Terrorist Attacks

[Buce]

I love it how Thrac puts in "three generations", as if he wanted to avoid being counted because of his own part-foreign ancestors.

You just can't make it up.

It's remarkable how the kind of people who make a big deal about their racial purity, are always the kind of people you wouldn't to share a room with, much less an ancestry. Edited 25 March 2016 by Buce

[Thracian]

So Alf Bentley and I (and I imagine many more on here) are not to be considered British? We shouldn't have the right to a passport because our forefathers (in my case my grandfather) weren't here three generations ago?

I used to think you were just a long-winded, though essentially harmless, buffoon, but you are actually seriously sinister.

Do us all a favour and take your hate-speech back to the Britain First facebook page, where it - and you - belongs.

 

 

 

Stop being alarmist. If you're from the UK you're British, but what exactly's the problem with a provisional citizenship, whatever the timescale?.  

 

Obey the law and don't show yourself as presenting a danger and provisional citizens would have no problems living here like anyone else. If I wanted to move to China - or Eire - and was offered a provisional citizenship I'd have no problem with it whatsoever. Quite the contrary. I'd be glad of their caution.

 

And if some people have moved here to get away from fanatics then, given how simple it would be to revoke citizenship in the event of serious crime, those fanatics would be less likely to be here and everyone including the latter would be safer perhaps even as it used to be before all the irresponsible changes left our streets full of security cameras and our railways, airports, buses and other gathering places a source of permanent concern.    

 

Have I devalued your father's service to Britain and that of his two brothers - not at all? Nor would I dream of it. 

 

Maybe they too would have been appalled to see what successive politicians have given away for all their efforts because I known mine would. I do put Britain first - which as far as I'm aware includes Northern Ireland, at least according to my oldest son's Belfast-born wife whose family lost an employee to a Republican bomb. It also includes Wales and Scotland. 

 

Why would i want the present scenario to continue?.

Or the EU in Brussels to be calling the tune?

 

Seems to be they had more than enough intelligence to have dealt with much of the latest situation before it happened but, for whatever reasons, and doubtless with at least some consideration of the ridiculous Human Rights legislation, they didn't act effectively and would therefore seem at least partly responsible for the carnage that came about.

 

And not for the first time. Indeed it seems part of the same pattern.

 

But,  no matter how often,  almost everyone regrets the consequences but offers no answers.

 

As I've said, if you've got solutions, I'm all ears.

Edited 25 March 2016 by Thracian

[Thracian]

Yeah me too. The provisional citizenship thing sounds interesting though, I wonder if we'll get a badge through the post. Although my mum's family is from Sweden, which I'm going to guess sits better with thracian than some other countries might.

Hugely ironic he chooses Belgium as an example considering it's a relatively new, multi lingual nation in itself.

What a wally.

 

 

Yes, they're loving the situation in Sweden! Victims of their own reasonableness as far as I can see and Norway even worse.  

Edited 25 March 2016 by Thracian

[Rincewind]

Reports on deputy leader of ISIS killed That will scare them.

 

https://www.rt.com/news/337190-isis-deputy-leader-killed/

[Buce]

Stop being alarmist. If you're from the UK you're British, but what exactly's the problem with a provisional citizenship, whatever the timescale?.

That is not what you said. Your criteria for being considered 'British' was three generations. Since my paternal grandfather was Irish - and Ireland is not a part of the UK - you consider me to be 'not British'.

Obey the law and don't show yourself as presenting a danger and provisional citizens would have no problems living here like anyone else. If I wanted to move to China - or Eire - and was offered a provisional citizenship I'd have no problem with it whatsoever. Quite the contrary. I'd be glad of their caution.

And if some people have moved here to get away from fanatics then, given how simple it would be to revoke citizenship in the event of serious crime, those fanatics would be less likely to be here and everyone including the latter would be safer perhaps even as it used to be before all the irresponsible changes left our streets full of security cameras and our railways, airports, buses and other gathering places a source of permanent concern.

Have I devalued your father's service to Britain and that of his two brothers - not at all? Nor would I dream of it.

Yes, you most certainly have. My father and his brothers were born here and never considered themselves to be anything other than British. According to your criteria they never were. And my family's sacrifice wasn't a 'service to Britain' - they fought to preserve a way of life that was under threat from people just like you.

Maybe they too would have been appalled to see what successive politicians have given away for all their efforts because I known mine would. I do put Britain first - which as far as I'm aware includes Northern Ireland, at least according to my oldest son's Belfast-born wife whose family lost an employee to a Republican bomb. It also includes Wales and Scotland.

