Brexit Discussion Thread.

[bovril]

3 hours ago, Strokes said:

The attack was before the referendum, but hey it's still definitely the fault of a future event.

I think you're missing the point. Nobody's saying the racist attacks are because of Brexit, but it's naive to ignore the fact that some (I stress some) of the 'out' campaign deliberately whipped up fear and loathing of citizens from EU countries (and non EU in some cases). It was a means to an end for many.

I have friends and family from European countries who moved to the UK, some of whom have faced quite nasty abuse in the last few years. I do take umbrage at them being called 'low value', and like Foxxed I am concerned about their safety in some cases.

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, bovril said:

I think you're missing the point. Nobody's saying the racist attacks are because of Brexit, but it's naive to ignore the fact that some (I stress some) of the 'out' campaign deliberately whipped up fear and loathing of citizens from EU countries (and non EU in some cases). It was a means to an end for many.

I have friends and family from European countries who moved to the UK, some of whom have faced quite nasty abuse in the last few years. I do take umbrage at them being called 'low value', and like Foxxed I am concerned about their safety in some cases.

Those fears and subsequent loathing haven't been addressed for years and the fact there has been no platform to discuss it due to fears of language being turned into racist or deliberately inflammatory behaviour, is as much of the cause as anything else. Why can't foxxed use a different thread or platform to discuss these matters so that we can all show empathy and behave appropriately instead of feeling we have to defend ourselves from underhand insinuations?

It's as If he thinks boxing 51.8% of the electorate together and branding them nasty racists will help solve this. My first instinct should be to show disgust at such a story (which is a feeling I have towards it) but I can't because of how it's presented. 

The Leave campaign is over now, it cannot be undone, do you think this is helping? 

[bovril]

54 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Those fears and subsequent loathing haven't been addressed for years and the fact there has been no platform to discuss it due to fears of language being turned into racist or deliberately inflammatory behaviour, is as much of the cause as anything else. Why can't foxxed use a different thread or platform to discuss these matters so that we can all show empathy and behave appropriately instead of feeling we have to defend ourselves from underhand insinuations?

It's as If he thinks boxing 51.8% of the electorate together and branding them nasty racists will help solve this. My first instinct should be to show disgust at such a story (which is a feeling I have towards it) but I can't because of how it's presented. 

The Leave campaign is over now, it cannot be undone, do you think this is helping? 

Not at all, and in general I agree it should not be attributed to the referendum as it politicises it and diminishes the responsibility of the perpetrators. But nor am I going to pretend I'm enamoured by some of the ugly discourse around immigration that appears to be gaining popularity at the moment, which is not confined to the UK of course.

[Guest MattP]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/r-no-figures-set-for-brexit-bill-eu-doesnt-want-a-no-deal-option-barnier-2017-5?r=US&IR=T

 

I genuinely have no idea what the position of the EU is going to be in these coming negotiations, I don't even think they know themselves either, I get the feeling there will be so much difference between the council, commission and the 27 other countries they won't even be able to come to one.

 

The stuff that we hear coming out is just bizarre, one day it's 50 billion another it's a 100, one day it's veiled threats about how we can't be seen to benefit from Brexit, next day it's a deal that works for both, next day it's confidential, next day it's leaks to the German press, last week no deal was likely as May was delusion, now the EU doesn't see no deal as an option.

 

Obviously we aren't innocent either, far from it, it's worse than two boxers trying to sell a big fight.

[Guest]

Hopefully they'll work with us and get on with fudging something that may can sell as a hard brexit but is actually a soft brexit. 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

Hopefully they'll work with us and get on with fudging something that may can sell as a hard brexit but is actually a soft brexit. 

It will have to one hell of a job to see us retain open borders, be under the jurisdiction of the ECOHR and see us not trying to do any trade deals whilst telling the public a Hard Brexit has occured.

[Guest MattP]

This video of Clegg at the Oxford Union 2015 EU debate

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/805759/Brexit-news-Andrew-Neil-slams-Richard-Newby-Liberal-Democrat-Brexit-election-2017-pledge

 

Speaking at the Oxford Union, Mr Clegg said: “There will be some voices – and I hope it won’t be Nigel Farage or Sir Bill Cash because this is a fate they shouldn’t perform.

“There will be some people, like those Japanese soldiers who continued fighting the last war because no one had told them it had ended, who will carry on arguing and arguing.

“The rest of us will just move on and carry on with the rest of our lives.”

 

Amazing

[DJ Barry Hammond]

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/19/uk-needs-more-immigrants-to-avoid-brexit-catastrophe

 

interesting take... albeit I would say that as it confirms a view I've mentioned many a time on immigration in that at this present time and situation the country probably needs the level that it is at.

[Foxxed]

 

The Bank of England says our wages will fall, prices will increase and we'll be buying less stuff and so growth will slow.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-hangs-heavy-over-bank-of-england-forecast-10872504

 

It's not all bad news. They say it should improve next year. But there's a catch. They say things will only improve if the Brexit negotiations go well.

 

"In other words, if there is no deal, or a tougher set of negotiations than feared, the economy could well be far weaker in the coming years."

 

And the French President has already said the European Union will look after its members before ex-members.

 

Maybe those who said "Let's leave the EU and the Single Market - it will be brilliant" mis-sold Brexit.

