Jon the Hat Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 Meanwhile, back on Brexit. How ****ing shameful is it that the Governments plan to get their shitshow of a deal through parliament it blatantly to see the reaction of the markets to the first vote, and push it through in blind panic after their hope for and profec fear 2 promoted drop in the pound and FTSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 4 hours ago, leicsmac said: He's shared a platform with a man whos party counts among its members Holocaust deniers, anti-Semites and those who while not wanting to hang gays would gladly legislate them out of existence as they believe them to be an abomination...is that close? Well not really no, I doubt a single major political party in the World in the World (maybe Lukid) doesn't have at least one of those sorts in. It's not in the same ballpark as directly taking cash from or standing next to them at the bequest of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: Meanwhile, back on Brexit. How ****ing shameful is it that the Governments plan to get their shitshow of a deal through parliament it blatantly to see the reaction of the markets to the first vote, and push it through in blind panic after their hope for and profec fear 2 promoted drop in the pound and FTSE. Not surprising though is it unfortunately. The only way they can get this through is via panic and fear. No deal has the greatest achievement of project fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 What happened there, then? About an hour's worth of posts disappeared, just as I'd completed my typically brief reply...... Some boys being naughty, fighting in the sandpit and calling names so that mass discipline had to be imposed by the teacher/moderator? Fortunately, I'd copied my post - and haven't been rude to other posters, honest, Mr. Mod..... That's a reasonable question (from @Foxin_mad as to why so many Brits depend on benefits/tax credits), though a lot of people reliant on Universal Credit and other benefits are in work, even full-time work. A complicated issue, but I'm sure the roots of the problem lie in changes in the international division of labour due to globalisation, plus the policies pursued by successive govts. Until the 70s or 80s, the UK had millions of fairly secure, full-time jobs in traditional industries (mining, steel, shipbuilding, cars etc.) that provided an adequate household income by the standards of the time. Many of these industries became less viable in the UK due to big businesses consolidating and globalising, taking advantage of ongoing development, upskilling - and lower labour costs - in Asia and other parts of the globe. This has been a problem for many countries across the West, though the UK seems to have handled the inevitable transition worse than most. In the 80s, Thatcher adopted a particularly brutal policy, pulling the plug on industries, firms and communities that needed to change, leaving it all to market forces. As ever, some people and some towns were successful in finding new roles, but some were not. New Labour then came in and tried to remedy the problem by providing a safety net. But they still essentially subscribed to the same free-market ideology so did little to help struggling areas to attract and build alternative employment. Given their fear of being seen as "anti-business", they also didn't want to confront business demanding that they provide secure jobs offering a viable income - indeed Blair used to witter on about the merits of "flexible labour markets". Instead, they tried to guarantee viable incomes without such confrontation via a massive expansion of tax credits. They also relied on upskilling the workforce by expanding Higher Education....with too many studying academic subjects, too few vocational skills. Then, post-2008 crash, in came the Tories again in 2010, with a mission to cut the deficit. Benefits and tax credits are a significant item in the budget, and one less popular with voters than the NHS or pensions, so they've had significant cuts. At the same time, there have been few good jobs offering a viable income. Unemployment is low, but an awful lot of people are in insecure jobs, working part-time, on low self-employed incomes etc. Some new industries have grown up (e.g. computer games in Dundee & wind turbine manufacture in Hampshire....from which the govt withdrew support!), but nowhere near enough to replace the jobs lost in old industries since the 80s - instead there has been a proliferation of insecure or low-paid jobs in call centres, distribution centres, personal services etc. In addition, due to the crash and austerity politics, incomes have been stagnant for a decade - and now along has come Brexit uncertainty to add to that. Failures in other policy areas have exacerbated dependency on benefits and the number of people struggling: lack of affordable housing, higher food prices etc. We urgently need a govt that will use the apparatus and funds of the state SMARTLY (not just flinging loads of cash at old industries) and that will work with business to help to develop industries and employment that cannot (currently) be undercut by lower-cost developing countries. Whatever you think of Labour's "crazy" plans, at least they are looking in the right direction with their policies for investment banks, regional development etc. Whether they'll manage such projects well if they ever win power, I don't know - and nor do you, frankly, despite your assumptions that they'll just splurge cash irresponsibly "as socialists always do". You might be right. You might be wrong. But if we just carry on with this current shower of shite, investing sod-all in industry, training or housing, cutting spending to the bone, blaming the poor for their own problems and damaging relations with our largest market, while achieving sod all in building "Global Britain", then we're just grinding along the sea bed and heading for the Mariana Trench. