Vardy and Drinkwater starting tomorrow

[Col city fan]

Maybe. But what we learned from tonight is that he's not good enough to play central mid for England, even against a scratch Holland team at home. Hodgson may choose to overlook that, but it doesn't change the clarity of the evidence from tonight. And who knows, he might surprise us all and pick on this season's form.

Why have we only learnt that tonight? There are clearly better options than Milner and have been for some time. But he'll be there. Pretty sure of that unless Woy has a personality transplant.

[Ric Flair]

John Stones is having an appalling season but then again Everton can't defend for toffee so..... He needs to leave in the summer and under the right guidance should become a top centre half. We have so many weaknesses at the back it's unreal, Cahill has only ever looked solid when he's had someone of John Terry's calibre alongside him and Chris Smalling up until this season has always been seen as a bombscare. At full back the problems we have is Hodgson likes to play the Tottenham way which means the full backs tear forward as we don't really have any other proper width and it leaves us exposed with centre halves who don't really know what they're doing.

 

I am probably biased but if we are to have any success this summer short term with this defence then the full backs either need to be more disciplined going forward or Dier and Drinkwater HAVE to play and their protection might just scrape us through. There's obvious goals in this England team so it's not all doom and gloom, but we don't really have a manager whose positive enough to keep attacking with the you score and we'll score more mentality. Hodgson likes to play a possession game where we stifle things and then look to wear teams down, the problem there is it's us that get worn down with soft goals and then we're under pressure to get anything from games.

[Countryfox]

Must have been hard for Drinky to make his mark in that match but he put in a creditable performance. Woy should look at what he does week in week out for us when he makes his decision. JV scored in both games and got top marks in the Telegraph player ratings and is a no brainer for selection. Trouble is Woy is boring and conservative so one way or another he will screw things up which is a shame as there is a lot of talent out there.

[foxes161]

I think Vardy has already got himself on the plane with these two performances.

[ScouseFox]

also, i got banned for being right about england the other day when we played germany, seems mark can't handle the truth. i was so right as well such a shame i wasn't allowed to say told you so. i will happily accept an apology via pm from everyone who tried to tell me we were playing badly and were rubbish. i fu cking love england and i hope everyone who "would rather we lost" or "doesn't want our players playing internationals ffs" has cried themselves to sleep for the last 4 nights. pr icks. what an international break this has been.

 

we were incredibly good in germany. vardy's goal was superb and heroic. 

 

fast forward to last night and it was different. sturridge was awful. static forwards don't ever work. he just stood around and it meant we had nothing to play with going forward, despite vardy's best efforts. vardy was our best forward and drinkwater was our best midfielder so can't complain i guess. shame the result and performance was a bit shit but it's been a promising and interesting international break. 

 

if john stones starts against russia i'll kill myself. the single most incredibly bad, frustrating and overrated player of our generation at least. i don't think he's EVER (?) played well. it took a while for people to realise i was right in claiming he was rubbish. it has taken everton about 18 months to drop him for jagielka ffs and i pray to god england get rid asap. when i find that thread were i said he was shit and a few people said he was "phenomenal" and "the best young defender for generations" i am gonna lols real hard.

[foxes161]

Stones just messes around on the ball far too much, he gambles around the box which is something you can not do at that level. He's so damn overrated. What idiot would pay 50 million for him? He's young so he will improve but he's not ready yet.

[Richmondfox]

Interesting with Barkley and Stones, something I have noticed having watched Everton a few times this season, their decision making is abysmal.

This goes for the whole Everton team, not sure if it's a Martinez thing, an Everton thing or just a coincidence but no doubt they have some top draw players the two mentioned, Mirallas, deulofeu, Kone I could go on- they all show glimpses of out and out quality but then make really stupid decisions on the ball, almost selfish look at me decisions, whether it's a Hollywood pass or trying to take on one to many players they just feck it up.

No doubt man for man Everton should be at least challenging West Ham and Southampton for a top 6 spot, except they make silly decisions and are mid table with little to play for again.

I agree with this. Both players take too long on the ball and play themselves into danger. They make themselves look good by twisting and turning away from players who they have allowed to get close but then put other players in danger. Barkley was constantly running into danger or taking too long then just passing back to the defence and allowing everyone to get back into place. Stones has been doing it all season by messing about with the ball when he should just Huth it out of play, he's been at fault for several goals or put Howard under pressure causing penalties. How long can you keep using the excuse of he's young, if he or the coaches can't see what he is doing wrong constantly then something is up, he needs to play like a defender when it's called for or move further up the field.

This is slightly tongue in cheek but at the minute he's the English Sol Bamba. I'd rather have Wes putting his body on the line, being in the right place and clearing danger when needed than some kid doing a Cruyff turn in the box and giving away penalties.

[ARM1968]

Woy should have learnt something from these two matches but I doubt he has.

Vardy will go I imagine but even that probably isn't nailed on with Wellbad and Sturgid back in action.

