Pearson philosophy vs Ranieri philosophy

[Donut]

7 hours ago, Kinowe Soorie said:

How many of Claudio's signings will still be here in five years? Pearson was a long term thinker and the players he signed speak for themselves 

Most of them if they start to live up to their hype

 

Gray, Kaputska, Mendy, Ndidi, Chilwell (not a signing but being brought through), Amartey.........all Ranieri signings, all of an age they will continue to improve (hopefully)

[Kinowe Soorie]

46 minutes ago, Barky said:

Claudio has signed almost exclusively young players while Pearson signed the likes of Upson and Cambiasso so this is a ridiculous argument.

He signed those players to do a job. We'd make lots of profit on his signings, would we make any money on Slimani or Musa? Maybe we would on Gray?

[EnglishOxide]

11 minutes ago, Donut said:

I think Claudio has the intentions of building for the future, but whether he will be the right man to lead the building after this season will depend on the end to this season, if there are signs of a new successful pattern of play. The decision might be made by himself.

 

I think he does have an eye on the future, the age of some of his signings show that.

 

The question for me is what sort of future.

 

If he continues to surrender posession and play with only one direct style, which in my opinion is his plan considering all the defensive mids we've got, then how on earth are we going to grow not only as a team but those young players as individuals.

 

Amartey, Gray, Chilwell, Ndidi, Mendy, Musa, Kapustka, Slimani, Vardy and Mahrez need to see the ball in match situations and improve their technical ability on it to become more comfortable and creative. In my opinion, barely touching the ball is not fun for the players and last season aside has never been a recipe for a successful football team, it's certainly not a style of play which will allow creative players to flourish.

 

Gray has not improved a bit since coming here. Mahrez, Drinkwater and even Albrighton have gone backwards in terms of ability. Their ability relies on being sharp and making the right movements and decisions in the final third. However, the fact that we never try to play in the final third means that they aren't sharp when we do get there. They've forgotten how to make good runs, play nice through balls and shoot from distance once in a while.

[TJB-fox]

'I don't want to compare managers'

 

*creates thread called Pearson v Ranieri*

 

[Koke]

In defensive of Ranieri this team is close to running its course. It had a great run (2011-2017) but most teams have a lifespan of 5 years. Ferguson built a new team every 3-4 years. Our back four is aging. The average of our back four is 31.6. Guys like Gray, Ndidi, Mendy, Kapustka and Chilwell should in theory be the next crop of players to be the spine.

 

On the negatives of Ranieri, as @Babylon eloquently put it, these struggles could be seen come from miles away. Instead of making a transition into a more sustainable style of play he just bought players who were like for like. Our football all is an abomination. Truly atrocious.

 

We will survive this season but the there are glaring holes in the squad that needs addressing. The defence needs replacing and the lack of creativity needs to be sorted. It's a crucial summer window.

 

I love Ranieri but I'm not sure he will do this. I really think he will mess the window up again and by November he will.be sacked. 

[Dan LCFC]

I prefer Pearson's philosophy quite comfortably. That is despite the miracle of last season.

 

Pearson was no master tactician, but he installed some fundamentals at this club that would make his job easy. He bought players of a particular character, players who had something to prove and would give everything to go the way of proving whatever that was. He would ensure his squad had this mindset, and he would weed out anyone who didn't no matter how important they were to the team at the time (and I think that could've been his undoing at Derby). He's well with the times in terms of things such as sports science and he had a fantastic backroom team. When you install such a philosophy into a club, you make the unlikely possible. He was favourite to be sacked the year we got 102 points and he kept us up from what seemed an impossible position - granted, he had a lot of responsibility to take for us being in that position and he could've very easily been booted earlier on. He let his frustration boil over a few too many times that season.

 

Ranieri has come in and taken over the foundations Pearson laid, and he added a real tactical nous to it. His nature was exactly what the side needed to keep it going, and the fixtures fell in such a way that we more and more thought... we could actually do something here. Ranieri was excellent last season and did exactly what he should've done time and time again. Clever with the media, ruthless with the players despite the jovial nature, he kept it all ticking over brilliantly and no-one can ever take that away.

 

But if you're talking philosophy, I see very little there. I just don't see any plan with this team going forward. When is the last time we put in two good performances in a row? I see no clear direction in the transfer market, I see a team without anywhere near the hunger they had last season and under Pearson, I see a team that have been battered five times this season and beaten by the majority of the bottom half.

