Depression

[Devonfox1884]

36 minutes ago, That_Dude said:

Frankly, I've hit a wall, and won't get out of this on my own this time. I feel absolutely dead inside.

 

Time to seek for professional help, I think.

 

Brilliant that you can identify that for yourself mate, that really is very important. 
 

In the meantime, if I can be of any help, even if it’s just to chat about things, or the atrocity that was yesterday’s game, you know where I am 👊

[urban.spaceman]

Stacy Dooley doc about people on the Psych ward on BBC2 now. 
 

Harrowing to see what people are going through. Quite a bit resonates with me to be honest. 

[Buce]

Psilocybin: Magic mushroom compound 'promising' for depression

Psychedelic drug psilocybin, found in magic mushrooms, is as good at reducing symptoms of depression as conventional treatment, a small, early-stage study has suggested.

But when it comes to actively improving people's well-being and ability to feel pleasure, the psychedelic drug may have had a more powerful effect.

Psychedelics are being studied for a range of mental-health conditions.

But experts caution that this is a small trial with more research needed.

For the past three decades, since Prozac hit the market, new drugs for depression and anxiety have generally been variations on the same theme.

Yet for a considerable chunk of people they cause undesirable side-effects, stop working over time or don't work in the first place.

The psilocybin trial's leaders said there was appetite for "novel" treatments that took a different approach.

The trial's 59 participants were given either psilocybin or a common antidepressant called a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI).

The scientists from Imperial College London's Centre for Psychedelic Research measured participants' mood and functioning using a number of different measures.

Their primary measure scores people's symptoms of depression based on their answers to questions about sleep, energy, appetite, mood and suicidal thoughts.

These questions are largely negatively focused: they ask whether someone is feeling sad, but not whether they are feeling happy.

By this measure, psilocybin performed as well as a conventional antidepressant - an SSRI called escitalopram.

All 59 participants saw comparable reductions in their depressive symptoms.

But on several other measures - though they weren't the scientists' primary focus - the psychedelic drug performed considerably better.

That includes measures of work and social functioning, mental well-being and the ability to feel happy.

The study is among the first to pit the psychedelic head-to-head with a traditional depression treatment - and to open the trial to anyone with moderate-to-severe depression, not just those for whom all other treatments had failed.

 

'No quantum leap'

As well as being a small trial, though, this represents a relatively early phase in the research, so more studies will be needed to prove this effect.

And the study is "not a quantum leap", according to Guy Goodwin, professor of psychiatry at the University of Oxford.

"It is under-powered and does not prove that psilocybin is a better treatment than standard treatment with escitalopram for major depression.

"However, it offers tantalising clues that it may be".

It adds to the growing body of research suggesting psychedelics could be a viable alternative treatment for depression, anxiety, substance misuse and other common conditions.

And, Prof Goodwin added, the work "underlines the broader point that research in depression has been too driven by ratings of particular symptoms rather than the return of positive mood and patient well-being".

SSRIs like fluoxetine (the generic name for Prozac), citalopram, escitalopram and sertraline are the drugs doctors will reach for first when treating depression and anxiety.

 

'Emotional blunting'

They are thought to work on the brain's stress system, muting responses, which can "take the edge off", study author Dr Robin Carhart-Harris explained, making painful emotions easier to bear.

But they don't necessarily help people "feel great," he said - and for some the drugs blunt all emotions, both positive and negative.

This emotional blunting can be an unwelcome side-effect.

On the other hand, psilocybin seems to work on receptors in the brain associated with "re-ordering" the way we think about things.

Dr Carhart-Harris said that after psychedelic therapy, participants reported feeling "recalibrated, reset like they haven't for years" and "enjoying life".

• Psychedelic therapy could 'reset' depressed brain

"They get more at the root cause of suffering [rather than] plastering over or muting their symptoms."

People in the psilocybin treatment group also experienced fewer of the side-effects that often bother people taking SSRIs: drowsiness, sexual dysfunction and dry mouth.

They did have more of the transient symptoms, such as headaches on the day after receiving the drug, though.

And the experience of the "trip" itself was not easy, the study's co-author Prof David Nutt explained. "This is hard, hard work. It's often very challenging."

