Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[foxinexile]

31 minutes ago, MattP said:

Haha  I wasn't being serious but the commission know they can't let us be successful as it then means no one will be scared of leaving, this also shows why the European Union has no long term future - you can't hold something together by fear.

 

I was up for a compromise but there is only so much you can do - time very soon to say thanks but we are off on WTO terms.

I was probably being too serious! Again, I do understand the point of the EC wanting to ensure that no one else is tempted to consider leaving, though I don't agree that the EU doesn't have a long term future. As I said though, each to their own, the beauty of politics is (quite rightly) that we all have very individual opinions! 

[breadandcheese]

34 minutes ago, MattP said:

Haha  I wasn't being serious but the commission know they can't let us be successful as it then means no one will be scared of leaving, this also shows why the European Union has no long term future - you can't hold something together by fear.

 

I was up for a compromise but there is only so much you can do - time very soon to say thanks but we are off on WTO terms.

I dislike the commission as much as a Brexiteer but leaving the EU in a disorderly fashion onto WTO terms will really **** us over. I don't have an answer and we are playing an incredibly weak hand but if we can't get a deal, we're in for an incredibly difficult economic adjustment.

[foxinexile]

11 minutes ago, davieG said:

Who said it was the main argument I posted that in response to the Macron report.

What did he say that was anti-British? I'm not being antagonistic, I'm just curious to know. 

[davieG]

2 minutes ago, foxinexile said:

What did he say that was anti-British? I'm not being antagonistic, I'm just curious to know. 

My point was that the French were always against us joining and I doubt they'll shed any tears when we leave it's just how it is as they see us as not a good fit with them politically or commercially,

 

There's plenty of stuff on the Internet from Degaulle saying non! so many times onwards.

[foxinexile]

15 minutes ago, davieG said:

My point was that the French were always against us joining and I doubt they'll shed any tears when we leave it's just how it is as they see us as not a good fit with them politically or commercially,

 

There's plenty of stuff on the Internet from Degaulle saying non! so many times onwards.

That's fair enough, I don't agree, but as I said to Matt, each to their own! Probably one thing we can all (hopefully) agree on is that whatever happens over the coming months/years we have to believe (whichever way we voted and to varying degrees I imagine) that we can and will make a success of Brexit. If it was down to me, I'd reverse it in a heartbeat, but it isn't. And at some point, regardless of what happens, we will all have to come together, no matter how much we might dislike it. 

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

2 hours ago, breadandcheese said:

There's a reason May has hardly been touring the TV studios or sending ministers out to defend the  Chequers plan.  She knows the plan will be negotiated with the EU and is not the final deal.  Those seemingly red lines will move.  Once a deal is hopefully agreed, she will be out defending the agreement along with most of her Cabinet but it will not be the Chequers plan.

 

 

I think, and I hope, you are right. Something harder please, Mrs. May.

[breadandcheese]

4 minutes ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

I think, and I hope, you are right. Something harder please, Mrs. May.

I meant our red lines.  We will offer something softer.

 

Virtually every lever of govt is extremely fearful of brexit

[Sharpe's Fox]

Theresa May could easily get the Brexit deal she wants but she has an obsession with the occupation of six counties of another nation. 

[breadandcheese]

8 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Theresa May could easily get the Brexit deal she wants but she has an obsession with the occupation of six counties of another nation. 

Yawn

[Guest MattP]

32 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Theresa May could easily get the Brexit deal she wants but she has an obsession with the occupation of six counties of another nation. 

We should offer the Irish a deal, they can have the six counties back but they have to take Liverpool as well.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

My point was that the French were always against us joining and I doubt they'll shed any tears when we leave it's just how it is as they see us as not a good fit with them politically or commercially,

 

There's plenty of stuff on the Internet from Degaulle saying non! so many times onwards.

Silly ambitious French Politicians,and power addicts....Not real Frenchman.  THe y like the English, just couldn't honestly  give a f**k

[Izzy]

Fvck em, lets have no deal, get the hell out and just get on with it.

 

 

[Sharpe's Fox]

56 minutes ago, MattP said:

We should offer the Irish a deal, they can have the six counties back but they have to take Liverpool as well.

you may laugh but to me it’s frustrating that our independence is being denied because of a few micks in denial.

[ajthefox]

1 hour ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

 harder please, Mrs. May.

