Manchester Arena blast

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, MPH said:

I believe that's already happened 

Well, considering what's just happened perhaps it needs to be said again in a louder voice so that everyone understands?

 

(Unless you're saying that it's only just been done and hopefully there will be no stuck screwups henceforth.)

[yorkie1999]

Don't know whether it's a load of rubbish but someone told me all these attacks is happen on the 22nd. Seems a load of rubbish

[Trav Le Bleu]

Amazing the stuff you hear after these tragic events. At work someone commented that the bomber, "probably thought he was going to heaven and getting crystal virgins."

 

It took me a couple of minutes, but I finally worked out that he meant Vestal Virgins. So I told him so and informed him they were a sacred order of ancient Rome and nothing to do with Islam.

 

So today he was making the same comment, but this time it was 'vestigial' virgins. So... virgins who are not quite virgins anymore.

 

I'd laugh, but it's tragic. For all the nutters who don't get it and do terrible acts, there's thousands of people who don't get it, but thankfully aren't as resourceful, motivated or unhinged.

[MPH]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

I'm clearly talking about this incident. You don't think us sharing info with their intelligence services and it then turning up in their papers - when we have purposely not released it publically - isn't a problem? Or are you too busy being pedantic over foxestalk posts to consider it?

Well if you're just talking about this one incident, what on earth do you mean by ' constantly leaking information' ?

 

that doesn't make sense

[Facecloth]

20 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Don't know whether it's a load of rubbish but someone told me all these attacks is happen on the 22nd. Seems a load of rubbish

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_in_Europe_(2014–present)

 

Since 2014, two other attacks in Europe on the 22nd. Brussels and Westminster. Don't think it's a pattern tbh.

[Ross-Kemp]

Lee Rigby - 22/05/2013

Brussels attack - 22/03/16

Munich attack - 22/07/16

London attack - 22/03/17

Manchester attack - 22/05/17

 

[Jattdogg]

Clearly we should be vigilant on he 22nd.  Winder if the day has any significance

[Guest]

6 hours ago, MPH said:

Well if you're just talking about this one incident, what on earth do you mean by ' constantly leaking information' ?

 

that doesn't make sense

If you want to discuss the leaks, I'm happy to do so.

If you want to be pedantic about the wording I've used to describe those leaks - described as a stream within the media - then you can do one. 

[Facecloth]

6 hours ago, Ross-Kemp said:

Lee Rigby - 22/05/2013

Brussels attack - 22/03/16

Munich attack - 22/07/16

London attack - 22/03/17

Manchester attack - 22/05/17

 

Munich was the 24th of July.

 

There is clearly no pattern.

[Babylon]

17 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

On second reading, there's nothing actually inaccurate about the Cosmo or Mirror headlines. Entirely possible there aren't actually any Muslim taxi drivers who were involved and wanted to be photographed.

 

That said, for the sake of clarity I'd have left the religion off those involved off the headline (let's face it, it's not what's important to most of us - "Manc cabbies being good eggs in time of crisis" is what matters).

I wonder how many actually did offer free taxis. Same as how many people actually opened their doors to strangers in need. Both things seem en vogue now to say on social media immediately after an attack and repeated endlessly without much evidence of it happening.

 

Just like all the "you picked on the wrong city", "this place is special", quirky hashtags, cartoons, "pray for...", "stop killing people" signs, go fund me accounts etc. 

 

As someone else said, it's almost like it's enjoyed in a twisted way, giving everyone the chance to show they are the most upset and disgusted.

 

It's not enough now to be just upset about it privately.

[Webbo]

26 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I wonder how many actually did offer free taxis. Same as how many people actually opened their doors to strangers in need. Both things seem en vogue now to say on social media immediately after an attack and repeated endlessly without much evidence of it happening.

 

Just like all the "you picked on the wrong city", "this place is special", quirky hashtags, cartoons, "pray for...", "stop killing people" signs, go fund me accounts etc. 

 

As someone else said, it's almost like it's enjoyed in a twisted way, giving everyone the chance to show they are the most upset and disgusted.

 

It's not enough now to be just upset about it privately.

Absolutely spot on .

[Nick]

I'm not sure I like the way this thread is cynically turning...

[SpacedX]

16 hours ago, Foxin_mad said:

I think that the 3000 people being monitored are a risk. In my opinion you don't get monitored for nothing you must have done something wrong. This should included people watching following etc. ISIS propaganda.

1. Non British Nationals should be deported to their home country regardless of their human rights there who gives a ****

2. Radical Clerics should be deported or left to rot in solitary confinement

3. British Nationals who leave the country to fight in Syria/Iraq/Libya etc. should never be allowed back, their identity here should be destroyed.

4. British Nationals identified as a risk should be left to rot confinement

 

We must send a clear message. We will not tolerate vermin in our society who wish to blow up our children.

The curtailing of Western Human Rights is precisely what their puppet masters are seeking by inflicting this chaos. 