Those being given psilocybin received two relatively high doses of the drug, three weeks apart, while people on the escitalopram arm of the study took that pill every day for six weeks.

Both groups were given therapy.

Prof Nutt said the therapy was "as important as the drug action" - the scientists are anxious to warn against people trying to self-medicate.

"It's not the drug alone. We're not sure the drug alone would have an intrinsic antidepressant effect," he said.

In order to try to "blind" people as to which group they were in - to prevent their expectations altering how they responded to the medication - those on the psychedelic arm were given a daily placebo pill and those on the SSRI arm had two guided sessions during which they were given 1mg of psilocybin (not enough to have a real effect).

For obvious reasons, it is quite challenging to "blind" people to whether or not they've received a large dose of psychedelics.

But Dr Carhart-Harris said other studies suggested people continued to feel better for months after psilocybin treatment, making it unlikely to be just the effect of positive expectations.

The participants in the Imperial study are being followed up for six months after their initial six-week treatment.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56745139

Edited 15 April 2021 by Buce

[Stoopid]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

Psilocybin: Magic mushroom compound 'promising' for depression

Psychedelic drug psilocybin, found in magic mushrooms, is as good at reducing symptoms of depression as conventional treatment, a small, early-stage study has suggested.

But when it comes to actively improving people's well-being and ability to feel pleasure, the psychedelic drug may have had a more powerful effect.

Psychedelics are being studied for a range of mental-health conditions.

But experts caution that this is a small trial with more research needed.

For the past three decades, since Prozac hit the market, new drugs for depression and anxiety have generally been variations on the same theme.

Yet for a considerable chunk of people they cause undesirable side-effects, stop working over time or don't work in the first place.

The psilocybin trial's leaders said there was appetite for "novel" treatments that took a different approach.

The trial's 59 participants were given either psilocybin or a common antidepressant called a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI).

The scientists from Imperial College London's Centre for Psychedelic Research measured participants' mood and functioning using a number of different measures.

Their primary measure scores people's symptoms of depression based on their answers to questions about sleep, energy, appetite, mood and suicidal thoughts.

These questions are largely negatively focused: they ask whether someone is feeling sad, but not whether they are feeling happy.

By this measure, psilocybin performed as well as a conventional antidepressant - an SSRI called escitalopram.

All 59 participants saw comparable reductions in their depressive symptoms.

But on several other measures - though they weren't the scientists' primary focus - the psychedelic drug performed considerably better.

That includes measures of work and social functioning, mental well-being and the ability to feel happy.

The study is among the first to pit the psychedelic head-to-head with a traditional depression treatment - and to open the trial to anyone with moderate-to-severe depression, not just those for whom all other treatments had failed.

 

'No quantum leap'

As well as being a small trial, though, this represents a relatively early phase in the research, so more studies will be needed to prove this effect.

And the study is "not a quantum leap", according to Guy Goodwin, professor of psychiatry at the University of Oxford.

"It is under-powered and does not prove that psilocybin is a better treatment than standard treatment with escitalopram for major depression.

"However, it offers tantalising clues that it may be".

It adds to the growing body of research suggesting psychedelics could be a viable alternative treatment for depression, anxiety, substance misuse and other common conditions.

And, Prof Goodwin added, the work "underlines the broader point that research in depression has been too driven by ratings of particular symptoms rather than the return of positive mood and patient well-being".

SSRIs like fluoxetine (the generic name for Prozac), citalopram, escitalopram and sertraline are the drugs doctors will reach for first when treating depression and anxiety.

 

'Emotional blunting'

They are thought to work on the brain's stress system, muting responses, which can "take the edge off", study author Dr Robin Carhart-Harris explained, making painful emotions easier to bear.

But they don't necessarily help people "feel great," he said - and for some the drugs blunt all emotions, both positive and negative.

This emotional blunting can be an unwelcome side-effect.

On the other hand, psilocybin seems to work on receptors in the brain associated with "re-ordering" the way we think about things.

Dr Carhart-Harris said that after psychedelic therapy, participants reported feeling "recalibrated, reset like they haven't for years" and "enjoying life".

• Psychedelic therapy could 'reset' depressed brain

"They get more at the root cause of suffering [rather than] plastering over or muting their symptoms."