Ah, so an arbitrary line on a map seperates the 'good Irish' from the bad.. I see.

Why would i want the present scenario to continue?.

Or the EU in Brussels to be calling the tune?

Seems to be they had more than enough intelligence to have dealt with much of the latest situation before it happened but, for whatever reasons, and doubtless with at least some consideration of the ridiculous Human Rights legislation, they didn't act effectively and would therefore seem at least partly responsible for the carnage that came about.

And not for the first time. Indeed it seems part of the same pattern.

But, no matter how often, almost everyone regrets the consequences but offers no answers.

As I've said, if you've got solutions, I'm all ears.

Edited 25 March 2016 by Buce

[Thracian]

So Alf Bentley and I (and I imagine many more on here) are not to be considered British? We shouldn't have the right to a passport because our forefathers (in my case my grandfather) weren't here three generations ago?

I used to think you were just a long-winded, though essentially harmless, buffoon, but you are actually seriously sinister.

Do us all a favour and take your hate-speech back to the Britain First facebook page, where it - and you - belongs.

 

 

 

Hate speech? What an utterly contrived comment.

 

But then it's clear that free speech in this country is wilfully shat on because the so many failed arguments are being desperately defended - as is so plainly illustrated day after day with the endless attrocities and the way we all have to watch our backs nowadays in one way or another.

 

What I hate is to see people's gullibility whether it be for political or religious idealism or anything else that leaves despair in its wake.

 

Ironically, I've always thought in terms of equality for all the hypocrites that associates me with.

 

I even wondered if the  "rights and equality" legions could be right.

 

But, really, human groups have always been about power and domination and it's a myth to imagine anything different or that "equality" will ever truthfully rise to the top and stay there within a system that is truly fair yet still offers incentive. 

 

And right now, the kind of muddled leadership and thinking that prevails is fermenting more and more trouble in countless directions, when you can fathom a way through the contradictions.

 

And the "rights and equality legions" don't care enough to back down and think again for all that the endless dead bodies and long-term injuries (not just in Brussels but elsewhere) should be speaking loudly enough for rethinkl.   

[MC Prussian]

Yes, they're loving the situation in Sweden! Victims of their own reasonableness as far as I can see and Norway even worse.  

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the terror in Sweden or Norway has little to nothing to do with what's going on in Belgium right now.

Also, the one and only bomb attack in Stockholm in 2010 claimed exactly one casualty, the bomber itself.

 

Apart from that Breivik nutter (a white supremacist), what's terror been like in Norway, anyway? Care to elaborate?

 

Stats and facts, please. And no more of that scaremongering and populist nonsense.

Edited 25 March 2016 by MC Prussian

[Buce]

Hate speech? What an utterly contrived comment.

But then it's clear that free speech in this country is wilfully shat on because the so many failed arguments are being desperately defended - as is so plainly illustrated day after day with the endless attrocities and the way we all have to watch our backs nowadays in one way or another.

What I hate is to see people's gullibility whether it be for political or religious idealism or anything else that leaves despair in its wake.

Ironically, I've always thought in terms of equality for all the hypocrites that associates me with.

I even wondered if the "rights and equality" legions could be right.

But, really, human groups have always been about power and domination and it's a myth to imagine anything different or that "equality" will ever truthfully rise to the top and stay there within a system that is truly fair yet still offers incentive.

And right now, the kind of muddled leadership and thinking that prevails is fermenting more and more trouble in countless directions, when you can fathom a way through the contradictions.

And the "rights and equality legions" don't care enough to back down and think again for all that the endless dead bodies and long-term injuries (not just in Brussels but elsewhere) should be speaking loudly enough for rethinkl.

It's people like you that this country could do without. You're a fvcking embarrassment.

I'd love to know what your Polish daughter-in-law has to say when she learns that you don't regard her children - your grandchildren - as British.

[Rincewind]

It is not equality when you consider a member of the human species to be less worthy than yourself

[Nick]

It's people like you that this country could do without. You're a fvcking embarrassment.

I'd love to know what your Polish daughter-in-law has to say when she learns that you don't regard her children - your grandchildren - as British.

The irony

[Alf Bentley]

So Alf Bentley and I (and I imagine many more on here) are not to be considered British? We shouldn't have the right to a passport because our forefathers (in my case my grandfather) weren't here three generations ago?