Human rights are not the gift of politicians and bureaucrats they are absolute. They are deontological - our birthright – part of our common humanity and in the interest of a decent civilised society, they need to be preserved and protected against the abuse of power. Such liberty we must fight for. In 1998, the Human Rights Act was passed. Though far from perfect, this enables everyone to bring complaints of UK human rights violations (other than by parliament itself) in British courts. We rely on the act and the convention to protect everyone, popular and reviled, against abuses of public power. In the absence of a written constitution, the act and the convention are the bedrock of our democracy based on the rule of law. A new-fangled British bill of rights is fraught with danger. A bill crafted by the present government may deprive victims of the right to seek redress from Strasbourg or weaken protection against the abuse of parliamentary powers.

The erosion of civil rights in the occident is precisely what these people are seeking. they win, you lose. It's a very dangerous and dark path. Some regard Russia as a virtual totalitarian police state which has nonetheless has still been fraught by terrorist atrocities today, largely perpetrated by rebel groups and Islamist factions in the North Caucasus, but beyond this, the incidence of terrorism has a long history dating back to the Russian Empire.

 

We need to challenge and eradicate radicalism from within. Repression will only fuel the fire and produce more partisan pawns for the grandmasters to deploy. The most important 'P' of the CONTEST strategy is 'prevent'. More terrorist plots have been foiled through community vigilance than any other measure. 

 

A decade and a half ago, Finsbury Park and Al Mujajiroun gave such vile extremism a voice in the UK. Abu Hamza, Omar Bakri Muhammad, Abu Qatada and more recently Anjem Chowdhury - in all cases free speech was the rope that hung these people. 

[Merging Cultures]

What the **** is going on with the yanks constantly leaking information to their press? First the name of the attacker and now pictures of parts of the device. Hopefully trump's hand holder may will give him hell over it but somehow i doubt it. There should be a real diplomatic showdown over it. They leaked the name before our police wanted it in the public domain. 

BBC reporting the Police are no longer sharing info with the US.

Clearly someone in the WH has been responsible for the leaks, trying to spin a story to deflect from what is going on there. The intelligence community wouldn't be that dumb to put something out before we wanted it revealed.

It's disgusting that they would compromise the UK's safety like that.

[Thracian]

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-40038971

 

 

 

What a sad testimony to laws and activists in this country which and who continually thwart the ability of various authorities to deal with all and any threats to this country, including the always strident voices on here. Doubtless it is not their youngsters who are lying in a morgue today.

 

Seems as if almost every killer terrorist is "known" but left on the streets by authorities who fail to take the responsibility they need to. Or is it sometimes that they choose not to act so as to glean more information and make a greater number of arrests further down the line and to hell with those who are killed in the meantime?

 

We go on about how we need to look after the sick, the poor and those who hide among others to come to this country with no love for it whatsoever, but we let our own youngsters get ripped to shreds by people we know and expect to do just that.

 

In letting them or their parents settle here, without due diligence which so often seems to be lacking,  we become party to the killings and the maimings and to all the consequent misery. But still we do it and wash our hands of those consequences.   

 

It's a disgrace and there's no excuse. If we can't be diligent and take responsibility for sorting good/or compatible,  from bad or incompatible, then close the gates until we can and will.   

 

Because when even the Manchester attrocity  blows over there will be more repeats and more excuses.

More social manipulation and pretence that our enemies are, or will be, our friends and that people with a declared agenda will somehow be persuaded to look at things differently. They won't and only idiots wearing mental blinkers insist that they will.      

 

And make no mistake mental blinkers are real.

 

There are seemingly intelligent people out there who don't believe evil exists and who refuse to accept evil when it stares them in the face, For them there is always a reason, a way of mending people. There probably isn't and who should recklessly take the time to do so if there is. 

 

Because what's is the point of mending anyone if first they're allowed and facilitated in the taking of the lives or health/happiness  of so many others first, and second and for as long as they can get way with it while being effectively excused by their apologist "friends"?.

 

What matters isn't the next world,  and the pretence of knowing what God wants.

 

It's keeping our kids safe in this world today from the sort of sad, misguided souls who bomb innocent kids at concerts?

 

I sometimes wonder if these people have proper parents who actually care about the damage sustained brainwashing does to their offspring (whoever actually evolves the brainwashing) as they walk the world in the black and grey that seems to so reflect the bleakness of their souls.   

 

If by some warped thinking the terrorists were serving "God" then "God's" welcome to them and to any kind of paradise "he" supposedly reserves for them.

 

But really God's name is sinfully being taken in vain.

 

By the bombers and by the parents, associates and other manipulators of the bombers who sew the seeds of fanatisism, hatred and misguided ideas. Not for God. But for power and control and perhaps even out of fear. Just as some men have always done and have always found followers to back them like sheep.

 

It's time for vision and leadership in our land.