 

It's been my belief all along that Ranieri's timing couldn't have been better, and his handling couldn't have been better, but the fundamentals of his management aren't taking us forward anymore. It isn't just the fact we've been garbage this season, if we stay up and keep Ranieri, I expect it'll be more of the same - more millions wasted and Leicester near the bottom. I tend to look forward rather than back and I would be lying right now if I said I thought we were progressing as a team under him.

 

Pearson will never achieve what Ranieri did here, but I genuinely feel Pearson was a safer pair of hands, and I prepare to be shot down.

[EnglishOxide]

That's a top post IMO. Another aspect of Pearson's philosophy is often overlooked and that is teaching the team to lead itself and take responsibility for itself. Once that was achieved he began watching from the stands because he TRUSTED them to not need him on the touchline barking orders to get 100% from them.

 

This approach began to fail in the middle third of the great escape season as the higher level of opposition in the PL began to knock the teams confidence in itself. It's no coincidence that our upturn in performances that season coincided with Pearson getting back on the touchline and leading from the front and I believe he would have returned to the stands the following season after establishing the team could stand on its own two feet (which it did with Ranieris assistance). 

 

I recall a quote from him in the Championship winning season saying he would take his players to war and fight in the trenches with them because they fight for each other and it was totally believable.

 

These days Ranieri says similar (we must fight for each other) but it's just a sound bite because he says it every match and nobody listens. I hope he can get a grip on things, inspire and blend the team over the rest of the season to fight for a common goal. They play like they lack belief in the football they are being asked to play. Other than a couple of occasions like at Stoke and home to Man City we've looked devoid of ideas, confidence and purpose.

 

I also hope that he has plans in place should we lose 3 or 4 players in the summer because he clearly didn't prepare for the possibility of losing Kante.

 

I hope Don Ranieri has a masterplan that we are all blind to

[Barky]

8 hours ago, Kinowe Soorie said:

He signed those players to do a job. We'd make lots of profit on his signings, would we make any money on Slimani or Musa? Maybe we would on Gray?

Maybe we'll make a profit on the likes of Gray, Amartey, Ndidi, Mendy, Musa, Kapustka, maybe we won't. Did we/will we make a profit on Upson, Cambiasso, Wasilewski, Morgan, Huth, Simpson etc?

 

 

[ImBlue]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I prefer Pearson's philosophy quite comfortably. That is despite the miracle of last season.

 

Pearson was no master tactician, but he installed some fundamentals at this club that would make his job easy. He bought players of a particular character, players who had something to prove and would give everything to go the way of proving whatever that was. He would ensure his squad had this mindset, and he would weed out anyone who didn't no matter how important they were to the team at the time (and I think that could've been his undoing at Derby). He's well with the times in terms of things such as sports science and he had a fantastic backroom team. When you install such a philosophy into a club, you make the unlikely possible. He was favourite to be sacked the year we got 102 points and he kept us up from what seemed an impossible position - granted, he had a lot of responsibility to take for us being in that position and he could've very easily been booted earlier on. He let his frustration boil over a few too many times that season.

 

Ranieri has come in and taken over the foundations Pearson laid, and he added a real tactical nous to it. His nature was exactly what the side needed to keep it going, and the fixtures fell in such a way that we more and more thought... we could actually do something here. Ranieri was excellent last season and did exactly what he should've done time and time again. Clever with the media, ruthless with the players despite the jovial nature, he kept it all ticking over brilliantly and no-one can ever take that away.

 

But if you're talking philosophy, I see very little there. I just don't see any plan with this team going forward. When is the last time we put in two good performances in a row? I see no clear direction in the transfer market, I see a team without anywhere near the hunger they had last season and under Pearson, I see a team that have been battered five times this season and beaten by the majority of the bottom half.

 

It's been my belief all along that Ranieri's timing couldn't have been better, and his handling couldn't have been better, but the fundamentals of his management aren't taking us forward anymore. It isn't just the fact we've been garbage this season, if we stay up and keep Ranieri, I expect it'll be more of the same - more millions wasted and Leicester near the bottom. I tend to look forward rather than back and I would be lying right now if I said I thought we were progressing as a team under him.

 

Pearson will never achieve what Ranieri did here, but I genuinely feel Pearson was a safer pair of hands, and I prepare to be shot down.

 Gave me a good giggle. 

 

Thanks

[STUHILL]

I loved Pearson here, but are people forgetting the 17 games without a win in the Championship and us languishing at the bottom of the Premier League for so long, before (if rumours are true) a certain Cambiasso took over in the dressing room and got us on the path to the great escape. I'm so glad we were patient with him then, and I hope we can all allow Claudio more patience now or are we going to make a mistake we nearly made in getting rid of Pearson before the great escape or after our 17 game losing streak. 

