Strokes Posted 18 September 2018 Share Posted 18 September 2018 It wasn’t that long ago JRM was being accused of being a hypocrite for not throwing all of his money on the line for brexit, now he is a pariah for it being of benefit to him. I can’t keep up with the direction of the bitterness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 18 September 2018 Share Posted 18 September 2018 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-45560404 Any chance you can elaborate, @Merging Cultures ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Posted 18 September 2018 Share Posted 18 September 2018 If we had a snap election next week, I don’t know who I’d vote for. I can’t warm to any of them. I just see us on a a downward spiral if we continue with the current propaganda and strange situation we’re in. We’ll end up putting ourselves back into recession, even if it’s simply by talking ourselves into one, with a no deal Brexit. It all all feels very similar to the millennium bug syndrome for all of those who are old enough to remember. Everyone is just waiting for it to happen, then we’ll assess where the land lies after that. Either way, we’ll come out the other side, as that’s inevitable in the peeks and troughs of the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebfromgrebland Posted 18 September 2018 Share Posted 18 September 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal-nhs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 18 September 2018 Share Posted 18 September 2018 Yay! Toddy is back! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 19 September 2018 Share Posted 19 September 2018 9 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal-nhs Ugh, freedom of movement? I'd rather the entire population of Romania rock up than any Texans tbfh. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 19 September 2018 Share Posted 19 September 2018 1 hour ago, Finnegan said: Ugh, freedom of movement? I'd rather the entire population of Romania rock up than any Texans tbfh. Racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 19 September 2018 Share Posted 19 September 2018 5 minutes ago, Strokes said: Racist. Ameriphobic* 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 19 September 2018 Share Posted 19 September 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal-nhs So no answers to the questions any of us asked yesterday? On this subject, it's a pretty fringe group who are pushing those proposals and they aren't really viable at all, Dan Hannan might be an intellectual but he doesn't have too much clout within his own party as they blocked him from standing in Aldershot at the last election and that was when they were pushing a manifesto that was supposed to be supporting a hard Brexit - chance of US accepting FOM with anyone is zero as well, certainly with the current climate in the States. The Tories know full well something like this could never be implemented either by them whilst in office, any British political party that opened up the National Health Service to American privitisation would be kicked out of government and would probably never return, that's why a lot of them were secretly hoping it could be done by the European Union instead via TTIP. Edited 19 September 2018 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 19 September 2018 Share Posted 19 September 2018 It's good to see that T. M. is sticking to her guns now, and wont shift position. She is now putting the big squeeze on Barnier, and he is and still will concede ground. The realism, especially for Germany, of a no deal, has them well and truly on the back foot. I, personally, would prefer a no deal, over the Chequers proposal, because it is too soft. I take my hat of to Mrs. May, who now will not be dictated to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 19 September 2018 Share Posted 19 September 2018 11 minutes ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said: It's good to see that T. M. is sticking to her guns now, and wont shift position. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-emmanuel-macron-eu-theresa-may-salzburg-deal-talks-immigration-trade-irish-border-edited-a8546476.html Strong message coming from the EU27, are we heading for a no deal or will the appeaser strike again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 9 minutes ago, Strokes said: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-emmanuel-macron-eu-theresa-may-salzburg-deal-talks-immigration-trade-irish-border-edited-a8546476.html Strong message coming from the EU27, are we heading for a no deal or will the appeaser strike again? They never wanted us in it in the first place I should imagine they'll be more than glad to see us gone but a chance to screw us before we leave is a chance they'll not want to miss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxinexile Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, davieG said: They never wanted us in it in the first place I should imagine they'll be more than glad to see us gone but a chance to screw us before we leave is a chance they'll not want to miss. Why is the EU always portrayed as the big bad wolf by Leave supporters? We have democratically voted to leave; we are not being forced or asked to leave, it is our decision and ours only. Why is it unreasonable for the EU to maintain the integrity of its internal market? This whole "blame the EU for everything" is just a little too convenient an excuse to use if it all goes horribly wrong. Edited 20 September 2018 by foxinexile 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 Me listening to the radio when every European head of government and state tells Theresa May her plan is dogshit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Me listening to the radio when every European head of government and state tells Theresa May her plan is dogshit There's a reason May has hardly been touring the TV studios or sending ministers out to defend the Chequers plan. She knows the plan will be negotiated with the EU and is not the final deal. Those seemingly red lines will move. Once a deal is hopefully agreed, she will be out defending the agreement along with most of her Cabinet but it will not be the Chequers plan. Edited 20 September 2018 by breadandcheese 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 22 minutes ago, foxinexile said: Why is the EU always portrayed as the big bad wolf by Leave supporters? We have democratically voted to leave; we are not being forced or asked to leave, it is our decision and ours only. Why is it unreasonable for the EU to maintain the integrity of its internal market? This whole "blame the EU for everything" is just a little too convenient an excuse to use if it all goes horribly wrong. I think the issue here is the EU commission. If this was to be a deal negotiated between the UK and the heads of the member states, I suspect it would be a whole lot easier. Instead, this is now a battle because the last thing the EU commission will want is a thriving UK outside the EU. If such a scenario occurs, then there is an existential danger to the EU, with other Eurosceptic parties increasing their share of the vote within the member countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 41 minutes ago, foxinexile said: Why is the EU always portrayed as the big bad wolf by Leave supporters? We have democratically voted to leave; we are not being forced or asked to leave, it is our decision and ours only. Why is it unreasonable for the EU to maintain