Louis Smith

[Guest MattP]

Surprised we don't have a thread on this.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/37832754

 

What do people think of him being banned from employment for two months for mocking Islam? I do find it wuite frigthening now that you can be subject to this sort of punishment for taking the piss out of a religion, if we have things like this, surely it's impossible to claim we live a free country?

 

Personally I think the most tragic thing about it Louis Smith has apologised and appears to be under the belief he has done something wrong, he hasn't.

[foxy boxing]

so it is alright for islamists to threaten to want to kill us and for them to spew their hatred of us but we can't be seen either in public or private mocking their religion. was it dumb and stupid yes. do people do dumb and stupid things yes they do. does it really warrant all this attention and fuss? what if he was mocking christianity would that be o.k

[kingcarr21]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Surprised we don't have a thread on this.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/37832754

 

What do people think of him being banned from employment for two months for mocking Islam? I do find it wuite frigthening now that you can be subject to this sort of punishment for taking the piss out of a religion, if we have things like this, surely it's impossible to claim we live a free country?

 

Personally I think the most tragic thing about it Louis Smith has apologised and appears to be under the belief he has done something wrong, he hasn't.

Isn't he going into the Jungle? Wonder if the ban starts from now so him being in the jungle wont have any effect on him. 

 

I've not really followed the story but it does seem to have been blown out of proportion

[leicsmac]

Yeah, it's ridiculous. If we can take the piss out of the Bible thumpers, we sure as hell should be able to take it out of the Quran thumpers too. Fair's fair.

[Steven]

18 minutes ago, MattP said:

Personally I think the most tragic thing about it Louis Smith has apologised and appears to be under the belief he has done something wrong, he hasn't.

Even more tragic is the fact that you cannot see he has done something wrong. In the context of a his relationship with British Gymnastics he has done he has done something very wrong. I presume he has had funding from them. British Gymnastics is there for everyone and not just bigots.

 

In the context of Louis Smith the private individual like you or me then he has done nothing wrong and is free to despise and mock all religious belief (if predicated on the basis of one or more supreme beings) with the same vigour that I do. I have not had funding from British Gymnastics. I also believe my views should not be expressed to colleagues or clients of my current employers.

[Merging Cultures]

Even more tragic is the fact that you cannot see he has done something wrong. In the context of a his relationship with British Gymnastics he has done he has done something very wrong. I presume he has had funding from them. British Gymnastics is there for everyone and not just bigots.

 

In the context of Louis Smith the private individual like you or me then he has done nothing wrong and is free to despise and mock all religious belief (if predicated on the basis of one or more supreme beings) with the same vigour that I do. I have not had funding from British Gymnastics. I also believe my views should not be expressed to colleagues or clients of my current employers.

This is a fair point.

He is a 'public figure' and I do think there are different rules. I am sure the British Gymnastics are trying to appeal to all sections of society, so they have to be careful.

But as an individual, he should be able to say whatever he wants.

The stupidest thing he did was video it. Kids need to learn to turn the phone off.

[RonnieTodger]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/louis-smith-islam-video-luke-carson-olympics-british-gymnastics-silver-medal-ridiculous-dangerous-a7393636.html

 

Good article on it 

[David Guiza]

Agree that it could be considered a little excessive, however I'd imagine the same punishment would be issued if it were any other religion in all honesty.

 

Can't stand the man anyway for numerous reasons. A couple of years ago we went to watch a live recording of a show once that he was on and a comedian was deliberately calling him Louis Spence throughout and you could see him getting more agitated by the second. Anyway, later on for some bizarre reason he showed the crowd his abs and some women in the crowd made the usual 'woo' noises; upon which he turned around to said comedian and, off camera, said 'you wouldn't see Louis Spence get that kind of reaction would you, ****'. Plus the whole posting the picture of the 16 year old gymnasts bum and the video of him criticising the GB gold medallist when he got silver also, just seems like quite a p***k. 