Drinky was solid last night but no more, because that was the roll he was given. Hard to shine when you're shackled like that. Wouldn't say he's a definite, although he should be.

Barkley makes me foam at the mouth. The irritating **** has bags of talent but no friggin brain. If he could see the obvious he'd be great. Surging runs, obvious player to pass to, never bloody does. End product, nothing at all.

Stones will be class eventually if someone can talk to him about using common sense. Looks very good on the ball, usually, and can pick passes few CB's can. Again makes silly brainless errors.

Rose - looked a liability to me. Still, must be difficult playing with such a massive chip on your shoulder and with Glenn Hoddle's tongue rammed up your arse.

Sturridge poor and knew it.

Milner worse and didn't know it. Three identical corners with identical outcomes early in the second half - donkey. Annoyingly though he is a guy who leaves it all on the pitch in PL games.

Everyone else bland and nothing much to say. Spuds contingent on without enough time to improve things. Kane is decent, Ali is quality, Dier doesn't do anything special.

Over to you Woy.

[kingcarr21]

And the stones criticism is unreal - a young lad trying to play the right way. Better he does that in a friendly than the euros. Everyone makes mistakes but I think it's great we have players confident enough the try it. Let's be honest Holland got lucky - came with two Lines to be compact and made it difficult for England to get any fluency

What is the right way?

 

If you are telling me that being a ball playing defender is the right way then I would turn your attention to Leicester's defence this season and happily tell you that I would rather have our approach than his.

 

John Stones is a liability. He needs to understand when to play the ball and when to put it out. Looks great when it comes off for him but he puts his defensive partners under unnecessary pressure when he holds the ball then does a silly pass to a team mate who then doesn't have time to look up and panics.

 

Quite simply he isn't ready for the international stage. A raw talent who i'm sure will have a great career. Our lack of quality defenders is a huge worry so he will still go to the tournament. I wouldn't start him though.

[ronnup]

Llalana shouldn't be anywhere near the plane. He was terrible last night and I've no idea why he's so highly rated.

Danny was everywhere , and considering the back 4 he had to protect all night he deserved his motm

[FantasticMrFox&Son]

I don't actually think Stones is a natural centre-back.

He's probably more like Carrick, but hasn't yet got the ability to pick out a 40 yard diagonal or through ball.

Given time (and at a different club) I'm sure he'll make progress but NOT as a central defender.

[HighPeakFox]

It's all about you Scouse, I was forgetting.

[FantasticMrFox&Son]

Dier has played in the centre back role.

Would be a hell of a risk, but I have zero confidence in any of Stones, Cahill or Jagielka as a partner for Smalling.

[ScouseFox]

It's all about you Scouse, I was forgetting.

 

this

[Captain...]

First off can we stop this English mentality of sucking off a player after one good game, and slating a player after one bad game. Last night was not a very cohesive performance partly because we had an inexperienced team out there that was still getting used to playing together.

 

One of the reasons we looked good on Saturday was the fact you had 4 spurs team mates on the pitch who knew each others games.

 

Stones and Barkley are good players and will play a role for England, the problem for both of them is that they are having a season in an erratic Everton side and whilst Barkley has shown flashes of his ability, England weren't set up in the same way, and didn't have a Lukaku type player up front. Ideally Stones should be bossing things in the U21s, not playing for the first team, but we have so few options he is being thrust into the national side while he is still developing his game.

 

Sturridge is another one who isn't shit, but he didn't seem to know how to play with a partner, he got in Vardy's way for his first shot, and didn't seem to know whether to drop deep or try and run in behind. He rarely made space for himself and wasn't helped by the narrow midfield bunching it all together. Tellingly our goal came from a marauding full back giving us some width.

 

Drinkwater did what  Hodgson asked, and then some, he played some good decisive forward passes, but they often came back to him as there wasn't enough movement up front, he made a few driving runs, but if he didn't get the ball back immediately he put the brakes on and dropped back again. His passing wasn't perfect, but he would have impressed Hodgson with his sideways passing.

 

Milner was poor as was Lallana, but again they were playing in unfamiliar roles and didn't seem to know whether to pull out wide, drop deep or push on  in the end they were both too static for most of the game, and Milner's crossing was woeful.

 

Vardy was quiet, but he had 4 moments that show why he should be on the plane. His first shot after a 1-2 with Lallana, his goal, the 30 yard pile driver, but most Vardy like was pouncing on a flick doing the defender for pace and winning good possession high up the pitch. Unfortunately there was nobody anywhere near him at the time so it ended up going backwards.  There were also times when Vardy was the only man chasing the ball and pressing them at the back, this is something he needs to be careful of, if he is isolated up front he can't perform a 1 man press. He will just get knackered and look stupid.

