Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

if you want a party that is for less state interference and lower taxes who do you vote for?

 

You leave the country. The Conservatives are the party of the nanny state these days.

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

Tbf there is good and bad in this.

 

He's made the right decision which is a good thing.

 

But they prevaricated for a week and waited for the poor lad to be hospitalised to make the decision which isn't a good thing.

 

This is neither 'Tories good' nor 'Tories bad'.  

 

 

It was confiscated on Monday and returned on Saturday, whilst not perfect by any means, I don’t think we can hold much of a grudge. The right thing was done in the end.

[breadandcheese]

I think the majority can agree that the NHS needs more funding and people need to contribute more towards it in our working lives as the complexity of care we will receive in later life is far more costly than envisioned even 20 years ago.

 

However I don't like what is currently an unfunded promise by the government. I would be slating Corbyn and his cronies for it and will equally slate the government for doing the same irresponsible thing. Ridiculous unfunded politics.

[Buce]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

TM announces roughly £350m a week increase in NHS funding...  anyone?

 

Paid for by tax rises but spun as a ‘Brexit bonanza’. 

[Guest MattP]

12 hours ago, Facecloth said:

It's not something I'd go to and I'm not a huge Corbyn fan, but we hear people bemoan the public's lack of interest in politics and we've just had a few thousand people spend an afternoon talking about, so we shouldn't complain or laugh at it.

Let's be quite honest, this wasn't organised to get people into politics at all, it was organised to continue to underpin the cult of Corbyn. It's quite frankly very weird.

 

[Innovindil]

HUZZAH for common sense finally breaking through over this kids medication! 

 

Now sort the drug laws out for good! 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

I think the majority can agree that the NHS needs more funding and people need to contribute more towards it in our working lives as the complexity of care we will receive in later life is far more costly than envisioned even 20 years ago.

 

However I don't like what is currently an unfunded promise by the government. I would be slating Corbyn and his cronies for it and will equally slate the government for doing the same irresponsible thing. Ridiculous unfunded politics.

In the old days there'd have been a plan to get the country growing to fund spending. Now that's seen as left wing dogma.

 

Or taxes would go up to pay for spending. That's apparently also left wing lunacy these days.

 

Sooner or later the Tories need to admit to themselves that you can't have low taxes AND low expenditure AND quality public services. 

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

In the old days there'd have been a plan to get the country growing to fund spending. Now that's seen as left wing dogma. 

 

Or taxes would go up to pay for spending. That's apparently also left wing lunacy these days.

That's because every time it has been tried by the left they fcuked it up and left a financial mess behind.

 

If creating growth was as easy as you think it is you lot would get 90% of the vote, you don't because it isn't that easy. It it was every country in the World would just borrow, spend and watch the riches flow in.

[Facecloth]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

Let's be quite honest, this wasn't organised to get people into politics at all, it was organised to continue to underpin the cult of Corbyn. It's quite frankly very weird.

 

Probably, I have no idea, I had no interest in going. Point is you've been one of the more vocal on here to complain about people not taking an interest in politics, so whether it's a Corbyn love in or not, at least people are getting into it. I'd rather people take an interest and be informed whatever their leaning.

[Kopfkino]

4 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 

 

Sooner or later the Tories need to admit to themselves that you can't have low taxes AND low expenditure AND quality public services. 

 

The Swiss manage. It's quite lazy to suggest it's not possible. That over £800bn isn't enough is down to sheer waste. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

The Swiss manage. It's quite lazy to suggest it's not possible. That over £800bn isn't enough is down to sheer waste. 

I would think over time you could reduce spending if you had 10-20 years of  joined up higher expenditure first. 

 

For example, if you linked educational outcomes, quality of housing, sporting opportunities, food education etc then the knock on might be lower spending on welfare and NHS in the future. 

 

But we haven't had any joined up thinking so it's hard to reduce spend without catastrophic outcomes.

[breadandcheese]

32 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 

Sooner or later the Tories need to admit to themselves that you can't have low taxes AND low expenditure AND quality public services. 

Most Tories I know are prepared to forego consumption for additional spending on vital services that need investment. The quid pro quo is that the additional tax money isn't going to pay for inefficiencies within the system. 

 

Edited 17 June 2018 by breadandcheese

[lifted*fox]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Pretty much spot on this.

 

Unfortunately some on here just can't get past "evil Tory bastards" whatever the situation.

 

Or you can continue to just ignore the fact that they've been keeping a natural source of medication from a young boy that prevents him from having hundreds of seizures a day whilst the husband of some cvnt in your beloved Tory party ships out millions of pounds worth of UK grown medicinal cannabis for huge profit.

 

Open your eyes for once a little Matt.

 

There's literally millions of people in this country on prescription opiates / painkillers who could benefit from a change in the law regarding medicinal cannabis - as is starting to happen around the world. We're so far behind we're in the dark ages. Whilst the average man can buy weed with zero issue any day of the week from the street (for recreational use) the family of a sick boy have to have 'exception power' used by the government before they will allow him access to a ****ing OIL? 

 

It ain't like she had a half an ounce of finest cali tied around her waist. Now we're going to make a hero out of Javid for using his 'exceptional power' to give it back to her? It's absolute jokes.