 

And I can't see a real leader anywhere because democracy dilutes leadership and offers nothing but argument in return. We don't need strong "opposition" we need someone to show the way because we're lost right now.  

 

 

  

 

       

 

 

[Simi]

Aside from the obvious, one thing I find incredibly disheartening about all of this is just how much it actually DOES divide our country. Obviously social media is a bit of a vacuum but it's incredibly sad to see negative / abusive / offensive replies to people just trying to do some good in situations like this. Whether it be trying to raise some money and being accused of doing it for yourself, raising money for a homeless man and having people say "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER GUY?", or merely a well wish that becomes misconstrued as meaning something else, Jason Manford's tweet a perfect example.

 

The left / right divide is more in focus than I've ever seen and people are just constantly trying to point score against each other with the usual phrases they've seen on the Mail website. There is no middle ground anymore, they've been pitted against each other and like it or not, is causing us to be divided as a nation. 

[Guest MattP]

Is it really big news there is an IS terror cell in Manchester? I'd have thought it was pretty obvious given how many fighters have gone to fight for them from the city. 

 

Some media reporting that we are now refusing to share anymore intelligence with the Americans on this due to the leaks.

 

 

[Kitchandro]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

I wonder how many actually did offer free taxis. Same as how many people actually opened their doors to strangers in need. Both things seem en vogue now to say on social media immediately after an attack and repeated endlessly without much evidence of it happening.

 

Just like all the "you picked on the wrong city", "this place is special", quirky hashtags, cartoons, "pray for...", "stop killing people" signs, go fund me accounts etc. 

 

As someone else said, it's almost like it's enjoyed in a twisted way, giving everyone the chance to show they are the most upset and disgusted.

 

It's not enough now to be just upset about it privately.

I'm sick of people coming out after these attacks and saying stuff like 'terrorism will not break us'. Yeh, tell that to the families of the victims. I can assure you they are broken.

[Guest MattP]

14 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

I'm sick of people coming out after these attacks and saying stuff like 'terrorism will not break us'. Yeh, tell that to the families of the victims. I can assure you they are broken.

It's weird this has now become the standard reaction to innocent people being mass murdered. Then we finish the vigils, go back to Facebook, wait for the next attack and then repeat. 

 

So many people now seem to saying this though so maybe people are getting sick of it.

 

I don't think it's productive either, it let's the people off the hook who are responsible, politicians rarely act on anything unless people are angry.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

It's weird this has now become the standard reaction to innocent people being mass murdered. Then we finish the vigils, go back to Facebook, wait for the next attack and then repeat. 

 

So many people now seem to saying this though so maybe people are getting sick of it.

 

I don't think it's productive either, it let's the people off the hook who are responsible, politicians rarely act on anything unless people are angry.

Seems it is the only thing we can do accept living in fear, deal with it in the best way we can and move on until the next one. Its peoples rather unfortunate coping mechanism. There will always be a next one because we are too scared of treading ion the toes of a potential terrorist and hurting its feelings.  

 

Communities will continue not to tell anyone when the see the 'face of hate', we will continue to allow people to return from ISIS strongholds, we will continue to allow people into our country who do not share our values.

 

Unless we change something soon, there will be a massive problem in years to come when the pent up anger suddenly erupts within normal people

[Rincewind]

Yesterday someone posted a meme which was praising all the staff of the NHS that helped out and posted Thank goodness for the NHS.  Earlier they posted a link to Britain first which asked should we deport Muslim suspects and they posted Yes send the *nts back and all their %%%^^^ing families.  I wonder if they know that many doctors and nurses are muslim?

[Innovindil]

4 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

Yesterday someone posted a meme which was praising all the staff of the NHS that helped out and posted Thank goodness for the NHS.  Earlier they posted a link to Britain first which asked should we deport Muslim suspects and they posted Yes send the *nts back and all their %%%^^^ing families.  I wonder if they know that many doctors and nurses are muslim?

Muslim suspects = Muslim doctors and nurses? 

[Strokes]

All this deport them nonsense is pretty futile, they are mostly British nationals, it's our problem to deal with. We need to understand why these 2ns/3rd generation immigrants are so easy to turn against us and our way of life. Why they hate us and stop the huge amount of potential terrorists in the future, otherwise it looks pretty bleak.

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

I'm not sure I like the way this thread is cynically turning...

Cynical is middle middle name... actually it's Dave, but I might change it.

[Rincewind]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

Muslim suspects = Muslim doctors and nurses? 

Sorry I should have made it clearer. They were also posting deport all Muslims because they are all the same.

I mentioned in a post  that what happened here was not exclusive to us and that in April 68 children were killed when a bus envoy they were part of was hit by bombers in Syria. Their reply? Well if they dont care about our kids why should i care about theirs? So the Manchester bomber had fathered 68 children before reaching 22? The fact that the envoy were evacuees trying to get away from terrorists did not register.