[Col city fan]

also, i got banned for being right about england the other day when we played germany, seems mark can't handle the truth. i was so right as well such a shame i wasn't allowed to say told you so. i will happily accept an apology via pm from everyone who tried to tell me we were playing badly and were rubbish. i fu cking love england and i hope everyone who "would rather we lost" or "doesn't want our players playing internationals ffs" has cried themselves to sleep for the last 4 nights. pr icks. what an international break this has been.

we were incredibly good in germany. vardy's goal was superb and heroic.

fast forward to last night and it was different. sturridge was awful. static forwards don't ever work. he just stood around and it meant we had nothing to play with going forward, despite vardy's best efforts. vardy was our best forward and drinkwater was our best midfielder so can't complain i guess. shame the result and performance was a bit shit but it's been a promising and interesting international break.

if john stones starts against russia i'll kill myself. the single most incredibly bad, frustrating and overrated player of our generation at least. i don't think he's EVER (?) played well. it took a while for people to realise i was right in claiming he was rubbish. it has taken everton about 18 months to drop him for jagielka ffs and i pray to god england get rid asap. when i find that thread were i said he was shit and a few people said he was "phenomenal" and "the best young defender for generations" i am gonna lols real hard.

Scouse..a few of us said on the night..the first goal was a legitimate goal.

If that stood, we'd have been three down and it would have been game over.

Our second half last night was as pants as our first half against Germany.

[Col city fan]

Completely agree with the posts above about Stones developing into a top class centre back with the right guidance.

He's got all the attributes except decision making...but that comes with experience in most cases. He should leave Everton in the summer to continue his development.

I think he'll be our first choice centre back (England) for years to come.

[treer]

Why is reddit so infatuated with Vardy, the other night when both Kane and Vardy scored the goal thread post count was 1500-400.

I understand his goal was a wonder goal, but it happens all the time.

[maynefox]

Hart
Walker
Cahill
Smalling
Rose
Drinkwater
Lallana
Dier
Ali
Kane
Vardy

 

In the formation that we played in the second half versus Germany, would be my starting XI for the Euros.

[Birmingham fox]

Just heard jamie redknapp saying he wanted to see drinkwater playing a box to box role and not the holding role he was put in. Have to agree with that, he was restricted from playing his normal game. Think he did well but doubt he will go to the Euros now. He had to be outstanding to have any chance as will be the only opportunity he gets before euros to impress in an England shirt. What is it with Hodgson and taking a few games to play our lads in same position as they for Leicester

[Captain...]

Just heard jamie redknapp saying he wanted to see drinkwater playing a box to box role and not the holding role he was put in. Have to agree with that, he was restricted from playing his normal game. Think he did well but doubt he will go to the Euros now. He had to be outstanding to have any chance as will be the only opportunity he gets before euros to impress in an England shirt. What is it with Hodgson and taking a few games to play our lads in same position as they for Leicester

 

Hodgson doesn't play  box to box midfielders, so there is no point playing like that, 4231 with 2 holding mids, or the diamond with a holding mid at the base.

 

Drinkwater showed he is disciplined to play that role and that Hodgson can trust him to carry out his instructions and protect the back 4 and not go wandering off up field trying to play his own game.

[maynefox]

Hodgson doesn't play  box to box midfielders, so there is no point playing like that, 4231 with 2 holding mids, or the diamond with a holding mid at the base.

 

Drinkwater showed he is disciplined to play that role and that Hodgson can trust him to carry out his instructions and protect the back 4 and not go wandering off up field trying to play his own game.

 

First half in particular Drinkwater was very very good at this. I constantly watched him and his positioning for a good 15 minutes. He was so intelligent with his defensive positioning when Stones would go wondering out from the back four. A real joy to watch. 

[adam]

Not sure what stones is doing in the team .He has had a terrible season. It seems we are using these England games to teach him how to defend . That's the job of his club not the national team .Get rid.

[Col city fan]

I can't stand the diamond. I hated it under Sven and hate it for England.

Drinky took to it like a fish to water but he IS a box to box man.

To have him sitting at the base is to nullify him going forward.

442 for me. Drinkwater alongside Alli with Vardy up alongside Kane. Balls to bloody Lallana and the like. I'd have Wellbeck on the left and probably Oxlade on the right (if fit). The problem is Woy won't.

[Captain...]

First half in particular Drinkwater was very very good at this. I constantly watched him and his positioning for a good 15 minutes. He was so intelligent with his defensive positioning when Stones would go wondering out from the back four. A real joy to watch. 

 

Same here, couldn't help but focus on Drinky and Vardy, it was good to see his positional sense, but frustrating to see him curb his forward bursts and be forced to pass it sideways due to the lack of movement ahead of him. For us he would have happily carried the ball forwards quick pass and drive into the box, or if there are no options on hit one for  Vardy to chase. You feel he would have been slated for England if he had lost possession trying to find Vardy like that, so he played a sensible game and followed out Hodgson's instructions. Whether it will be enough to get him on the plane, I don't know but he is worth another look in the upcoming friendlies, unless Hodgson has to name his squad before them.