Jon the Hat Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 19 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: yes, we are - considering the government leaflets were LEGAL vs. the alleged additional funding of £8million from Banks which was ILLEGAL and was used to target people whose personal details were attained ILLEGALLY via Cambridge Analytica data mining. not difficult to grasp that one, Jon. Well we don't know if it was illegal or not at this stage, but we can certainly argue that the Government should not have used tax payers money to fund their viewpoint in a referendum in such a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 4 minutes ago, FoxNotFox said: At the risk of me seeming to have a hobby horse, do we know that these actions were actually "illegal"? Unethical and immoral perhaps but illegal? I don't know whether those questions have been answered. The point I'm making, and made above, is that matters of law might end up, sadly, defining and ultimately unintentionally deciding the outcome. Whilst Banks is undoubtedly motivated by personal gain, and we can judge him on that basis alone of we like, are we sure that he has done anything that the law would call wrong. We're in new ground and I'm not even sure there are rules here. I posted a link a few posts ago that explained this. IIRC Banks is supposed to have Russian links and the money was routed via a company outside of the UK. The Electoral Commission has already found the Leave Campaign to be in violation of law and Banks is being investigated on multiple criminal charges by the National Crime Agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 8 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: Unpopular ex-PM of Australia who has similar Churchillian views as the noisy Conservative back-benchers who have no actual solutions to the Brexit scenario. Another unicorn dreamer who manages to blurt out a paragraph explaining how easy it all should have been but wouldn't be able to find any real ideas / substance if called upon. That's why. Tony Abbot is a knob of the highest order - it is unbelievable he succeeded John Howard - but he is right in that had we actually prepared for no deal for the past 2 years (as we should have done given our negotiating position was supposed to be "No deal is better than a bad deal"), we would be in a much bloody better position that we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxNotFox Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 9 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: The Electoral Commission has already found the Leave Campaign to be in violation of law and Banks is being investigated on multiple criminal charges by the National Crime Agency. So no criminal charges as yet. And from your previous link, it says "suspected" criminal activities. I'm being pedantic, I know, and I really have no wish to defend Banks but the law is pedantic too. My point really is broader than his activities though. It's about the outcome of this being decided in law courts and I see that as a very real and unsatisfactory outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 Why is something that could potentially be found to be illegal being decided by a court of law unsatisfactory? Surely in this instance where the future of millions hangs in the balance, influenced by people with VERY vested interests - is best intervened by impartial courts of law if foul play is suspected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 28 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Hi, I'm Bob Bored of Brexit I expect those who were around at the time got bored of the Hundred Years' War, too..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said: To be honest, my feeling here is that any additional funds which probably shouldn't have been spent promoting Brexit are more than offset by the imbalance caused by the establishment heavily backing remain. For Leave to win despite that is one of the most remarkable results in any vote ever imo. The fact that Brexit is not really happening as it stands will probably be looked at in 10 years (when the EU has collapsed in on itself) as a huge missed opportunity. It is really happening, as per the question asked on the ballot paper. We will no longer be a member of the EU. Apparently that's all people wanted, and they knew what they were voting for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 18 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: I expect those who were around at the time got bored of the Hundred Years' War, too..... At least they didn't have social media and 24/7 news ramming it down their throat back then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 6 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: At least they didn't have social media and 24/7 news ramming it down their throat back then Constant heraldic proclamations and humorous references by jesters must have been annoying, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 53 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Hi, I'm Bob Bored of Brexit That unfortunately the Brits major prob...We all get excited for 1month!!! Then in the end we really couldn't give a shit!!! Boris n Theresa plan B....after 2 yrs they knew the electorate.....would cave in!!!!! After a short Muppet show!