 

Are we also forgetting some of the not so good signings Pearson made with his time with us. Always easier to look back with rose tinted glasses and forget some of the struggles or dodgy signings.

 

Claudio got it spot on last season, and had us playing to near perfection for 38 games. I'm actually pretty happy with the signings he has made on the whole, and he obviously has a big eye on the future and many of these players could become top Premier League players for us. 

 

The players are obviously suffering a severe hangover from winning the league and our two CB's and star striker have fallen off a cliff edge in terms of performance. I believe Claudio is as susprised as us, at how these individual players can have dropped in form so badly and so quickly. He is trying to adjust that now, after giving them more than enough time to rediscover some form. I don't think it is fair to suggest we would have seen this coming with players like Morgan, Huth, Mahrez and Vardy and that Claudio should have addressed that in the summer. He, like us, probably thought he had one of the most prolific no.9's in the league, as well as a rock solid back 4 and one of the best players in the league in Mahrez. 

 

Knowing what we know now, then he absolutely should have looked to replace Morgan, and brought in more creativity and flair, to cover for Mahrez's huge dip in form. 

 

I think the signing of N'didi so far looks a great bit of business and I am very curious to see who is signed next. A decent CB and a no.10 are very much needed and I think he knows this and we will see both arriving soon. After this window, and after he has the 3 or so signings he wanted, if we are still performing badly and slipping into the bottom 3, then I will start to also question his abilities to keep us up as well. I am honestly not sure how the team would cope with his sacking though, as he is obviously a very popular figure. 

 

2-3 signings and a formation and style that suits our best players (4-3-3 in my opinion), and I think we can start getting enough wins to make us all feel more relaxed and regain some faith in Claudio and the players.

[Dan LCFC]

4 hours ago, ImBlue said:

 Gave me a good giggle. 

 

Thanks

I think in a list of things I'm bothered about that happened today, this ranks somewhere around 589th.

[fleckneymike]

Another one for "what have the Romans ever done for us?"

[Gforce19]

Just out of interest , does anyone know why Derby sacked Pearson ?

[Dan LCFC]

I think it was probably a mix of their awful start and Pearson and Morris clashing. Just think it was poor timing in general. I say with confidence three years of Pearson would have them higher up than three years of McClaren, but when you start so badly and look like you could actually take a side who normally pushes for promotion down whilst hardly ever scoring, it's hard to believe in that.

[dylanlegend]

In my eyes Pearson should be considered our greatest ever manager. He laid the foundations for the impossible year last season. I believe he based his philosophy around Alex Feguson ethos of building a solid but more importantly 'good attitude' team.

 

Of course Steve Walsh had a massive influence but you have to remember it was as Pearson who specifically assembled his back room staff and would only come back if Shaky / Walsh came also. Just look at our title winning team last year:

 

Kasper (Sven)

Simpson (Pearson)

Fuchs (Pearson)

Morgan (Pearson)

Huth (Pearson)

Mahrez (Pearson)

Albrighton (Pearson)

Drinkwater (Pearson)

Kante (heavily linked when NP was here)

Vardy (Pearson)

Okazaki (Pearson)

 

As other have said It would be unlikely we'd have won the league last year if NP was still in charge but we would have finished top 10 and still been improving this year.

 

Take nothing away from what CR but I honestly feel NP put more blood, sweat and tears into the job than CR did / does.

 

If it was possible to take back Pearson with Steve Walsh also returning I'd take that tomorrow. Long term I feel we would be much safer and in better hands. 

 

I always said when CR took charge it would take 18 months before we starting seeing a CR team and now that is what we are seeing. I think our transfer policy at the moment is pretty poor compared to that of recent years.

[Barky]

15 hours ago, Gforce19 said:

Just out of interest , does anyone know why Derby sacked Pearson ?

Owner was filming training sessions with a drone so Pearson smacked him in the face (apparently). Think he was on the edge anyway though, he was in the process of getting a strong derby team relegated.

[Barky]

5 hours ago, dylanlegend said:

In my eyes Pearson should be considered our greatest ever manager. He laid the foundations for the impossible year last season. I believe he based his philosophy around Alex Feguson ethos of building a solid but more importantly 'good attitude' team.

 

Of course Steve Walsh had a massive influence but you have to remember it was as Pearson who specifically assembled his back room staff and would only come back if Shaky / Walsh came also. Just look at our title winning team last year:

 

Kasper (Sven)

Simpson (Pearson)

Fuchs (Pearson)

Morgan (Pearson)

Huth (Pearson)

Mahrez (Pearson)

Albrighton (Pearson)

Drinkwater (Pearson)

Kante (heavily linked when NP was here)

Vardy (Pearson)

Okazaki (Pearson)

 

As other have said It would be unlikely we'd have won the league last year if NP was still in charge but we would have finished top 10 and still been improving this year.