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 32 minutes ago, MattP said: Well not really no, I doubt a single major political party in the World in the World (maybe Lukid) doesn't have at least one of those sorts in. It's not in the same ballpark as directly taking cash from or standing next to them at the bequest of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 3 minutes ago, Buce said: Likud. It's been a long long day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 What happened there, then? I make imo a reasonable rebuttal to some questionable generalisations and get on with work, come back to a notification of a response but that post, my one and the one I'd replied to are all gone? Genuinely scratching my head here because there was nothing abusive to what I or he wrote (at the time of my post in any case)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 Just now, MattP said: Likud. It's been a long long day. I remember being in Israel during the election of 1984 (85?). They have (had?) quite an interesting democracy; one of the parties was an anti-Zionist Arab party, which was allowed to stand because one of the more extreme Religious Jewish parties were also anti-Zionists, based on the belief that it wasn't yet time for Israel's formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: What happened there, then? I make imo a reasonable rebuttal to some questionable generalisations and get on with work, come back to a notification of a response but that post, my one and the one I'd replied to are all gone? Genuinely scratching my head here because there was nothing abusive to what I or he wrote (at the time of my post in any case)... Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 16 minutes ago, Buce said: I remember being in Israel during the election of 1984 (85?). They have (had?) quite an interesting democracy; one of the parties was an anti-Zionist Arab party, which was allowed to stand because one of the more extreme Religious Jewish parties were also anti-Zionists, based on the belief that it wasn't yet time for Israel's formation. A country I still haven't visited yet, probably for the best though as it can cause problems trying to get into other countries in the middle east - I'll get there one day though. The Knesset (think I've got that wrong as well ) is probably the best argument against proportional representation in the World. Likud have to alter policy and pretty much have to go to the extremes to attract support off the hard Zionist right and at times even enter into coalition with them, we all then see how that plays out in day-to-day life and the consequences of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: A country I still haven't visited yet, probably for the best though as it can cause problems trying to get into other countries in the middle east - I'll get there one day though. The Knesset (think I've got that wrong as well ) is probably the best argument against proportional representation in the World. Likud have to alter policy and pretty much have to go to the extremes to attract support off the hard Zionist right and at times even enter into coalition with them, we all then see how that plays out in day-to-day life and the consequences of it. 2 I don't know if it's still the case, but when I was there they took a sympathetic approach to that problem by allowing you to have your visa stamp on a piece of paper rather than in your passport. I travelled to several Arab countries afterwards without any issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 14 minutes ago, Buce said: I don't know if it's still the case, but when I was there they took a sympathetic approach to that problem by allowing you to have your visa stamp on a piece of paper rather than in your passport. I travelled to several Arab countries afterwards without any issue. Good idea that. My mate had a bit of a nightmare trying to get into China with an Israeli stamp - frustrating for me as well as I had to wait for about two hours they questioned him, all sorts of nonsense regarding cities he has been to and asking why, he said they genuinely couldn't understand a tourist trip there which is very bizarre. Must gets loads who have, this was a few years back as well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 1 hour ago, MattP said: Good idea that. My mate had a bit of a nightmare trying to get into China with an Israeli stamp - frustrating for me as well as I had to wait for about two hours they questioned him, all sorts of nonsense regarding cities he has been to and asking why, he said they genuinely couldn't understand a tourist trip there which is very bizarre. Must gets loads who have, this was a few years back as well though. China has its own issues with its Muslim population, maybe it was something to do with that? It really is a place you should make the effort to visit, Matt - the Israelis are amongst the coolest people I've met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 7 minutes ago, Buce said: China has its own issues with its Muslim population, maybe it was something to do with that? It