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DJ Barry Hammond

Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

By DJ Barry Hammond, in General Chat

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DANGEROUS TIGER

DANGEROUS TIGER

Posted
Posted
On ‎11‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 12:44, Donut said:

Weve stuffed up. We hide behind "sovereignty" as the reason.

 

Sovereignty cant be quantified thankfully.

 

All the things that can be quantified like forecasted growth, the customs plans, reductions in trade....they show we will be stuffed.

 

Facts vs Feelings. Feelings won. Everyone suffers. 

You are a full blown pessimist, and may I say, one large bag of wind as well. All very sad, methinks.

Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, MattP said:

Either OzLeicester is now the editor of the Guardian or it's going full clickbait....

 

The Guardian these days is a strange mixture of really good journalism, low-quality preaching to the converted and utter hypocrisy.

 

Saturday before last, they ran a big interview with Rose McGowan, the actress who was one of Harvey Weinstein's main accusers.

It made a big deal of how she'd publicised a casting note that asked actresses applying for a role to show lots of cleavage and wear push-up bras.

Might well have been a good point to publicise (depending on the acting role in question).....

 

But, on the front page of the paper they had this photo of Grace Dent, promoting a humorous foodie article (or, more likely, encouraging a few extra sales to leches):

I mean, as a lecherous old hetero man who appreciates an ample bosom, I'm not complaining, but isn't there a little bit of hypocrisy here..... lol

Grace Dent

purpleronnie

purpleronnie

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, MattP said:

The Lisbon treaty in 2008 was the big game changer, not just the impact of the actual document but the re-running and overturning of individual states deciding against it through referendum, that was when many realised just what sort of organisation this was and what it's intentions were.

 

Ironically given today's actions, the Lib Dems did a parliamentary walkout just over ten years ago at the decision not to allow MPs to debate it and vote on a Lib Dem call for a referendum to be held on the UK's membership of the EU - quite incredible given the party position now.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7265516.stm

A big game changer for whom?  Not the vast majority of people in the UK who probably never took any notice. I can't remember the EU  suddenly becoming a being a major issue in the 2010 election, what did ukip get 2-3%?  But maybe i'm misremembering.

 

Although it's Funny how the Lisbon treaty was naturally a big story in Ireland, but they still remain very pro EU....oh and didn't they have a 2nd referendum on it.;)

purpleronnie

purpleronnie

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ok so if people had to guess right now what do people thing the end result will be?  Will we stay in the customs union? Will be get a deal with Europe as good as we have now? Will we just say FU EU we're off screw you mo fo's, will negotiations just become dead locked and WTO rules kick in,  What will happen with the irish border problem?

Edited by purpleronnie
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

I was struggling to work out the degree of sarcasm he was employing tbh.

CarbonVirtine

CarbonVirtine

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Ok so if people had to guess right now what do people thing the end result will be?  Will we stay in the customs union? Will be get a deal with Europe as good as we have now? Will we just say FU EU we're off screw you mo fo's, will negotiations just become dead locked and WTO rules kick in,  What will happen with the irish border problem?

 

It's one helluva question.

 

Brexit is twisting and turning like the plot of a surreal thriller. Who knows where it'll go? It's near on impossible to predict the next turn let alone an outcome. There's a lot to get through in very little time, you just can't see how it's going to fly. If it wasn't so damned important then it'd be thrilling, but it's actually really quite worrying. I don't think there's a resolution that will keep the vast majority happy, really I don't.

Edited by CarbonVirtine
Countryfox

Countryfox

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

The Guardian these days is a strange mixture of really good journalism, low-quality preaching to the converted and utter hypocrisy.

 

Saturday before last, they ran a big interview with Rose McGowan, the actress who was one of Harvey Weinstein's main accusers.

It made a big deal of how she'd publicised a casting note that asked actresses applying for a role to show lots of cleavage and wear push-up bras.

Might well have been a good point to publicise (depending on the acting role in question).....

 

But, on the front page of the paper they had this photo of Grace Dent, promoting a humorous foodie article (or, more likely, encouraging a few extra sales to leches):

I mean, as a lecherous old hetero man who appreciates an ample bosom, I'm not complaining, but isn't there a little bit of hypocrisy here..... lol

Grace Dent

 

Politics ...   I love politics me !! ...   great thread ...      sorry Alf, what were you saying ?? ...   :)

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

The Guardian these days is a strange mixture of really good journalism, low-quality preaching to the converted and utter hypocrisy.

 

Saturday before last, they ran a big interview with Rose McGowan, the actress who was one of Harvey Weinstein's main accusers.

It made a big deal of how she'd publicised a casting note that asked actresses applying for a role to show lots of cleavage and wear push-up bras.

Might well have been a good point to publicise (depending on the acting role in question).....