Is that you, Boris?

[fuchsntf]

Just now, Izzy Muzzett said:

Fvck em, lets have no deal, get the hell out and just get on with it.

 

 

Your going down again, your going dowwwnnn aggaiin. ...la.laa la..laaa ..la.. la 

liking Britain to stay...is not Begging,needing Britain to stay....

you were sold false promises....by British not European politicians....

Sovereignty--sell out....sold by British politicians

Your just left with the cowboys..al a. All major projects, al a del-boys Spurs stadium fiasco...

No car industry..no engineering industry.no fishing rights,greedy farmers(Europeans too) gambled and lost,only foreign building projects.

No British shopping or merchant major businesses,the Asians pss all over you.Even the best fish n chips shops are in foreign hands.

Banks led by foreigners....

 

Maybe one redeeming feature, damn good entrepreneurs...Foreign and British.

 

Even the trash from New Parks decided to get up and leave...sink estate exports....

but it's mine forever mine,to dream of,and memories still green

those on England's pleasant pastures seen?   

[Guest MattP]

13 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

you may laugh but to me it’s frustrating that our independence is being denied because of a few micks in denial.

Relax.

 

Theresa now just has to go back to the original plan of actually leaving the EU - then we'll see if Soubry and Co have the guts try and stop it happening.

 

Thornberry said Labour were voting against Chequers anyway so with that and ERG group there was no chance if a parliamentary majority for it.

[purpleronnie]

On ‎10‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 22:52, purpleronnie said:

Can anyone see anything else than us crashing out with a No deal?

 

Surely the EU won't agree to the current deal the Tories have, May won't want make any more concessions and face losing any support she still has, but then if she does crash us out she'll be humiliated which surely means resignation.

 

I guess then we'll find out if a No deal really is a disaster or not.

 

 

well I said this 2 months ago, no-one agreed, but its certainly pretty close now.

[davieG]

UKIP should become a "radical, populist party" standing up for free speech against the "politically-correct thought police", says its leader.

Its "interim manifesto", unveiled on the eve of its conference, also urges a "clean exit" from the EU.

 

In it, Mr Batten says UKIP will "promote and defend our national and individual freedoms" adding: "We are determined to protect our freedom of speech and the right to speak our minds without fear of the politically correct thought-police knocking on our doors."

The manifesto covers a wide range of policy areas, from the NHS and transport to fisheries and small businesses, with policies including:

 

A limited points-based immigration system
NHS health cards for British citizens to prevent 'health tourism' & free parking at hospitals
An extra £2bn a year for adult social care & £500m a year for mental health
Abolition of stamp duty and inheritance tax
Introduction of new grammar schools
Scrapping the overseas aid budget
Scrapping guidelines on 'subjective' hate crimes
Scrapping the climate change act, stopping subsidies for wind turbines and solar voltaic arrays and seeking to rejuvenate the UK's coal industry
Scrapping the BBC licence fee in favour of voluntary subscription
Repealing hate speech guidelines, the Equality Act 2010 & shutting down the Equalities and Human Rights Commission

 

[Innovindil]

11 minutes ago, davieG said:

UKIP should become a "radical, populist party" standing up for free speech against the "politically-correct thought police", says its leader.

Its "interim manifesto", unveiled on the eve of its conference, also urges a "clean exit" from the EU.

 

In it, Mr Batten says UKIP will "promote and defend our national and individual freedoms" adding: "We are determined to protect our freedom of speech and the right to speak our minds without fear of the politically correct thought-police knocking on our doors."

The manifesto covers a wide range of policy areas, from the NHS and transport to fisheries and small businesses, with policies including:

 

A limited points-based immigration system
NHS health cards for British citizens to prevent 'health tourism' & free parking at hospitals
An extra £2bn a year for adult social care & £500m a year for mental health
Abolition of stamp duty and inheritance tax
Introduction of new grammar schools
Scrapping the overseas aid budget
Scrapping guidelines on 'subjective' hate crimes
Scrapping the climate change act, stopping subsidies for wind turbines and solar voltaic arrays and seeking to rejuvenate the UK's coal industry
Scrapping the BBC licence fee in favour of voluntary subscription
Repealing hate speech guidelines, the Equality Act 2010 & shutting down the Equalities and Human Rights Commission

 

Meh. Some good ideas. Personally in favour of a point based immigration system. And while I wouldn't want to completely scrap foreign aid, I would see it reduced and reprioritised.