I used to think you were just a long-winded, though essentially harmless, buffoon, but you are actually seriously sinister.

Do us all a favour and take your hate-speech back to the Britain First facebook page, where it - and you - belongs.

 

 

I've been in too many stupid arguments recently, so will avoid this one....except to have a laugh at some of the complications of Thracian's 3-generation citizenship scheme.

Family history is one of my interests, so I know a lot about my ancestors....

 

- I had 1 English-born parent, 1 Irish-born; 3 out of 4 grandparents were Irish-born - but at a time when Ireland was all still in the UK; all 8 great-grandparents were born in Ireland (when it was still the UK), but 2 in what is now N. Ireland; 2 of my great-great-grandparents were English/Scottish and both families served in the forces during the Crimean War. Perhaps someone could work out whether or not I'm British? 

 

- My Dad was born in Ireland under the Irish Free State, but his eldest brother was born when Ireland was still in the UK (& served in WW2

 

- My brother has 2 sons by 2 different women. The first is by a woman whose family are of English heritage as far as I know, but the second is by a woman of Ghanaian family. Presumably his hypothetical offspring would become British a generation later than his half-brother's, would they? Plus, his mother was born in London, but her 2 elder sisters were born in Ghana....how would that work? 

 

There is SOME sense to the 3-generation concept, in terms of cultural self-identification (I feel some identification with Ireland as well as Britain/England), but not as a citizenship scheme, surely? Still less does it determine loyalty - there have been plenty of loyal people of immigrant stock and traitors of long-home-grown heritage 

[Strokes]

I'm pretty sure if you go back three generations most people would have some other nationality present , our family always keeps an old French family name as either a forename or middle name in each generation.

[Webbo]

Not my family, we've been boringly English for generations. My mother claimed some Romany ancestry but God know how long ago that was.

[Jattdogg]

Guess im not a citizen of any country. Born in england to a mother of complete english ancestry for many generations and to a indian born father that was raised in england from about 3 years of age. Grew up in Canada. Im not wanted by anyone

[leicsmac]

I think some of the anecdotes on this page show exactly how ridiculous the 'nationality' debate as it pertains to previous generations and people actions today is.

 

As Alf said, long ancestry of one particular nation is no guarantee of loyalty, nor is short any guarantee of treachery...and given the world today, and especially the way it is likely to be in the future, peoples ancestry is going to become more and more 'mixed' and the subsequent arguments regarding 'pure' national ancestry more and more absurd.

[marko]

And if some people have moved here to get away from fanatics then, given how simple it would be to revoke citizenship in the event of serious crime, those fanatics would be less likely to be here and everyone including the latter would be safer perhaps even as it used to be before all the irresponsible changes left our streets full of security cameras and our railways, airports, buses and other gathering places a source of permanent concern.   

 

I don't think the "fanatics" will be particularly concerned about having their citizenship revoked once they've blow themselves and countless others into the next life.

[theessexfox]

No one mentioned the Lahore attacks? Horrendous news.

[bovril]

Awful scenes. Targeting a playground full of women and children because of their religion is simply barbaric.

[Alf Bentley]

Awful scenes. Targeting a playground full of women and children because of their religion is simply barbaric.

 

 

Indeed. Also, on a much smaller but more local scale, the religiously-motivated murder of the Glasgow shopkeeper: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/family-murdered-glasgow-shopkeeper-asad-7636997#POshYG0KuzD5KDo3.97

Unless revealed otherwise, it sounds as if he was a Muslim who had an open, generous attitude to locals of other faiths and was targeted by some Islamist fanatic for that reason. There are some very warped people out there, even if a small minority.

 

On a lighter note, I've just noticed the change in your location, Bovril: "Sofia" -> "Sofa" 

[MPH]

Read an article yesterday in which a top ranking ISIS official is quoted as saying that the Brussels and Paris attacks are in preparation for ' something very big' in the United states.....

[Wymsey]

Didn't they say about that with the UK?

 

Is probably currently an 'all talk' warning with nothing going to happen in the near-future.

[bovril]

What are we waiting for, assembled in the forum?

[Buce]

I'm pretty sure if you go back three generations most people would have some other nationality present , our family always keeps an old French family name as either a forename or middle name in each generation.

Clouseau?

[AKCJ]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/12206884/British-passenger-took-a-cheeky-picture-with-the-EgyptAir-hijacker.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&sf23332732=1

 

[bovril]

"He was a big rugby guy and into his banter".

 

Oh what japes.