just move but at least make it difficult

[Manwell Pablo]

Facebook hilarious, full of people who changed their profile picture to a French flag in a flash in November now being critical of it calling it "easy" and saying their are better ways to show your support. I'd love to know what's changed so much in 5 months!

[TiffToff88]

Cameron, Merkel and the rest of our inept leaders must be so proud of how they've allowed these Muslim terrorists masquerading as 'refugees' to infiltrate mainland Europe. Send every last one of them back and let them fight for their own countries. Oh, wait, we dont know where the majority of the pricks are, cos we let any fooker in to wander around as they please. Cameron, Merkel, the Brussels blood is on your hands.

Just my opinion of course, to which I am entitled

 

The Brussels terror attacks were carried out by Belgian nationals. THEY WERE BORN IN BELGIUM! they were nothing to do with refugees or immigrants. They were the kind of people these immigrants are trying to get away from

[Dr The Singh]

The Brussels terror attacks were carried out by Belgian nationals. THEY WERE BORN IN BELGIUM! they were nothing to do with refugees or immigrants. They were the kind of people these immigrants are trying to get away from

Ajoub El Khazzani who was based in Brussels and part of the Paris attacks last year was a Morrocan immigrant..........however the scariest thing is that these people were Belgium citizens, and with the free movement of the EU, could possibly have targeted Britian!!

[Guest MattP]

The Brussels terror attacks were carried out by Belgian nationals. THEY WERE BORN IN BELGIUM! they were nothing to do with refugees or immigrants. They were the kind of people these immigrants are trying to get away from

 

As Singh as already said El Khazzani was a Morroccan immigrant.

 

Najib Laachraoui was in Syria himself in 2013 and snuck back into Europe before meeting Absalem in Budapest before heading back to Molenbeek, Abboaud managed to get back into Europe having travelled with a boatload of refugees and Choukri came back into Europe after arriving in Lesbos on a fake Syrian passport.

 

We'll find out more about the others involved in yesterday's attacks but these people are clearly using the Schengen area and the refugee crisis to their advantage in organising these attacks and travelling to and from Syria.

[Bettsj2]

Shock horror.

Bunch of ***** want to kill everyone and take over the world.

Been happening for centuries people. Dont

Concern yourself with it. Just go where you wanna go, do what you wanna do with whoever you want to do it with.

If some **** wants to blow you up for no reason, **** it. What you gonna do? Stay in your house forever?

You cant change these people, nobody can. If they have it in their head its a good idea then you, me, politicians, community leaders, priests, butchers, bakers, candlestick makers arent gonna stop them.

Twenty years from now, Islamic fundamentalists will be a thing of the past and it'll be some other wacko group causing shit.

History just repeats itself with this crap in one guise or another. The end message is the same, just different colours and different reasons. In the end though, the many outweigh the few and this stuff just dies out.

Its shit that people die, but throughout history, since time began, people have been getting killed and society evolves and moves on. Its the only constant along with greed that history continuously repeats.

Too much credit is given to these organisations. They're a basic ragtag bunch who dont really have a long term plan they just want to fvck stuff up. It doesnt work. It never has and never will (terrorism that is). These groups get wiped one by one until eventually, their recruitment halts because no matter how dissalusioned someone might be, they realise that actually, these actions have no reaction. Charlie Ebdo still write their articles, people still use airports and go to gigs.

The price for the penny to drop is always high but the penny will always drop. Just takes time.

Edited 23 March 2016 by Bettsj2

[Webbo]

Shock horror.

Bunch of ***** want to kill everyone and take over the world.

Been happening for centuries people. Dont

Concern yourself with it. Just go where you wanna go, do what you wanna do with whoever you want to do it with.

If some **** wants to blow you up for no reason, **** it. What you gonna do? Stay in your house forever?

You cant change these people, nobody can. If they have it in their head its a good idea then you, me, politicians, community leaders, priests, butchers, bakers, candlestick makers arent gonna stop them.

 

They've obviously stopped some and I don't see the harm in trying to stop others.

[Wymsey]

Two guilty over London 'drive-by' plot...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35884915

[Bettsj2]

They've obviously stopped some and I don't see the harm in trying to stop others.

Which is great. Stop as many plots, drop as many bombs, just dont expect to change the world.

[Carl the Llama]

Ajoub El Khazzani who was based in Brussels and part of the Paris attacks last year was a Morrocan immigrant..........however the scariest thing is that these people were Belgium citizens, and with the free movement of the EU, could possibly have targeted Britian!!

Rubbish.

 

He could target Britain, but we have UK border control and - if some are to believed - one of the best counter-terrorism units in the world.  If a terrorist eludes both of those to get inside the country without being picked up on I don't see how it can be blamed on EU freedom of movement laws.  It's already been shown that terrorists attacking the UK will most likely be people born and radicalised within the country anyway.  You could understand French citizens post-Paris making that argument given their complete lack of a border and the reports that the Paris attackers travelled by car from Belgium but a British citizen doing so makes no sense.

[Dr The Singh]

Rubbish.

 

He could target Britain, but we have UK border control and - if some are to believed - one of the best counter-terrorism units in the world.  If a terrorist eludes both of those to get inside the country without being picked up on I don't see how it can be blamed on EU freedom of movement laws.  It's already been shown that terrorists attacking the UK will most likely be people born and radicalised within the country anyway.  You could understand French citizens post-Paris making that argument given their complete lack of a border and the reports that the Paris attackers travelled by car from Belgium but a British citizen doing so makes no sense.

I would have thought the words 'could' and 'possibly' would suggest that it would not be a walk in the park.  As much as our anti terrorist units are great, it RUBBISH and STUPID to suggest were not impregnable and it's already proven that european agencies are overstretched, the belgium authorities are already crying in there bowls.  These agencies that provide the intel to british agencies..........gaps in information, gaps in intel leads to breakages in the system........I would have thought this would have been obvious!!!

[Carl the Llama]

I would have thought the words 'could' and 'possibly' would suggest that it would not be a walk in the park.  As much as our anti terrorist units are great, it RUBBISH and STUPID to suggest were not impregnable and it's already proven that european agencies are overstretched, the belgium authorities are already crying in there bowls.  These agencies that provide the intel to british agencies..........gaps in information, gaps in intel leads to breakages in the system........I would have thought this would have been obvious!!!

Nobody's suggesting we're impregnable but the notion that Europe's freedom of movement laws should be considered a chief cause for concern regarding UK national security is disingenuous when that's generally not where UK terrorists come from and when we've staunchly defended our right to control our own borders for this very reason amongst others.

 

Movement within the Schengen area is a genuine cause for concern regarding terrorist activity within the countries signed up to it but once you get to a closed border, particularly one into the most heavily CCTV monitored country in Europe (in the world even?), you lose the right to make that argument.  Any terrorist attacks in a closed border state are because that state's counter-terrorism policies failed.  Presuming anything can be blamed at all - sometimes you simply can't monitor everything and everyone.