People in the psilocybin treatment group also experienced fewer of the side-effects that often bother people taking SSRIs: drowsiness, sexual dysfunction and dry mouth.

They did have more of the transient symptoms, such as headaches on the day after receiving the drug, though.

And the experience of the "trip" itself was not easy, the study's co-author Prof David Nutt explained. "This is hard, hard work. It's often very challenging."

Those being given psilocybin received two relatively high doses of the drug, three weeks apart, while people on the escitalopram arm of the study took that pill every day for six weeks.

Both groups were given therapy.

Prof Nutt said the therapy was "as important as the drug action" - the scientists are anxious to warn against people trying to self-medicate.

"It's not the drug alone. We're not sure the drug alone would have an intrinsic antidepressant effect," he said.

In order to try to "blind" people as to which group they were in - to prevent their expectations altering how they responded to the medication - those on the psychedelic arm were given a daily placebo pill and those on the SSRI arm had two guided sessions during which they were given 1mg of psilocybin (not enough to have a real effect).

For obvious reasons, it is quite challenging to "blind" people to whether or not they've received a large dose of psychedelics.

But Dr Carhart-Harris said other studies suggested people continued to feel better for months after psilocybin treatment, making it unlikely to be just the effect of positive expectations.

The participants in the Imperial study are being followed up for six months after their initial six-week treatment.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56745139

In the 60s me and my mates regularly used to go to some fields just north of Leicester where magic mushrooms grew in profusion. They seemed stronger and didn't taste as disgusting as the normal run. 

Then they built a massive housing estate over the top of them -

Just one more reason why I find Beaumont Leys so bloody depressing! 

 

[chrishlcfc]

Hi folks, can anybody recommend any decent counsellors that they have used or have maybe heard about. I’m still really struggling and am looking into getting some sessions, but unfortunately they’d also have to be at a reasonable price for me to look into it.

[Staff]

6 minutes ago, chrishlcfc said:

Hi folks, can anybody recommend any decent counsellors that they have used or have maybe heard about. I’m still really struggling and am looking into getting some sessions, but unfortunately they’d also have to be at a reasonable price for me to look into it.

https://www.vitahealthgroup.co.uk/make-a-referral/

 

Hi Chris, firstly I hope you are OK. Have you tried let's talk? They have recently transferred over to vita health, it's a free service but they are quick and hopefully they will be able to help you

[chrishlcfc]

31 minutes ago, Staff said:

https://www.vitahealthgroup.co.uk/make-a-referral/

 

Hi Chris, firstly I hope you are OK. Have you tried let's talk? They have recently transferred over to vita health, it's a free service but they are quick and hopefully they will be able to help you

Hi, thanks for the response. Yes I’ve spoken to Vita Minds they sort of just passed me on a little bit after I did a self assessment with them, because I properly spiralled out of control after that assessment and told them I wanted to kill myself. They also said it was a 6 month waiting list currently with them and unfortunately I feel I need help a lot sooner than that.

[Staff]

2 hours ago, chrishlcfc said:

Hi, thanks for the response. Yes I’ve spoken to Vita Minds they sort of just passed me on a little bit after I did a self assessment with them, because I properly spiralled out of control after that assessment and told them I wanted to kill myself. They also said it was a 6 month waiting list currently with them and unfortunately I feel I need help a lot sooner than that.

Bloody hell mate. You've done the right thing looking at getting help, which is tough in itself. Have you got people around you to talk to? 

[Danno]

Has anyone been to any therapist about anxiety/overthinking? What was your experience and did it help? Not looking for recommendations as live outside of UK but want to know if it was worth it or not. 

[Big Dave]

6 hours ago, chrishlcfc said:

Hi folks, can anybody recommend any decent counsellors that they have used or have maybe heard about. I’m still really struggling and am looking into getting some sessions, but unfortunately they’d also have to be at a reasonable price for me to look into it.

Hi

You could perhaps try

www.counselling-directory.org.uk

www.psychologytoday.com

 

This is where my wife advertises and gets her work.

I would suggest that you perhaps take a look on there (you can filter by location and what your issues are), and look at their profiles.  Shortlist a handful and then contact them and talk to them (not just email).  You will then get an idea of their personality and if you think you will get on well together.  They will also advise on pricing and availability.  Expect to pay £40-£50 per session. Some will be available immediately, some will have waiting lists.