[Buce]

15 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

 

The Bank of England says our wages will fall, prices will increase and we'll be buying less stuff and so growth will slow.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-hangs-heavy-over-bank-of-england-forecast-10872504

 

It's not all bad news. They say it should improve next year. But there's a catch. They say things will only improve if the Brexit negotiations go well.

 

"In other words, if there is no deal, or a tougher set of negotiations than feared, the economy could well be far weaker in the coming years."

 

And the French President has already said the European Union will look after its members before ex-members.

 

Maybe those who said "Let's leave the EU and the Single Market - it will be brilliant" mis-sold Brexit.

 

But... but.. foreigners... blue passports,,, sovereignty... a Health Service each..

[Webbo]

27 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

 

The Bank of England says our wages will fall, prices will increase and we'll be buying less stuff and so growth will slow.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-hangs-heavy-over-bank-of-england-forecast-10872504

 

It's not all bad news. They say it should improve next year. But there's a catch. They say things will only improve if the Brexit negotiations go well.

 

"In other words, if there is no deal, or a tougher set of negotiations than feared, the economy could well be far weaker in the coming years."

 

And the French President has already said the European Union will look after its members before ex-members.

 

Maybe those who said "Let's leave the EU and the Single Market - it will be brilliant" mis-sold Brexit.

We all expected some short term financial hit. The truth is the economy has exceeded all predictions. People voted for self determination, money isn't everything.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Webbo said:

We all expected some short term financial hit. The truth is the economy has exceeded all predictions. People voted for self determination, money isn't everything.

Whereas in the election thread you keep arguing about money and the economy. 

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Webbo said:

We all expected some short term financial hit. The truth is the economy has exceeded all predictions. People voted for self determination, money isn't everything.

It's interesting how money and economic concerns are crucial in one situation and not in others.

[Webbo]

13 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Whereas in the election thread you keep arguing about money and the economy. 

 

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's interesting how money and economic concerns are crucial in one situation and not in others.

Because it's short term ,it won't be that bad, it could turn out to be better and we get self determination at the end, whereas with Labour it'll be a complete disaster that'll set the economy back years and there's no upside at the end.

[Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, Foxxed said:

 

The Bank of England says our wages will fall, prices will increase and we'll be buying less stuff and so growth will slow.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-hangs-heavy-over-bank-of-england-forecast-10872504

 

It's not all bad news. They say it should improve next year. But there's a catch. They say things will only improve if the Brexit negotiations go well.

 

"In other words, if there is no deal, or a tougher set of negotiations than feared, the economy could well be far weaker in the coming years."

 

And the French President has already said the European Union will look after its members before ex-members.

 

Maybe those who said "Let's leave the EU and the Single Market - it will be brilliant" mis-sold Brexit.

 

Bank of England admits 'Michael Fish' moment with dire Brexit predictions

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/05/bank-england-admits-michael-fish-moment-dire-brexit-predictions/
 

 

[Strokes]

24 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's interesting how money and economic concerns are crucial in one situation and not in others.

Quite, yet those accusing of hypocrisy are on the other side of the argument on both cases. Pot kettle?

[yorkie1999]

i like swedes.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/806288/EU-pay-UK-Brussels-reality-check-ridiculous-Brexit-bill-Swedish-MEP-Peter-Lindgren?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

[leicsmac]

36 minutes ago, Webbo said:

 

Because it's short term ,it won't be that bad, it could turn out to be better and we get self determination at the end, whereas with Labour it'll be a complete disaster that'll set the economy back years and there's no upside at the end.

I guess time will tell there - there's no real way to be certain.

 

18 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Quite, yet those accusing of hypocrisy are on the other side of the argument on both cases. Pot kettle?

I'm not entirely sure what point you're making here...sorry, but could you clarify?

 

In any case, it's interesting to me that folks view the entity/quality called "sovereignty" as beyond price, while dismissing (arguably) more important qualities on economic grounds.

 

But I guess everyone has different views on what is really important.

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I guess time will tell there - there's no real way to be certain.

 

I'm not entirely sure what point you're making here...sorry, but could you clarify?

 

In any case, it's interesting to me that folks view the entity/quality called "sovereignty" as beyond price, while dismissing (arguably) more important qualities on economic grounds.

 

But I guess everyone has different views on what is really important.

I'm saying toddybad is accusing webbo of offering conflicting opinions in two threads but is opposing them both with conflicting opinions. Clear enough?

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I'm saying toddybad is accusing webbo of offering conflicting opinions in two threads but is opposing them both with conflicting opinions. Clear enough?

Aha! Now I'm there - much obliged.

[Dr The Singh]

15 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I'm saying toddybad is accusing webbo of offering conflicting opinions in two threads but is opposing them both with conflicting opinions. Clear enough?

Is Webbo a women??.

[Webbo]

8 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

Is Webbo a women??.

Only at the weekend.

[Dr The Singh]

8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Only at the weekend.

That's when we met.....your a very sexy women.

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, Webbo said:

We all expected some short term financial hit. The truth is the economy has exceeded all predictions. People voted for self determination, money isn't everything.

Then you give me all yours...and I can live happily ever after...

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, fuchsntf said:

Then you give me all yours...and I can live happily ever after...

Surely posting on Foxestalk is all the happiness anyone could need?