 

 

[GaelicFox]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Surprised we don't have a thread on this.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/37832754

 

What do people think of him being banned from employment for two months for mocking Islam? I do find it wuite frigthening now that you can be subject to this sort of punishment for taking the piss out of a religion, if we have things like this, surely it's impossible to claim we live a free country?

 

Personally I think the most tragic thing about it Louis Smith has apologised and appears to be under the belief he has done something wrong, he hasn't.

Crazy shit this ! All religions are simply havens for weak people to find solutions for weak minds 

 

mock the lot of them I say ! 

[lgfualol]

Bullshit really. People have to stop getting so easily upset about their imaginary sky friends, it's not like he took a shit on a holy book. 

[bovril]

Can only really echo the sentiments above. Religions should be open to ridicule, especially ones that are so rigidly dogmatic. 

[ithuriel]

On the politics show a Muslim spokesman is defending this ban and is getting torn apart.

The Muslim spokesman does not like free speech on this, just got ripped a new one by the Times guest too.

Defending the death threats now and said Smith should be sanctioned 

 

[Barky]

He isn't banned from all employment and he is free to mock whatever religion he wants. British Gymnastics as a private company are free to ban him from competing in their competitions if they feel his actions have harmed them in some way. All seems fair enough to me.

[urban.spaceman]

It's a disgrace.

 

This is exactly why people are intolerant of Islam in this country. This is the country that brought the world Life of Brian and Father Ted. Father Ted co-creator Arthur Matthews tweeted:

 

And he's right. Mocking religion has enriched our culture. It's time Islam grew up if Muslims had any hope of being taken seriously. Enough of screaming "Islamophobia" (which is a bullshit term anyway) every time someone hurt their feelings. I'm not a fan of Louis Smith but he's received death threats for this - I think he should be the one who should be offended here.

 

[Guest Sharpe's Fox]

Completely ridiculous that we are still pandering to butthurt, dim people who believe in their imaginary wizard king. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

Wow, so many people in this thread will be out of work for two months!

[Captain...]

Don't  remember seeing a thread defending Andre Gray and calling his ban outrageous.

 

If you breach the terms of your employment you get punished, he filmed himself doing something that others found offensive and as a sports personality, not a comedian, nor an actor, he was suspended. This was a cumulative suspension after he had previously been in trouble for making inappropriate comments about a young female gymnast. This is not some ridiculous reaction to an innocent comment. He knows his position in society and knows how he is expected to behave. He broke those rules, twice, and like Huth and Gray and many others before he was suspended. This is not anti-Islamaphobia gone mad, it is just how you have to live as a sports personality and role model, I'm sure the punishment would have been the same for anti-Semitic actions or if he was making disparaging comments about turbans.

 

The other fella didn't get a ban because it was a first offence, but it has gone on his record, as it would have done for Smith if he hadn't been warned about his behaviour before.

[Steven]

9 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Don't  remember seeing a thread defending Andre Gray and calling his ban outrageous.

 

If you breach the terms of your employment you get punished, he filmed himself doing something that others found offensive and as a sports personality, not a comedian, nor an actor, he was suspended. This was a cumulative suspension after he had previously been in trouble for making inappropriate comments about a young female gymnast. This is not some ridiculous reaction to an innocent comment. He knows his position in society and knows how he is expected to behave. He broke those rules, twice, and like Huth and Gray and many others before he was suspended. This is not anti-Islamaphobia gone mad, it is just how you have to live as a sports personality and role model, I'm sure the punishment would have been the same for anti-Semitic actions or if he was making disparaging comments about turbans.

 

The other fella didn't get a ban because it was a first offence, but it has gone on his record, as it would have done for Smith if he hadn't been warned about his behaviour before.

Far too sensible for this thread and Forum in general.

[Finnaldo]

3 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Don't  remember seeing a thread defending Andre Gray and calling his ban outrageous.

