Manchester Arena blast

[stripeyfox]

51 minutes ago, Beliall said:

Like how we saw on twitter that Ranieiri donated half his compensation to charity?

Yeah, top bloke Ranieri. But he only did it because Pearson told him to

[yorkie1999]

"The military will be providing armed guards for "key locations" across London including Buckingham Palace, Downing Street, the Palace of Westminster and embassies, Scotland Yard has announced"

 

Hang on, what about the rest of the country. I thought this happened in Manchester.

[Buce]

25 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

Yeah, top bloke Ranieri. But he only did it because Pearson told him to

 

Yeah, but Pearson only told him to on Cambiasso's instructions.

[Jon the Hat]

9 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

"The military will be providing armed guards for "key locations" across London including Buckingham Palace, Downing Street, the Palace of Westminster and embassies, Scotland Yard has announced"

 

Hang on, what about the rest of the country. I thought this happened in Manchester.

The objective of the army assignment is to free up armed police resources for other work, so they will do it where the work involves guarding a known location, relatively simple.

[Jon the Hat]

20 hours ago, Ashley said:

Can someone answer me this please? 

 

Last week a teenager around the age of 14/15 tweets "Wouldn't it be funny if Bradley Lowery dies on his 6th Birthday" or something to that extent. Teenager arrested within the hour.

 

Yesterday the attacker tweets about how he's going to attack the MEN Arena and it goes unnoticed? 

Was there actually any evidence whatsoever that this tweet occurred?

[Matt]

I'm sure it's a huge network right but "ISIS claims responsibility" right ok, so who is ISIS? Where are ISIS? Track whoever claimed responsibility and keep doing so.

 

I'm sure it's not as simple as that but why do we never hear outcomes from whoever claims things after attacks have happened?

 

Like I say maybe it's abit of a simple ideology and I'm sure someone will come back and make me look stupid but educate me.

[stripeyfox]

26 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Was there actually any evidence whatsoever that this tweet occurred?

I think I saw it on facebook, so I assume it must be true, yes...

 

[Ashley]

33 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Was there actually any evidence whatsoever that this tweet occurred?

Yes. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

Apparently there are 3000 potential terrorists in the UK warranting monitoring by intelligence. We need to now start deporting those who are not British Nationals. British Nationals who visit Syria/and or Libya not in the name of aid need to be banned from ever returning to the country, their British passports should be invalidated. The remaining ones who are British citizens should be hung/shot for treason. We need to deal with this properly and pass laws to do so. Everyone is allowed to come to Britain and live here and contribute to our diversity and integrate into ours, people who embrace that and work hard can be whatever they want.

 

I know the weeping heart liberals will cry its not fair what about their human rights blah blah blah but I would rather eradicate 3000 dubious ****s supported by intelligence than have our teenagers bleeding to death on our streets. They dare to bring this shit to our doors and we will **** them up good and proper needs to be the message we send.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

Yes. 

Where? I've struggled to find any.

[Jon the Hat]

5 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Apparently there are 3000 potential terrorists in the UK warranting monitoring by intelligence. We need to now start deporting those who are not British Nationals. British Nationals who visit Syria/and or Libya not in the name of aid need to be banned from ever returning to the country, their British passports should be invalidated. The remaining ones who are British citizens should be hung/shot for treason. We need to deal with this properly and pass laws to do so. Everyone is allowed to come to Britain and live here and contribute to our diversity and integrate into ours, people who embrace that and work hard can be whatever they want.

 

I know the weeping heart liberals will cry its not fair what about their human rights blah blah blah but I would rather eradicate 3000 dubious ****s supported by intelligence than have our teenagers bleeding to death on our streets. They dare to bring this shit to our doors and we will **** them up good and proper needs to be the message we send.

It isn't their human rights I am concerned about, and I am a long way from being a liberal bleeding heart.  In my view you have to be very very careful starting a process whereby you limit civil liberties which apply to all of us, to limit a tiny tiny minority.

[Jon the Hat]

11 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Yes. 