 

Take nothing away from what CR but I honestly feel NP put more blood, sweat and tears into the job than CR did / does.

 

If it was possible to take back Pearson with Steve Walsh also returning I'd take that tomorrow. Long term I feel we would be much safer and in better hands. 

 

I always said when CR took charge it would take 18 months before we starting seeing a CR team and now that is what we are seeing. I think our transfer policy at the moment is pretty poor compared to that of recent years.

All well and good saying Pearson signed these players (it was Walsh of course) but he never got the best out of them. Albrighton didn't get a look in. Morgan was having his pants pulled down week in week out. Vardy got about two goals. Mahrez was in and out of the team and never really looked anything close to what he was capable of. Simpson was a plain donkey. Drinky was all huff and puff. They all looked like quite limited players, and in fact they are all quite limited players. Ranieri's genius last season was to take that group of limited players and build a team that was much, much greater than the sum of its parts. That, from Ranieri, was more important than the quality of the signings. Buying Danny Simpson wasn't an act of genius, but the way Ranieri got him playing last season was. Pearson would never have got anywhere near that level of performance consistently out of those players. Not many managers in the world could do what Ranieri did last season.

[dylanlegend]

3 hours ago, Barky said:

All well and good saying Pearson signed these players (it was Walsh of course) but he never got the best out of them. Albrighton didn't get a look in. Morgan was having his pants pulled down week in week out. Vardy got about two goals. Mahrez was in and out of the team and never really looked anything close to what he was capable of. Simpson was a plain donkey. Drinky was all huff and puff. They all looked like quite limited players, and in fact they are all quite limited players. Ranieri's genius last season was to take that group of limited players and build a team that was much, much greater than the sum of its parts. That, from Ranieri, was more important than the quality of the signings. Buying Danny Simpson wasn't an act of genius, but the way Ranieri got him playing last season was. Pearson would never have got anywhere near that level of performance consistently out of those players. Not many managers in the world could do what Ranieri did last season.

I agree to some extent, however, the question is how much was it 'Ranieir getting the best out the players' to 'the players actually having the ability and MENTALITY to do what they did last year'.

 

If Ranieri is the genius that gets the best out of the players what has happened this season? Can't he get the best out of Slimani, Mahrez, Vardy anymore!? Or are the new players simply not good enough to challenge at the very top?

[NeilLCFC]

On 16/01/2017 at 16:49, whoareyaaa said:

- Clearly you didn't watch all of the games if you thought we was awful in 60% of them, change those figures around and your not far off.

 

Vardy started tearing shit up when Pearson let him loose in the last 10 games, shit if it wasn't for Pearson we may never have even been in or got Vardy so take your hat of to the bloke for believing in him when no else did.

Whose to say Pearson wouldn't have won us the League in the same way we did it under Ranieri, Kante was a Walsh signing, same with Fuchs so he would have had exactly the same squad to work with but with another years experience under his belt with the squad he and his team built, thats after destroying two league in the process. He managed to win both the League 1 and Championship title so who the hell is to say he wouldn't be able to do it in the Prem with more or less the same team. 1 year doesn't give you much of a chance though.

 

 

Im going to put it out there and say if it wasn't for Nigel Pearson we wouldn't have never won the league. fact.

 

Excellent points. I'm pretty sure notthemarketleader is Claudio.

 

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

Very difficult to compare the two as they managed under different circumstances and expectations. 

 

Pearson's first reign was just great management and considering he had to do that under Milan Mandaric probably adds to how well he did In his first two years. 

 

Great management at times is about putting the right people in the right places. He hired shakespeare who is a good coach, Walsh for his sheer experience more often than not picked the right player and his work with building the sports science still benefitted us last year. 

 

His second reign was slightly different. We had a good budget in the championship. However, by again changing the philosophy he got rid of a imbalance squad and built a squad of players we still benefit from today. 

 

However, Pearson's reign was not a one man band and each factor contributed to his success here. Players were bought, coaches were hired and expert were put in place do ensure the criteria of the philosophy was met at each point. It was a long term plan, which at times, having the patience of the owners helped. There were situations under his reign that other owners would've got rid (to our detriment as history has shown).