 

But, on the front page of the paper they had this photo of Grace Dent, promoting a humorous foodie article (or, more likely, encouraging a few extra sales to leches):

I mean, as a lecherous old hetero man who appreciates an ample bosom, I'm not complaining, but isn't there a little bit of hypocrisy here..... lol

Grace Dent

I saw this and it was the first time I've ever thought Grace Dent looks quite tasty ?

 

18 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Ok so if people had to guess right now what do people thing the end result will be?  Will we stay in the customs union? Will be get a deal with Europe as good as we have now? Will we just say FU EU we're off screw you mo fo's, will negotiations just become dead locked and WTO rules kick in,  What will happen with the irish border problem?

 

I've got absolutely no idea tbh. I half think we'll stay in everything and half think we'll crash out. But then the most likely things seems to be some sort of fudge that nobody is happy with. So I need two votes in total.

Edited by Guest
Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

@Alf Bentley - That Grace Dent article was really good.

 

Bought the Sunday Times for the first time a while on the weekend. Made me realise how much of a crying shame that level of quality content is stuck behind a paywall.

Great read isn't it, it wouldn't have that much quality content if it wasn't though.

 

You only have to look at the Mail and the Guardian now, free news becomes clickbait and the standard of the columnists gets worse and worse.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

Interesting to see that 15 Labour MP's defied the whip to vote against the EEA yesterday, I think Mrs May needs to be a bit stronger here, if there are only 20 potential Tory rebels that makes the mathematics fine for her.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/labour-suffers-mass-revolt-as-90-mps-defy-corbyn-on-brexit-mg9vxh6bh
 

Quote

Jeremy Corbyn suffered the biggest rebellion of his leadership last night as 90 Labour MPs defied his instructions in a crucial Brexit vote.

One frontbencher quit along with five parliamentary aides after the Labour leader ordered his MPs to abstain in the Commons over whether Britain should remain in the single market. In the event 75 backbenchers supported the motion to remain in the European Economic Area (EEA) and 15 voted to leave it.

Mr Corbyn and Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, had wanted the party to vote for an alternative plan, which would have kept “full access” to the single market without having the obligations of membership. The proposal did not satisfy his pro-EU or Brexit-supporting MPs and the row led to Laura Smith resigning as a shadow Cabinet Office minister so that she could vote against the EEA. She has a majority of only 48 in her Leave-voting constituency of Crewe & Nantwich.

 

Five other MPs who were shadow cabinet aides also quit: Ged Killen, Ellie Reeves, Rosie Duffield, Tonia Antoniazzi and Anna McMorrin.

The rebellion was the biggest since 66 Labour MPs defied Mr Corbyn and voted for airstrikes in Syria in December 2015. In a vote before Christmas, 64 Labour MPs voted to stay in the single market against their leader’s wishes.

 

Mr Corbyn faced an assault from two sides of his party. Caroline Flint, one of the 15 who voted to leave the single market, said that Britain could not stay in because the EU referendum was a vote to end free movement. Pat McFadden, who voted to stay in the single market, said that anything else would be “unwise and rash”. In a statement last night Mr Corbyn said: “I understand the difficulties MPs representing constituencies which voted strongly for Leave or Remain have on the EEA amendment to the EU withdrawal bill. The Labour Party respects the outcome of the EU referendum and does not support the EEA or Norway model as it is not the right for option for Britain.”

Only three Tory MPs voted against their party and in favour of staying in the single market and No 10 appeared on the brink of a deal with pro-Remain Tory rebels.

 

 

Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, MattP said:

Either OzLeicester is now the editor of the Guardian or it's going full clickbait....

Women shun cycling because of safety, not helmet hair

Helen Pidd
Helen Pidd

Roads designed by men are killing women – and stop millions from cycling.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/13/safety-women-cycling-roads

 

 

Tbf to the Grauniad, they did a pretty good article the other day about The Donald you'd have quite liked. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/13/trump-nafta-g7-sunset-clause-trade-agreement

  • Like 2
Guest Kopfkino

Guest Kopfkino

Posted
Posted

Poll alert. Go forth and wet your pants. 

 

Only 21 per cent believe that the government is doing well in the negotiations, with 66 per cent thinking ministers are doing badly. The net score of minus 45 per cent is the lowest in a YouGov poll, down from minus 39 points two weeks ago.

 

However, Mrs May has mildly extended her lead as best prime minister over Jeremy Corbyn to 15 points. Some 39 per cent said she was the more suitable for the job, up 2 points, compared to 24 per cent for the Labour leader.

 

The public still put the Tories ahead of Labour as the party of choice to deliver Brexit. Some 26 per cent chose the Tories, 16 per cent would choose Labour and 10 per cent would pick Ukip.

 

Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kopfkino said:

Poll alert. Go forth and wet your pants. 

 

Only 21 per cent believe that the government is doing well in the negotiations, with 66 per cent thinking ministers are doing badly. The net score of minus 45 per cent is the lowest in a YouGov poll, down from minus 39 points two weeks ago.