All I can see was huffpost saying they were posted in the US so in fact after the attack not before, confusion over the time stamp.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

4 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It isn't their human rights I am concerned about, and I am a long way from being a liberal bleeding heart.  In my view you have to be very very careful starting a process whereby you limit civil liberties which apply to all of us, to limit a tiny tiny minority.

Surely 3000 religious scumbags are affecting the civil liberties of 60 million people by bring warzones and unreasonable death to our doorsteps, killing our teenagers making people scared to do things that we should be able to do in a free country like go to a concert or a shopping centre. There should never ever be a circumstance where people don't return home from these things.

 

We need to take some action, and serious action that will make a difference.

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Foxin_mad said:

Surely 3000 religious scumbags are affecting the civil liberties of 60 million people by bring warzones to our doorsteps, killing our teenagers making people scared to do things that we should be able to do in a free country like go to a concert or a shopping centre. There should never ever be a circumstance where people don't return home from these things.

 

We need to take some action, and serious action that will make a difference.

Well demonizing 3000 people who may or may not be a risk to anyone would no doubt lead to another 6000 taking their place, so that is definitely making a difference.

[lgfualol]

Well the BBC have put the terrorist's name, his background and picture up on the website.. Now everyone will know who he was which is probably what he wanted, a "martyrdom" and more ammunication a recruiter could use to inspire others. I think this is a bit like school shootings where the perp usually is a loser and wants to do something "to be remembered" except these lot think they'll go to a special place after dying. 

 

There really should be a media blackout when it comes to giving these scumbags an identity. Treat them as nobodies and focus on the victims. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

5 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Well demonizing 3000 people who may or may not be a risk to anyone would no doubt lead to another 6000 taking their place, so that is definitely making a difference.

They are likely to be a huge risk, they will be monitored for good reason. I think if these clowns are made examples of it will stop them there is no evidence that a hard line would create more of them, essentially they are cowards, cowards run away. Nothing else will have an effect they are vermin and need to be treated as such.

 

We need to remove the people preaching hate, the country is too soft on the scum why do people keep making excuses for them (oh he had a hard life blah blah blah, no he was just a religious **** taught bollocks by another religious **** both of whom need removing from the country).

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, lgfualol said:

Well the BBC have put the terrorist's name, his background and picture up on the website.. Now everyone will know who he was which is probably what he wanted, a "martyrdom" and more ammunication a recruiter could use to inspire others. I think this is a bit like school shootings where the perp usually is a loser and wants to do something "to be remembered" except these lot think they'll go to a special place after dying. 

 

There really should be a media blackout when it comes to giving these scumbags an identity. Treat them as nobodies and focus on the victims. 

Agree with focusing on the victims entirely, but the public have a right to know the identities of criminals and the crimes they've perpetrated. It'd be a very strange society we lived in if we didn't do that.

 

Thought by and large the media did very well with the Westminster Bridge attack reaction. Only one or two irresponsible outlets went big on the attacker's background, most provided the right amount of information without glamourising.

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Foxin_mad said:

They are likely to be a huge risk. I think if these clowns are made examples of it will stop them there is no evidence that a hard line would create more of them, essentially they are cowards, cowards run away. Nothing else will have an effect they are vermin and need to be treated as such.

 

We need to remove the people preaching hate, the country is too soft on the scum.

We already have laws against preaching hate, and yes they should be jailed or deported if they are not British nationals.  If we had evidence that the 3000 were criminals, they would already be in court or jail, what you are suggesting is that the suspicion of a crime be enough to sentence someone to deportation or jail.  You don't think that would massively increase the sense of injustice in a part of the community already vulnerable to radicalization?  Your "we must do something" reaction is completely understandable, but this is how terrible policies are made.

[yorkie1999]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

We already have laws against preaching hate, and yes they should be jailed or deported if they are not British nationals.  If we had evidence that the 3000 were criminals, they would already be in court or jail, what you are suggesting is that the suspicion of a crime be enough to sentence someone to deportation or jail.  You don't think that would massively increase the sense of injustice in a part of the community already vulnerable to radicalization?  Your "we must do something" reaction is completely understandable, but this is how terrible policies are made.