 

Ranieri on the other hand is in a position where his success has in some respect come too quickly. Despite what he did last year (and even though I've been one of his biggest critics, I will never attempt to take that away from him) he will be judged predominantly on what he achieves from this season onwards because there will always be the "but Pearson" question. The issue that Ranieri has got is that our scouting techniques have not really changed. Buy players not quite there who need time to adapt and mature into the players we see them becoming. All of the signings this year have that about them. While Amartey, Musa, Slimani Zieler and even Ndidi may not be the world beaters we hoped them to be, they've all at some point (some more than others) shown some promise. Where I think the club failed is that they didn't go for the Robert Huth experience player that we most probably needed. However, subconsciously our expectations have changed we entered this season as champions, fans subconsciously expected more and we didn't plan for that. We didn't plan for inevitability that our defence was lacking or that one of the magic three (if not all) may leave and that has to be categorised as a major **** up. 

 

Where Pearson at this moment beats ranieri, is his long term planning. We earmarked Kante as a replacement for Cambiasso in February the year before. I would've expected the same for Kante last year. 

 

What Ranieri's philosophy is, is still up for interpretation as our style of play, signings and planning this year has had its shortcomings. Based on our owners past patience, He is here for the year so he will have his time to correct those misdemeanours. 

 

 

[Goober]

What I don't understand is that when Ranieri first came here, his message was pretty much that all he wants if for us to play good football and send the fans home happy with atleast that much. Some of the football we played when he first came in was the best i've ever seen us play, i'm thinking Sunderland at home, Newcastle and Swansea away, West Brom away and such. Teams did learn to counter us but we've completely forgotten what made us good in the first place. I remember hearing King being interviewed before the Bournemouth game this season, with the reporter saying that us and Bournemouth were attacking teams, and Kingy's reply was along the lines of "Don't let the gaffer hear you say that about us". 

 

The only time I lost faith Pearson was the draw at home with Hull, and I include that horrible run in the Championship in that. This season i've had absolutely no idea what Ranieri's plan was many times and thought that he should go probably 3 or 4 times. Dan LCFC's post earlier in the thread summed it up perfectly for me really. Under Pearson I always believed in his philosophy in getting things perfect behind the scenes and creating a great dressing room atmosphere. Under Ranieri...there just seems to be absolutely no plan at all. He worked miracles last year and was perfect in everything he did...but in the long term, he is not the man to take us forward imo. We need someone in the Pochettino/Sampaoli/Bielsa mould for me, but I'd also love Ranieri to prove me wrong.

[NeilLCFC]

On 20/01/2017 at 16:55, Barky said:

All well and good saying Pearson signed these players (it was Walsh of course) but he never got the best out of them. Albrighton didn't get a look in. Morgan was having his pants pulled down week in week out. Vardy got about two goals. Mahrez was in and out of the team and never really looked anything close to what he was capable of. Simpson was a plain donkey. Drinky was all huff and puff. They all looked like quite limited players, and in fact they are all quite limited players. Ranieri's genius last season was to take that group of limited players and build a team that was much, much greater than the sum of its parts. That, from Ranieri, was more important than the quality of the signings. Buying Danny Simpson wasn't an act of genius, but the way Ranieri got him playing last season was. Pearson would never have got anywhere near that level of performance consistently out of those players. Not many managers in the world could do what Ranieri did last season.

Do you forget the 12 or so games during the great escape where Pearson had these players, minus the likes of Kante and Shinji, playing better than most teams in Europe?

 

[Barky]

22 minutes ago, NeilLCFC said:

Do you forget the 12 or so games during the great escape where Pearson had these players, minus the likes of Kante and Shinji, playing better than most teams in Europe?

 

The great escape was nine games of which we won seven. One of those wins was against an already relegated QPR on the final day of the season. Of the remaining six wins, five of them were against mid table teams with nothing to play for (West Ham, West Brom, Swansea, Newcastle & Southampton). The other win was 1-0 away at Burnley who would also go on to be relegated. We played one top-6 team during the run and that was Chelsea at home where we lost 3-1. So while I wouldn't want to take anything away from the great escape, to suggest we were anywhere near one of the best teams in Europe, or anywhere near what we became under Ranieri last season is absolutely ludicrous.

[Ian Nacho]

Pearson philosophy is only play the players you're mates with whilst being very stubborn which led to Knockaert leaving and nearly Albrighton leaving, also near relegation. Claudio won us the league and got us into the last 16 of the champions league. Is there even any need for any comparison who's philosophy is better?

[Donut]

1 hour ago, NeilLCFC said:

Do you forget the 12 or so games during the great escape where Pearson had these players, minus the likes of Kante and Shinji, playing better than most teams in Europe?

 

I thought youd show up earlier in this debate to be fair.

 

Most of your points are absolute rubbish though and 99% of the forum would agree.