 

However, Mrs May has mildly extended her lead as best prime minister over Jeremy Corbyn to 15 points. Some 39 per cent said she was the more suitable for the job, up 2 points, compared to 24 per cent for the Labour leader.

 

The public still put the Tories ahead of Labour as the party of choice to deliver Brexit. Some 26 per cent chose the Tories, 16 per cent would choose Labour and 10 per cent would pick Ukip.

 

Pants saturated. :mellow:

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted

Leading Tory rebel Dominic Grieve rejects May's Brexit compromise

 

The government's compromise to avoid a Commons defeat on Brexit has been rejected as "unacceptable" by leading rebel Dominic Grieve.

Theresa May had convinced most rebels - who want MPs to have the final say - to back her in a key vote on Tuesday night by giving them assurances.

But the wording of the promised compromise has now been published.

And Mr Grieve, who had talks earlier on Thursday with ministers, said he did not accept the government's proposal.

He told BBC News: "At the end of the process something was inexplicably changed, which had not been agreed.

"The government has made the motion unamendable, contrary to the usual methods of the House of Commons. And therefore it cannot be accepted."

BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said Remain-leaning Tory MPs were furious and it set the scene for another big showdown when the bill returns to Parliament next week.

Skip Twitter post by @bbclaurak

Brexiteers adamant they weren't consulted on deal, and Remainers haven't been duped, all they had was verbal agreement rather than firm commitment - messy, but one senior MP says, 'this is just govt without majority'

— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) June 14, 2018

End of Twitter post by @bbclaurak

But a spokesman for the Department for Exiting the European Union said the new amendment "ensures that in all circumstances Parliament can hold government to account, while also allowing government to deliver on the will of the British people as expressed in the referendum".

He added: "But this remains hypothetical and the government is confident we will agree a good deal with the EU which Parliament will support."

What the government's amendment says

The government's amendment to the EU (Withdrawal) Bill sets out what must happen if the prime minister announces before 21 January 2019 that no deal has been reached with the EU either on the withdrawal agreement or the future relationship.

Under these circumstances, a minister must make a statement in Parliament within 14 days and give MPs an opportunity to vote.

However, the vote would be on "a motion in neutral terms", merely stating that the House has considered the statement.

Mr Grieve had originally wanted the amendment to say that the government must seek the approval of Parliament for its course of action - and that ministers must be directed by MPs and peers.

What has been the reaction?

Just two Conservative MPs - Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke - voted against the government after failing to be persuaded by Mrs May's compromise promise.

Ms Soubry said colleagues who had agreed to the compromise would now feel "badly let down", and she accused Mrs May of "siding with the hard Brexiteers" in her party.

Skip Twitter post by @sarahwollaston

Ah ha, so just to be clear we are now going to have to amend the ‘unamendable’ after the agreed amendable amendment acquired a sneaky sting in the tail. What a time to be alive...

— Sarah Wollaston MP (@sarahwollaston) June 14, 2018

End of Twitter post by @sarahwollaston

Conservative Brexiteers argued that the government must have the final say on any Brexit deal.

Labour's shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer said: "The government's amendment is simply not good enough.

"Theresa May has gone back on her word and offered an amendment that takes the meaning out of the meaningful vote. Parliament cannot - and should not - accept it."

The bill will now returns to the House of Lords early next week, with both the government amendment and Mr Grieve's original amendment expected to be debated. It will then return to the Commons, where a fresh showdown is expected unless a deal is hammered out.

Mr Grieve said the plan now "has got to be to try to put it right".

The background to the current row

The UK is due to leave the EU in March 2019, and negotiations have been taking place on the terms of the separation and how the two sides will work together in the future.

The government is trying to pass a new law, called the EU Withdrawal Bill, which it says is needed to ensure a "smooth and orderly Brexit".

Its main purposes are to end the supremacy of EU law in the UK, and transfer existing EU law into UK law so the same rules and regulations apply on the day after Brexit.

But as it passes through Parliament, MPs and peers have been trying to change it, in some cases adding bits on that would change the government's Brexit strategy.

These include moves to give Parliament more of a say in the event that it votes to reject the deal stuck between the UK and the EU, or if no deal is reached at all.

Ministers say they cannot allow MPs to decide what happens next in these circumstances as it would bind their hands in negotiations.

But supporters of the move say it would enable Parliament to avoid an economically damaging outcome for the UK.

After the House of Lords changed the bill to give Parliament a more decisive say, MPs voted on Tuesday to reverse the move - but several pro-EU Tories say they held back from voting against the government because of promises they were made that their concerns would be listened to.

In the House of Commons on Thursday morning, Labour's Brexit spokesman Sir Keir Starmer pressed Brexit Secretary David Davis on seemingly conflicting accounts of what the would-be rebels were offered.

Mr Davis would not be drawn on the details, saying the proposal would meet three criteria: that it does not overturn the referendum result, does not undermine negotiations and does not change the country's constitutional structure which involves the government negotiating.

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