 

MIND also offer a free Counselling service, however I think there will be a waiting list, and you may be limited to 6 sessions, which often isn’t enough for many people.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

Edited 26 April 2021 by Big Dave

[Big Dave]

4 minutes ago, DanNDH88 said:

Has anyone been to any therapist about anxiety/overthinking? What was your experience and did it help? Not looking for recommendations as live outside of UK but want to know if it was worth it or not. 

Like all services, it often depends on getting the right person in the first place.  Different counsellors will have different specialisms.  Some will deal with anxiety, some specialise in sexual abuse, some specialise in couple therapy, etc.

 

I know my wife has dealt with clients suffering with anxiety and has had really good results (she obviously hasn’t told me any details).

 

Although you are outside the UK, because of Covid, many counsellors are now offering telephone or Skype sessions.

[String fellow]

44 minutes ago, DanNDH88 said:

Has anyone been to any therapist about anxiety/overthinking? What was your experience and did it help? Not looking for recommendations as live outside of UK but want to know if it was worth it or not. 

Remember that talking therapy is just that - talking. Therapists are trained to listen and make suggestions, but often the patient is cleverer than the therapist and will already have thought about the coping strategies that the therapist suggests. Having said that, if one believes that therapy of this sort will be beneficial, then that in itself should help. Personally, I'd never pay for such treatment. 

 

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, String fellow said:

Remember that talking therapy is just that - talking. Therapists are trained to listen and make suggestions, but often the patient is cleverer than the therapist and will already have thought about the coping strategies that the therapist suggests. Having said that, if one believes that therapy of this sort will be beneficial, then that in itself should help. Personally, I'd never pay for such treatment. 

 

This. I tried a therapist to help with my anxiety issues and potential PTSD. She did exactly what you describe in terms of listening and making suggestions and giving reassurance. I had already tried most of what she suggested through the support schemes in my job but it did help to "just talk" for an hour.

[Big Dave]

1 hour ago, String fellow said:

Remember that talking therapy is just that - talking. Therapists are trained to listen and make suggestions, but often the patient is cleverer than the therapist and will already have thought about the coping strategies that the therapist suggests. Having said that, if one believes that therapy of this sort will be beneficial, then that in itself should help. Personally, I'd never pay for such treatment. 

 

String fellow, i completely disagree with your post above regarding Counselling.  I take it that you have never received Counselling (if you have, it must have been a poor Counsellor), and / or you know very little about Counselling, so are not qualified to make these statements.

 

Therapists are not just 'trained to listen and make suggestions'.  Yes, listening to the person is key, but it is not just about 'making suggestions'.  It is about listening to what the persons issues are, and exploring their past to try and identify what has caused their issues, why it has caused their issues, and what they can do to help themselves in the future.  Their job is to fully understand their client, and in turn, make their client fully understand themselves.

 

'..often the patient is cleverer than the therapist and will already have thought about the coping strategies that the therapist suggests'.  Firstly, if the patient was 'cleverer than the therapist' (I am not really sure what is meant here), they would not be there.  Often, the person seeking help needs help in understanding what their issues are, and why they feel that way.  If they already knew 'coping strategies' they would not be there.  If there are some simple strategies that may help, they are often not in the frame of mind to  identify what that may be, or understand how it may help.  It is also important to note though that 'coping strategies' are not often the key outcomes of successful therapy.  Of much greater importance is being able to understand what the issues are, where they stem from (no, it is not always about the parents), and how they can move forward with their lives.  Often by understanding this, and learning to understand this is key.  People seeking Counselling often do not know why they feel that way, and often do not know what the trigger is.  Successful Counselling will help to do this.  Coping strategies are a bit like taking pain killers regularly for a bad back.  You are much better trying to cure the back problem, rather than just taking pain killers and hoping it will go away.

 

My wife is a Counsellor (and I am not just writing this because of my wifes work).  She has received so many lovely thank-you cards and letters from people that she has helped.  Some of her clients are recommendations from friends of other people she has helped, and some of her Clients return for ad-hoc therapy sessions (sometimes years later) to help get them through difficult periods.  This shoes that people really do see the benefits in therapy.