 

If you breach the terms of your employment you get punished, he filmed himself doing something that others found offensive and as a sports personality, not a comedian, nor an actor, he was suspended. This was a cumulative suspension after he had previously been in trouble for making inappropriate comments about a young female gymnast. This is not some ridiculous reaction to an innocent comment. He knows his position in society and knows how he is expected to behave. He broke those rules, twice, and like Huth and Gray and many others before he was suspended. This is not anti-Islamaphobia gone mad, it is just how you have to live as a sports personality and role model, I'm sure the punishment would have been the same for anti-Semitic actions or if he was making disparaging comments about turbans.

 

The other fella didn't get a ban because it was a first offence, but it has gone on his record, as it would have done for Smith if he hadn't been warned about his behaviour before.

 

It's pretty different. Gray incited death on a group of people because of their sexuality. Louis Smith mocked Islamic prayer. Have you ever, in your life, held your hands together and jokingly 'prayed' for something to happen? Because this is the same deal. Had he said he wished death on all Muslims or referenced Muslims as suicide bombers, I would understand it, but he's mocked fvcking prayer, people in the name of religion (and I'm not just talking Islam) have and continue to do a lot worse.

[urban.spaceman]

24 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Don't  remember seeing a thread defending Andre Gray and calling his ban outrageous.

 

If you breach the terms of your employment you get punished, he filmed himself doing something that others found offensive and as a sports personality, not a comedian, nor an actor, he was suspended. This was a cumulative suspension after he had previously been in trouble for making inappropriate comments about a young female gymnast. This is not some ridiculous reaction to an innocent comment. He knows his position in society and knows how he is expected to behave. He broke those rules, twice, and like Huth and Gray and many others before he was suspended. This is not anti-Islamaphobia gone mad, it is just how you have to live as a sports personality and role model, I'm sure the punishment would have been the same for anti-Semitic actions or if he was making disparaging comments about turbans.

 

The other fella didn't get a ban because it was a first offence, but it has gone on his record, as it would have done for Smith if he hadn't been warned about his behaviour before.

A well reasoned argument where you are correct on many points, but Andre Gray is a terrible comparison to make.

 

What Gray did was make homophobic tweets saying “Is it me or are there gays everywhere? #Burn #Die #MakesMeSick” - sexuality is biological, something you have no choice over. You don't choose to be gay and more that you don't choose to be straight - it's in your DNA. He was rightly punished. But religion isn't biological. You're not "born" a Muslim, Christian etc - that's taught to you, and you have every right to reject it and believe something else (although in Islam's case it is written in black and white that the penalty for apostasy is death). So the two situations are completely different.

 

The issue here is whether the British Gymnastics Association should be taking such a stand on this. All he did was mock. That's all. Not send homophobic and racist tweets wishing death on someone (which is exactly the sort of thing you find in the Qu'ran). Just mockery, which is something all other religions and walks of life are open to and what should be a fundamental right.

[Captain...]

2 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

It's pretty different. Gray incited death on a group of people because of their sexuality. Louis Smith mocked Islamic prayer. Have you ever, in your life, held your hands together and jokingly 'prayed' for something to happen? Because this is the same deal. Had he said he wished death on all Muslims or referenced Muslims as suicide bombers, I would understand it, but he's mocked fvcking prayer, people in the name of religion (and I'm not just talking Islam) have and continue to do a lot worse.

It doesn't matter what he did, nor what you or I think of it, what matters is was it deemed offensive in the eyes of his "employers" or the governing body that sanctions his participation in international sport. Like Huth playing cock or no cock on twitter, or like Smith's comments on a zoomed in photo of a 16 year old gymnasts arse. We don't get to decide what is considered offensive. Unlike Gray and Huth, what Smith did wasn't deemed serious enough to warrant an immediate ban, but after a warning about his behaviour  before they felt they had no option.

 

This is not related to hyper sensitivity around Islam, it is sporting bodies trying to protect their interests and the reputation of their sport.

[Captain...]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

A well reasoned argument where you are correct on many points, but Andre Gray is a terrible comparison to make.

 

What Gray did was make homophobic tweets saying “Is it me or are there gays everywhere? #Burn #Die #MakesMeSick” - sexuality is biological, something you have no choice over. You don't choose to be gay and more that you don't choose to be straight - it's in your DNA. He was rightly punished. But religion isn't biological. You're not "born" a Muslim, Christian etc - that's taught to you, and you have every right to reject it and believe something else (although in Islam's case it is written in black and white that the penalty for apostasy is death). So the two situations are completely different.