 

Rest is pretty baffling. No idea how anyone can be in favour of using coal for power these days. Repealing hate speech guidelines is just a polite way of saying we're cvnts and we know we are tbh. 

 

[Finnaldo]

2 hours ago, Innovindil said:

Meh. Some good ideas. Personally in favour of a point based immigration system. And while I wouldn't want to completely scrap foreign aid, I would see it reduced and reprioritised.

 

Rest is pretty baffling. No idea how anyone can be in favour of using coal for power these days. Repealing hate speech guidelines is just a polite way of saying we're cvnts and we know we are tbh. 

 

 

The sad thing with politics being so polarised is that believing immigration should be managed and reforming foreign aid policy will put you in league with those who want destroy hate speech parameters and equality acts.

[breadandcheese]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

 

The sad thing with politics being so polarised is that believing immigration should be managed and reforming foreign aid policy will put you in league with those who want destroy hate speech parameters and equality acts.

I think of it as a responsibility for all of us not to be seduced by a party like UKIP, just because you might agree with one or two ideas.  Reforming foreign aid or points based immigration shouldn't be an excuse to ignore the fact that the party is now not far off the BNP or UK first.  

 

The fact is that most of their policy ideas are wishlist ideals that won't face much scrutiny, so they don't need to worry too much about them.  

 

[Guest MattP]

I don't think it's any surprise UKIP is turning towards this, the Tories have stolen the Brexit clothes so being a hard right populist party is the only real direction for them. It might work, it might not - a reversal of Brexit coupled with Tory/Labour interference into reversing the result and they could do very well.

 

If the press want to make Gerard Batten look stupid they'll need to be on the ball though, he has a pretty extensive knowledge of the Koran and Hadith - they aren't dealing with a Nick Griffin or Tommy Robinson here.

[purpleronnie]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

UKIP should become a "radical, populist party" standing up for free speech against the "politically-correct thought police", says its leader.

Its "interim manifesto", unveiled on the eve of its conference, also urges a "clean exit" from the EU.

 

In it, Mr Batten says UKIP will "promote and defend our national and individual freedoms" adding: "We are determined to protect our freedom of speech and the right to speak our minds without fear of the politically correct thought-police knocking on our doors."

The manifesto covers a wide range of policy areas, from the NHS and transport to fisheries and small businesses, with policies including:

 

A limited points-based immigration system
NHS health cards for British citizens to prevent 'health tourism' & free parking at hospitals
An extra £2bn a year for adult social care & £500m a year for mental health
Abolition of stamp duty and inheritance tax
Introduction of new grammar schools
Scrapping the overseas aid budget
Scrapping guidelines on 'subjective' hate crimes
Scrapping the climate change act, stopping subsidies for wind turbines and solar voltaic arrays and seeking to rejuvenate the UK's coal industry
Scrapping the BBC licence fee in favour of voluntary subscription
Repealing hate speech guidelines, the Equality Act 2010 & shutting down the Equalities and Human Rights Commission

 

white power!

 

[Finnaldo]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

I don't think it's any surprise UKIP is turning towards this, the Tories have stolen the Brexit clothes so being a hard right populist party is the only real direction for them. It might work, it might not - a reversal of Brexit coupled with Tory/Labour interference into reversing the result and they could do very well.

 

If the press want to make Gerard Batten look stupid they'll need to be on the ball though, he has a pretty extensive knowledge of the Koran and Hadith - they aren't dealing with a Nick Griffin or Tommy Robinson here.

 

I can't see it working at all to be honest.

 

They were walking a tightrope to begin with, as you said with the Tories stealing their thunder they almost collapsed. UKIP success came on a very broad coalition of Brexit voters, when you start taling about repealing hate crime legislation and equality acts seriously narrows their voting range for an already very niche party previously seen as single-issue.

 

I think they're finally being shown up for what they are without Farage's Grand Showmanship and after several civil wars and leadership struggles its gone back to the bare bones of the early 2000s UKIP.

 

I was always pretty cautious of being complacent about the Leave vote pre-ref, but after the shambles the Brexit process has been so far, I honestly don't there's that much appetite for a second UKIP surge, especially under a populist, borderline racialist regime.

Edited 21 September 2018 by Finnaldo

[Voll Blau]