 

Rightly so, many other people in the same predicament (including another family denied access to similar meds by Teresa May a few months back) are starting to speak up. Hopefully this is something that is going to have to change soon. 

[lifted*fox]

49 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It was confiscated on Monday and returned on Saturday, whilst not perfect by any means, I don’t think we can hold much of a grudge. The right thing was done in the end.

 

hey mate, yes - whilst the right conclusion has been finally been reached in this instance they've made it very clear it was an exception to the rule and only via 'exceptional power'. this one young man and his issues are shared by many, many others  - not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who are currently prescribed and addicted to prescription opiate painkillers for ailments that could otherwise be treated by medicinal cannabis. we only have to look at the massive drop in opiate painkiller use and addiction in the US since medicinal cannabis has been made available to see that the entire law in the UK needs an overhaul. 

 

we can't afford to give medicine back to one boy and then sweep this under the carpet. 

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, lifted*fox said:

Or you can continue to just ignore the fact that they've been keeping a natural source of medication from a young boy that prevents him from having hundreds of seizures a day whilst the husband of some cvnt in your beloved Tory party ships out millions of pounds worth of UK grown medicinal cannabis for huge profit.

 

Open your eyes for once a little Matt.

They've identified a problem and rectified it, not really sure what more you want, a complete change in the law may be necessary but you need proper legislation to do that, carefully as well as there are no shortage of scumbags around who'll use stuff like this as low hanging fruit to try and justify legalisation for recreational use. 

 

Name names, who is that making money from it?

 

Then I'll happily call out the hypocrite if they are anything to do with the party. 

[lifted*fox]

47 minutes ago, MattP said:

Let's be quite honest, this wasn't organised to get people into politics at all, it was organised to continue to underpin the cult of Corbyn. It's quite frankly very weird.

 

 

Your belittlement of the Labour party's attempts to engage with young people via a bit of music in a park seems pretty bitter and OTT tbh m8. 

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, lifted*fox said:

 

hey mate, yes - whilst the right conclusion has been finally been reached in this instance they've made it very clear it was an exception to the rule and only via 'exceptional power'. this one young man and his issues are shared by many, many others  - not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who are currently prescribed and addicted to prescription opiate painkillers for ailments that could otherwise be treated by medicinal cannabis. we only have to look at the massive drop in opiate painkiller use and addiction in the US since medicinal cannabis has been made available to see that the entire law in the UK needs an overhaul. 

 

we can't afford to give medicine back to one boy and then sweep this under the carpet. 

I agree with you but even an exception is progress and an acknowledgment that it has benefits. The genie is out of the bottle now.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

 

Your belittlement of the Labour party's attempts to engage with young people via a bit of music in a park seems pretty bitter and OTT tbh m8. 

Mainly because everybody associated with the tory party knows it's dying as it's membership gets older and older and withers away.

[purpleronnie]

55 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Paid for by tax rises but spun as a ‘Brexit bonanza’. 

Some have already fell for it.

 

[Innovindil]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

They've identified a problem and rectified it, not really sure what more you want, a complete change in the law may be necessary but you need proper legislation to do that, carefully as well as there are no shortage of scumbags around who'll use stuff like this as low hanging fruit to try and justify legalisation for recreational use. 

 

Name names, who is that making money from it?

 

Then I'll happily call out the hypocrite if they are anything to do with the party. 

Don't need anything like this to justify legalisation of recreational use tbh. The facts around cannabis do that already. 

[lifted*fox]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

They've identified a problem and rectified it, not really sure what more you want, a complete change in the law may be necessary but you need proper legislation to do that, carefully as well as there are no shortage of scumbags around who'll use stuff like this as low hanging fruit to try and justify legalisation for recreational use. 

 

Name names, who is that making money from it?

 

Then I'll happily call out the hypocrite if they are anything to do with the party. 

 

you sound like you're still brainwashed by 70's anti-marijuana propaganda and have point-blank chosen to ignore all of the statistics that show weed to be a safer recreational drug compared to alcohol, which I'm sure you enjoy plenty of. 

 

as for the info it's out there - google it, I've already posted links to it in the 'legalise cannabis' thread.

[Claridge]

51 minutes ago, toddybad said:

In the old days there'd have been a plan to get the country growing to fund spending. Now that's seen as left wing dogma.

 

Or taxes would go up to pay for spending. That's apparently also left wing lunacy these days.

 

Sooner or later the Tories need to admit to themselves that you can't have low taxes AND low expenditure AND quality public services. 

We haven't got low taxes. If you add them all up it's over 50% of many peoples' income.The 20 billion will just go down the public sector plug hole

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Mainly because everybody associated with the tory party knows it's dying as it's membership gets older and older and withers away.

Nothing a good short stint of socialism won't solve!

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

Don't need anything like this to justify legalisation of recreational use tbh. The facts around cannabis do that already. 

 

His use of the word ‘scumbags’ tells you all you need to know about Tory attitudes to cannabis. 

 

Ironically, he’s probably pissed. 

[Sharpe's Fox]

If we can create a culture and effectively a religion around education and industrial policy like we have the NHS we can effectively form the foundations of a fully socialist state. Can’t wait.