really is a place you should make the effort to visit, Matt - the Israelis are amongst the coolest people I've met. And best looking. Every Israeli woman I've met has been beautiful. And I lived with a hunky Israeli bloke for two months in Florence, going out for beers with him my success rate with the local women suffered considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 2 minutes ago, bovril said: And best looking. Every Israeli woman I've met has been beautiful. And I lived with a hunky Israeli bloke for two months in Florence, going out for beers with him my success rate with the local women suffered considerably. Yeah, I'd go along with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 9 minutes ago, Buce said: Yeah, I'd go along with that. I'd genuinely love to live for a year or two in Tel Aviv but I have no idea how easy it is for non-Jewish Brits to work there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 19 minutes ago, bovril said: I'd genuinely love to live for a year or two in Tel Aviv but I have no idea how easy it is for non-Jewish Brits to work there. I've no idea, mate, though as a teacher(?) you'd probably be in with more of a chance than most. You're definitely young enough for Kibbutz or Moshav work, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, bovril said: I'd genuinely love to live for a year or two in Tel Aviv but I have no idea how easy it is for non-Jewish Brits to work there. Go for a kibbutz or Moschav.....Roof over your head,meals work for...(98% volunteer work) No wages maybe pocket money,but will allow you to Live the Israel experience....plus great fun!! Whoops just seen @Buce also suggested it!!!! Edited 23 November 2018 by fuchsntf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 ****sake focus you lot. Maybot bad! Corbyn communist! Yaxley twat! Emigrate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 23 November 2018 Share Posted 23 November 2018 (edited) http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-baubles-theresa-may-issues-knighthood-and-privy-council-appointments-ahead-of-crucial-vote-11561532 ****ing outrage. I’m beyond disgusted with this government. Edited 23 November 2018 by Jon the Hat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMX11 Posted 24 November 2018 Share Posted 24 November 2018 11 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-baubles-theresa-may-issues-knighthood-and-privy-council-appointments-ahead-of-crucial-vote-11561532 ****ing outrage. I’m beyond disgusted with this government. I am not sure what is more pathetic, this government or the Conservative MP's still propping it up? If they genuinely wanted to leave the EU, most of the focus would have been no deal planning from the beginning and therefore the need for a deal would be reduced significantly. This needs to be accelerated now, but I imagine this government would rather still try and flog this horrible deal and cave to another referendum down the line (if May somehow survives). If I put my tinfoil hat on it all just seems that they are stringing it out into the future for us to rejoin the EU by keeping us closely aligned etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 24 November 2018 Share Posted 24 November 2018 This sort of patronage has always gone on by all parties. They should scrap positions like Privy Councillors it's a none job and I suspect it involves a bigger salary for doing FA. We need a revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 24 November 2018 Share Posted 24 November 2018 41 minutes ago, davieG said: This sort of patronage has always gone on by all parties. They should scrap positions like Privy Councillors it's a none job and I suspect it involves a bigger salary for doing FA. We need a revolution. I keep saying dictatorship is the way forward, I'm sure you guys have noticed me as the front runner for that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 24 November 2018 Share Posted 24 November 2018 Has this question been asked earlier in the 937 pages? people are exercised that may is accepting stuff she said she wouldn’t at the outset of negotiations surely people understand that you enter a negotiation with an extreme public position on the basis that you will have to compromise somewhat with both sides giving ground. The lower your starting position the lower your finishing point. You can disagree with what she has come back with but to ‘hang’ her for the fact it differs from the position she stated at the outset is at best opportunistic and potentially just plain ignorant. All the politicians with their noses in their respective troughs ..... who knew ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 24 November 2018 Share Posted 24 November 2018 30 minutes ago, st albans fox said: Has this question been asked earlier in the 937 pages? people are exercised that may is accepting stuff she said she wouldn’t at the outset of negotiations surely people understand that you enter a negotiation with an extreme public position on the basis that you will have to compromise somewhat with both sides giving ground. The lower your starting position the lower your finishing point. You can disagree with what she has come back with but to ‘hang’ her for the fact it differs from the position she stated at the outset is at best opportunistic and potentially just plain ignorant. All the politicians with their noses in their respective troughs ..... who knew ???? Me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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