the integrity of its internal market? This whole "blame the EU for everything" is just a little too convenient an excuse to use if it all goes horribly wrong. Well there's no denying that France were always against us joining and their attitude to GB throughout our membership has always been icy. Maybe the question you should be asking is why is France so anti-British when it relates to the EU and before that the Common Market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 52 minutes ago, foxinexile said: Why is the EU always portrayed as the big bad wolf by Leave supporters? We have democratically voted to leave; we are not being forced or asked to leave, it is our decision and ours only. Why is it unreasonable for the EU to maintain the integrity of its internal market? This whole "blame the EU for everything" is just a little too convenient an excuse to use if it all goes horribly wrong. We want a successful Britain and a successful Europe - the commission don't because of their federal ideology. Send in Boris with a load of Nazi jibes, if we are going to get a no deal let's have a laugh doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxinexile Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, breadandcheese said: I think the issue here is the EU commission. If this was to be a deal negotiated between the UK and the heads of the member states, I suspect it would be a whole lot easier. Instead, this is now a battle because the last thing the EU commission will want is a thriving UK outside the EU. If such a scenario occurs, then there is an existential danger to the EU, with other Eurosceptic parties increasing their share of the vote within the member countries. I understand the approach of this, and can appreciate why there's hostility towards the EC, as the perception is that the 27 other Member States aren't represented in negotiations. However, whether we like it or not, the EC has a remit to represent the interest of the EU collectively, rather than individual Member States and our negotiations go directly through it. Every Member State has a member of the EC and, as much as some people decry it, this is the body we have to negotiate with. Even over the past 24 hours, we've seen how diverse the opinions are of Brexit (I'm sure independently, none of the 27 really want us to leave, but Malta and the Czech Republic expressly saying they hope for a second referendum is something new), so personally I think trying to negotiate with 27 individual parties who will each have their own interests would be more of a challenge. I hear the cries of how undemocratic the EC is (as an extension of the EU) but this is what we have to negotiate with, and no amount of whining (and that's how it appears) will change that. I'm no fan of May, but I have to have some respect for her, given the fact that Davies and Johnson saw fit to leave and then throw their criticisms in from afar. Pretty shameful really. But I agree, it's not in the interests of the EU for the UK to be seen to be getting a deal as good as (or better) than the one we currently enjoy, lest it tempt other Members away too. And personally, I absolutely cannot blame it for that. We are choosing our own red lines; the EU has its. I fail to see why that causes so much annoyance, and anger, for some Leave supporters. Edited 20 September 2018 by foxinexile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxinexile Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 10 minutes ago, davieG said: Well there's no denying that France were always against us joining and their attitude to GB throughout our membership has always been icy. Maybe the question you should be asking is why is France so anti-British when it relates to the EU and before that the Common Market. Really? Is that the main argument? That France is "anti-British"? I'm afraid I don't share the same level of paranoia, but perhaps that's just because I'm a good old Europhile. Each to their own though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxinexile Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 6 minutes ago, MattP said: We want a successful Britain and a successful Europe - the commission don't because of their federal ideology. Send in Boris with a load of Nazi jibes, if we are going to get a no deal let's have a laugh doing it. I can't argue with that. If it is going to go tits up (and it is still an "if") we might as well get some entertainment from it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, foxinexile said: I understand the approach of this, and can appreciate why there's hostility towards the EC, as the perception is that the 27 other Member States aren't represented in negotiations. However, whether we like it or not, the EC has a remit to represent the interest of the EU collectively, rather than individual Member States and our negotiations go directlt through it. Every Member State has a member of the EC and, as much as some people decry it, this is the body we have to negotiate with. Even over the past 24 hours, we've seen how diverse the opinions are of Brexit (I'm sure independently, none of the 27 really want us to leave, but Malta and the Czech Republic expressly saying they hope for a second referendum is something new), so personally I think trying to negotiate with 27 individual parties who will each have their own interests would be more of a challenge. I hear the cries of how undemocratic the EC is (as an extension of the EU) but this is what we have to negotiate with, and no amount of whining (and that's how it appears) will change that. I'm no fan of May, but I have to have some respect for her, given the fact that Davies and Johnson saw fit to leave and then thrown their criticisms in from afar. Pretty shameful really. But I agree, it's not in the interests of the EU for the UK to be seen to be getting a deal as good as (or better) than the one we currently enjoy, lest it tempt other Members away too. And personally, I absolutely cannot blame it for that. We are choosing our own red lines; the EU has its. I fail to see why that causes so much annoyance, and anger, for some Leave supporters. I agree. It's one of the reasons I voted Remain as I feared this would become a divorce deal where no-one wins. I now wonder whether the European Commission is actually as keen as hard Brexiteers to see a no deal, so that the UK suffers punishment. Edited 20 September 2018 by breadandcheese 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 7 minutes ago, foxinexile said: I can't argue with that. If it is going to go tits up (and it is still an "if") we might as well get some entertainment from it! Haha I wasn't being serious but the commission know they can't let us be successful as it then means no one will be scared of leaving, this also shows why the European Union has no long term future - you can't hold something together by fear. I was up for a compromise but there is only so much you can do - time very soon to say thanks but we are off on WTO terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 20 September 2018 Share Posted 20 September 2018 36 minutes ago, foxinexile said: Really? Is that the main argument? That France is "anti-British"? I'm afraid I don't share the same level of paranoia, but perhaps that's just because I'm a good old Europhile. Each to their own though! Who said it was the main argument I posted that in response to the Macron report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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