Surely after whats happened, the suspicion of being a terrorist, especially if they've visited libya or syria in the last 12 months is enough to warrant an investigation, if nothing else but to let that person know they are being watched.   

[Guest Foxin_mad]

15 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

We already have laws against preaching hate, and yes they should be jailed or deported if they are not British nationals.  If we had evidence that the 3000 were criminals, they would already be in court or jail, what you are suggesting is that the suspicion of a crime be enough to sentence someone to deportation or jail.  You don't think that would massively increase the sense of injustice in a part of the community already vulnerable to radicalization?  Your "we must do something" reaction is completely understandable, but this is how terrible policies are made.

The current laws do not work. Jailing them does nothing, in fact many are radicalised (further) in prison.

 

Why do these idiots have a sense of injustice in their community? we have given them freedom and opportunity, its their own choice if they want to bury themselves in a nonsensical belief, what they must know is that in taking that path they will not be tolerated and treated as the lowest from of life which they are, I would think that would be  quite a good deterrent. Everyone can make a choice. If we make a proper job of removing the preachers they wont be able to indoctrinate people.

 

We can not at the moment use intelligence to convict them in court even if we have a pretty good idea they are up to no good, something needs to change in that respect. Putting them in prison is just a waste of resources they must be properly dealt with, these people are not humans they are vermin.

 

Anyone travelling to ISIS countries not in the name of aid should never be allowed to return to this country and citizenship should be stripped.

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Surely after whats happened, the suspicion of being a terrorist, especially if they've visited libya or syria in the last 12 months is enough to warrant an investigation, if nothing else but to let that person know they are being watched.   

I agree, and we should no doubt provide more resources to the intelligence services to gather that evidence needed to prosecute, but we still need to have evidence that stands in a court of law.

[Ashley]

34 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Where? I've struggled to find any.

I'll try and find it again. First one reads something like don't forget our threat, second #manchesterarena

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

The current laws do not work. Jailing them does nothing, in fact many are radicalised (further) in prison.

 

Why do these idiots have a sense of injustice in their community? we have given them freedom and opportunity, its their own choice if they want to bury themselves in a nonsensical belief, what they must know is that in taking that path they will not be tolerated, I would think that would be  quite a good deterrent.

 

We can not at the moment use intelligence to convict them in court even if we have a pretty good idea they are up to no good, something needs to change in that respect. Putting them in prison is just a waste of resources they must be properly dealt with, these people are not humans they are vermin.

 

Anyone travelling to ISIS countries not in the name of aid should never be allowed to return to this country and citizenship should be stripped.

 

 

You are overreacting, these people want us to remove our freedoms and liberties. This apart from being incredibly dangerous, is playing right into their hands.

[Innovindil]

12 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

We already have laws against preaching hate, and yes they should be jailed or deported if they are not British nationals.  If we had evidence that the 3000 were criminals, they would already be in court or jail, what you are suggesting is that the suspicion of a crime be enough to sentence someone to deportation or jail.  You don't think that would massively increase the sense of injustice in a part of the community already vulnerable to radicalization?  Your "we must do something" reaction is completely understandable, but this is how terrible policies are made.

I definitely agree with you, however, I'd like to know where the point is that the scale tips. How many attacks do we deal with before the "we must do something" becomes necessary? 

 

Not belittling the loss, it's tragic ofcourse, but a few dozen people over 2 attacks is a speck of our population, but what happens if it was 10 attacks and a thousand dead? 100 attacks and ten thousand dead? If this really is just the beginning, how far does it get before we snap? 

 

There is a problem with radicalisation in the UK. Someone needs to come up with a viable solution soon or the unviable ones will look better with each attack, and that's probably the saddest thing of all. 

[Rincewind]

I wrote this some time ago as a pessimistic  view of the world if we do not seek peaceful solutions to conflicts.

 

https://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1684692-Earths-Last-Battle