 

The issue here is whether the British Gymnastics Association should be taking such a stand on this. All he did was mock. That's all. Not send homophobic and racist tweets wishing death on someone (which is exactly the sort of thing you find in the Qu'ran). Just mockery, which is something all other religions and walks of life are open to and what should be a fundamental right.

Anti Semitic comments would have been dealt with in the same way, we as citizens have the right to mock and say what we want and deal with the consequences if we offend someone, but as members of organizations such as sporting bodies you have to follow rules and accept that they have the right to suspend people for their actions.

[GazzinderFox]

Just now, Captain... said:

Anti Semitic comments would have been dealt with in the same way, we as citizens have the right to mock and say what we want and deal with the consequences if we offend someone, but as members of organizations such as sporting bodies you have to follow rules and accept that they have the right to suspend people for their actions.

Hate speech would be punished according to the law of the land, in this instance it wasn't committed. You miss the point, why does the organisation feel in the first place that mocking for example Christian prayer is OK but mocking Muslim prayer isn't?  Because you can guarantee if it had been the other way we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

 

 

[David Guiza]

25 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

A well reasoned argument where you are correct on many points, but Andre Gray is a terrible comparison to make.

 

What Gray did was make homophobic tweets saying “Is it me or are there gays everywhere? #Burn #Die #MakesMeSick” - sexuality is biological, something you have no choice over. You don't choose to be gay and more that you don't choose to be straight - it's in your DNA. He was rightly punished. But religion isn't biological. You're not "born" a Muslim, Christian etc - that's taught to you, and you have every right to reject it and believe something else (although in Islam's case it is written in black and white that the penalty for apostasy is death). So the two situations are completely different.

 

The issue here is whether the British Gymnastics Association should be taking such a stand on this. All he did was mock. That's all. Not send homophobic and racist tweets wishing death on someone (which is exactly the sort of thing you find in the Qu'ran). Just mockery, which is something all other religions and walks of life are open to and what should be a fundamental right.

I agree with you. However, where do you draw the line? Would you be as accepting of Vardy openly mocking Slimani next time he prays on the pitch because he has the right to do so?

 

I am as big of an advocate of free speech and the right to criticise as anybody else, but morals and general decency also has to come into it at some level when you are talking about something like sport. Besides it's hardly as though he was pondering the deep and meaningful question of whether a lifetime of devotion and sacrifice to God is worth it for perhaps little to no reward, or questioning the morality of a fellow sportsman for believing in a religion with so many questionable aspects, instead he was just petulantly openly mocking somebody for praying and recording it in the process. I'm not so sure that he was consciously invoking his right to free speech. 

 

Also, Huth was fined for a tweet relating to transgender people. Ballotelli was charged for an Anti Simitic post on Instagram etc so it's silly to suggest that it is blown out of proportion just because it's Islam. 

[Captain...]

15 minutes ago, GazzinderFox said:

Hate speech would be punished according to the law of the land, in this instance it wasn't committed. You miss the point, why does the organisation feel in the first place that mocking for example Christian prayer is OK but mocking Muslim prayer isn't?  Because you can guarantee if it had been the other way we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

 

 

 

Can you guarantee that? Do you  have a video of Louis Smith or any other Gymnast mocking Christian prayer?

 

You are right we wouldn't be having this conversation if he had been mocking Christianity and been banned because that doesn't fit the rhetoric of the day. Anti-Islamaphobia overreaction.

 

Where was the thread defending Louis Smith's right to post pictures of 16 year old female gymnasts bottoms on the internet and make sexualised comments? Nobody cared that he got reprimanded for that. This ban is a result of it being a second offense, his mate didn't get banned because he had a clean record. Louis Smith got banned for 2 offenses, not just for mocking Islam, but for making sexualised/sexist/borderline paedophilic comments and mocking Islam.