 

I genuinely hope that you never have any mental health issues that require help, but please be careful with comments like this on forums like this - they can be damaging and harmful to people who may be in desperate need of help.  If people are reaching out on here, they are obviously in need of someone to speak with and need that little bit of help in their lives.  They need support and encouragement, not unhelpful comments.

 

[Costock_Fox]

7 hours ago, chrishlcfc said:

Hi, thanks for the response. Yes I’ve spoken to Vita Minds they sort of just passed me on a little bit after I did a self assessment with them, because I properly spiralled out of control after that assessment and told them I wanted to kill myself. They also said it was a 6 month waiting list currently with them and unfortunately I feel I need help a lot sooner than that.

Sorry to hear they didn’t put you forward for that mate. Remember how well you have been getting on recently and keep focusing on the positives.

 

Always there for a message mate.

[String fellow]

40 minutes ago, Big Dave said:

String fellow, i completely disagree with your post above regarding Counselling.  I take it that you have never received Counselling (if you have, it must have been a poor Counsellor), and / or you know very little about Counselling, so are not qualified to make these statements.

 

Therapists are not just 'trained to listen and make suggestions'.  Yes, listening to the person is key, but it is not just about 'making suggestions'.  It is about listening to what the persons issues are, and exploring their past to try and identify what has caused their issues, why it has caused their issues, and what they can do to help themselves in the future.  Their job is to fully understand their client, and in turn, make their client fully understand themselves.

 

'..often the patient is cleverer than the therapist and will already have thought about the coping strategies that the therapist suggests'.  Firstly, if the patient was 'cleverer than the therapist' (I am not really sure what is meant here), they would not be there.  Often, the person seeking help needs help in understanding what their issues are, and why they feel that way.  If they already knew 'coping strategies' they would not be there.  If there are some simple strategies that may help, they are often not in the frame of mind to  identify what that may be, or understand how it may help.  It is also important to note though that 'coping strategies' are not often the key outcomes of successful therapy.  Of much greater importance is being able to understand what the issues are, where they stem from (no, it is not always about the parents), and how they can move forward with their lives.  Often by understanding this, and learning to understand this is key.  People seeking Counselling often do not know why they feel that way, and often do not know what the trigger is.  Successful Counselling will help to do this.  Coping strategies are a bit like taking pain killers regularly for a bad back.  You are much better trying to cure the back problem, rather than just taking pain killers and hoping it will go away.

 

My wife is a Counsellor (and I am not just writing this because of my wifes work).  She has received so many lovely thank-you cards and letters from people that she has helped.  Some of her clients are recommendations from friends of other people she has helped, and some of her Clients return for ad-hoc therapy sessions (sometimes years later) to help get them through difficult periods.  This shoes that people really do see the benefits in therapy.

 

I genuinely hope that you never have any mental health issues that require help, but please be careful with comments like this on forums like this - they can be damaging and harmful to people who may be in desperate need of help.  If people are reaching out on here, they are obviously in need of someone to speak with and need that little bit of help in their lives.  They need support and encouragement, not unhelpful comments.

 

The question was asked by another FTer, so I gave my honest opinion based on personal experience. Talking therapies work for some, but not everyone.

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, String fellow said:

The question was asked by another FTer, so I gave my honest opinion based on personal experience. Talking therapies work for some, but not everyone.

But the thing is - you didn't actually answer his question.

[String fellow]

3 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

But the thing is - you didn't actually answer his question.

I thought I had! This evening, I've looked through various other discussion forums where the topics of counselling and psychotherapy have been discussed at length. Unlike here, where the reaction to my comments has essentially been one of patronising dismissal, those forums have all involved sensible exchanges of opinions about the efficacy or otherwise of such treatments. And all by people who've actually received treatments such as CBT like I have, rather than as a result of being married to a therapist. The opinions are divided, some in favour, others definitely not in favour. I've also looked at some medical journals' reviews of treatments such as CBT. The general conclusion is that it's beneficial for most patients for whom it's appropriate, but that its effectiveness reduces over time. Please note that mental issues have played a huge part in my life, being a chronic sufferer myself and having lost a very close relative as a result of depression.  

[HighPeakFox]

19 minutes ago, String fellow said:

I thought I had! This evening, I've looked through various other discussion forums where the topics of counselling and psychotherapy have been discussed at length. Unlike here, where the reaction to my comments has essentially been one of patronising dismissal, those forums have all involved sensible exchanges of opinions about the efficacy or otherwise of such treatments. And all by people who've actually received treatments such as CBT like I have, rather than as a result of being married to a therapist. The opinions are divided, some in favour, others definitely not in favour. I've also looked at some medical journals' reviews of treatments such as CBT. The general conclusion is that it's beneficial for most patients for whom it's appropriate, but that its effectiveness reduces over time. Please note that mental issues have played a huge part in my life, being a chronic sufferer myself and having lost a very close relative as a result of depression.  

I have zero desire to patronise you, especially in light of your final sentence. I think it might be worth going back and looking at what you said in response, because I'm not convinced you made your point effectively.

[String fellow]

21 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

I have zero desire to patronise you, especially in light of your final sentence. I think it might be worth going back and looking at what you said in response, because I'm not convinced you made your point effectively.

The original question about getting therapy for anxiety/overthinking is closely related to the question of getting therapy for anxiety/depression, for which I have a lot of experience. My answers to the questions of 'did it work' and 'was it worth it' both seemed clear and avoided being too dogmatic.

Edited 27 April 2021 by String fellow

[StanSP]

Anyone ever not know how they're meant to be feeling?

I feel like I should be really grateful and fortunate for where I am in life, but I feel like something is dragging me down but I can't pinpoint it. And it's consuming me every now and then. I can take my mind of it when I play football or watch it. Or if I'm with my fiance and very soon wife. But everything else seems a drag. Having seen some of the posts on here I feel guilty for even posting anything like this as it it's so minor in comparison. I don't know how to snap out of whatever I'm feeling - but without knowing what it is, how do I find the solution?

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

Anyone ever not know how they're meant to be feeling?

I feel like I should be really grateful and fortunate for where I am in life, but I feel like something is dragging me down but I can't pinpoint it. And it's consuming me every now and then. I can take my mind of it when I play football or watch it. Or if I'm with my fiance and very soon wife. But everything else seems a drag. Having seen some of the posts on here I feel guilty for even posting anything like this as it it's so minor in comparison. I don't know how to snap out of whatever I'm feeling - but without knowing what it is, how do I find the solution?

Break your routine - even if it's small. As an example, even if I can persuade myself just to do one extra chore, or drop a matter on here (which I can recommend before the less sensitive souls try to drag you further down) a little faster than I might normally do. All the other stuff you mentioned is no reason to guilt-trip yourself. Add something small but positive to your life - even if it is something seemingly unimportant like growing a plant.

[Danno]

12 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Anyone ever not know how they're meant to be feeling?

I feel like I should be really grateful and fortunate for where I am in life, but I feel like something is dragging me down but I can't pinpoint it. And it's consuming me every now and then. I can take my mind of it when I play football or watch it. Or if I'm with my fiance and very soon wife. But everything else seems a drag. Having seen some of the posts on here I feel guilty for even posting anything like this as it it's so minor in comparison. I don't know how to snap out of whatever I'm feeling - but without knowing what it is, how do I find the solution?

I’m like this too. If I don’t have a distraction I feel like absolute shite and the anxiety sets in like mad. 

[StanSP]

18 minutes ago, DanNDH88 said:

I’m like this too. If I don’t have a distraction I feel like absolute shite and the anxiety sets in like mad. 

It leads me to overthinking. 

About needless things. Things that I really shouldn't be affected by. 

[Langston]

For all I know you might already be active @StanSP but I fully recommend getting on some kind of exercise bandwagon, however clichéd or simplistic it might sound! It's definitely not a panacea for everybody - and I'd really like to add that I tend to get more "fed up" than anything else more serious, thankfully - but I find if I ever feel like I'm going through the motions, or work feels never-ending, that just going for a run, trying to set new achievements on Strava (as trivial as that comes across) and the little serotonin boosts that come from it really seem to balance any sluggish feelings very well. 

 

If I ever feel a bit low, or purposeless, looking at exactly how I'm spending my time seems to help. Could the hour a night I'm spending sat on my backside refreshing Foxestalk / Instagram be better spent outdoors, ultimately looking after myself?