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 2 minutes ago, fuchsntf said: That unfortunately the Brits major prob...We all get excited for 1month!!! Then in the end we really couldn't give a shit!!! Boris n Theresa plan B....after 2 yrs they knew the electorate.....would cave in!!!!! After a short Muppet show!!! I haven't really given a shit since day 1 tbh. I tried to give a shit initially but got bored of giving a shit and eventually stopped giving a shit. At least some people still give a shit though. I do admire them for hanging in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 Just now, Izzy Muzzett said: I haven't really given a shit since day 1 tbh. I tried to give a shit initially but got bored of giving a shit and eventually stopped giving a shit. At least some people still give a shit though. I do admire them for hanging in there. Yeah but hanging shit stinks....just like Brexshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxNotFox Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 40 minutes ago, lifted*fox said: Why is something that could potentially be found to be illegal being decided by a court of law unsatisfactory? Let me clarify. When I said.... Quote It's about the outcome of this being decided in law courts and I see that as a very real and unsatisfactory outcome. ...by "this" I mean Brexit and not the Banks investigation. I fear that any possible prosecution of Banks might then be used as a means to declare the referendum, and thereby Brexit itself, as legally void. I voted remain but I don't want to remain that way. It's a back door remain and I fear that just as I fear crashing out due to A50 timing out. In short, I fear that the courts might be instrumental in deciding the outcome of Brexit. That, for me, would be unsatisfactory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 25 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: It is really happening, as per the question asked on the ballot paper. We will no longer be a member of the EU. Apparently that's all people wanted, and they knew what they were voting for. If this Brexit deal was the one offered to public in 2016, do you honestly think that the result would have still been to leave? Unlike, say, the Scottish referendum vote, where information was placed before the voters prior to them voting - nothing was presented pre-Brexit. Just a Yes or No vote option, with lots of noise from both sides. If this dog turd of a deal had been presented pre-vote, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. May has gambled big and lost...and we are left with a botched option that pleases hardly anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Voll Blau Posted 26 November 2018 Popular Post Share Posted 26 November 2018 1 minute ago, Milo said: If this Brexit deal was the one offered to public in 2016, do you honestly think that the result would have still been to leave? Unlike, say, the Scottish referendum vote, where information was placed before the voters prior to them voting - nothing was presented pre-Brexit. Just a Yes or No vote option, with lots of noise from both sides. If this dog turd of a deal had been presented pre-vote, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. May has gambled big and lost...and we are left with a botched option that pleases hardly anyone. Well of course the result would have been different. As it would have been if any other (viable) deal was put forward. Instead, prominent Leavers made pie in the sky promises and people chose to believe they would come to be. I can only hope those who made those promises are held accountable for their actions in the years to come. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 20 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: Well of course the result would have been different. As it would have been if any other (viable) deal was put forward. Instead, prominent Leavers made pie in the sky promises and people chose to believe they would come to be. I can only hope those who made those promises are held accountable for their actions in the years to come. But prominent remainers ended up making the deals. Prominemt remainers also made pie in the sky predictions (crashed economy, etc). Like I said, there was a lot of noise from both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 4 minutes ago, Milo said: But prominent remainers ended up making the deals. Prominemt remainers also made pie in the sky predictions (crashed economy, etc). Like I said, there was a lot of noise from both sides. And as I said yesterday, prominent Leavers have had every opportunity to influence negotiations - all three men charged with doing that as Brexit Secretary publicly backed Leave. Two of them have cried off so far. Not seeing much of this famous 'Bulldog Spirit' we're told will get us through this from them pair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said: Constant heraldic proclamations and humorous references by jesters must have been annoying, though. Not forgetting the bloody annoying Town Crier with his Oyezs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 1 hour ago, Izzy Muzzett said: I haven't really given a shit since day 1 tbh. I tried to give a shit initially but got bored of giving a shit and eventually stopped giving a shit. At least some people still give a shit though. I do admire them for hanging in there. Try these, Izzy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted 26 November 2018 Share Posted 26 November 2018 1 hour ago, Voll Blau said: And as I said yesterday, prominent Leavers have had every opportunity to influence negotiations - all three men charged with doing that as Brexit Secretary publicly backed Leave. Two of them have cried off so far. Not seeing much of this famous 'Bulldog Spirit' we're told will get us through this from them pair. But they had to resign due the crappy agenda that May was pushing, no? (Which kind of backs up the point, a bit). Pah. Really weak PM, made crap decisions regarding GE, and found herself in an even weaker position. Tories imploding with their in-fighting and opposition led by a bit of an odd-bod. Would be funny if it wasn't so important. Need a saviour - left or right, I don't really mind...anything but these clowns. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 27 November 2018 Share Posted 27 November 2018 12 hours ago, Milo said: But they had to resign due the crappy agenda that May was pushing, no? (Which kind of backs up the point, a bit). Pah. Really weak PM, made crap decisions regarding GE, and found herself in an even weaker position. Tories imploding with their in-fighting and opposition led by a bit of an odd-bod. Would be funny if it wasn't so important. Need a saviour - left or right, I don't really mind...anything but these clowns. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayofox Posted 27 November 2018 Share Posted 27 November 2018 Theresa May is really grasping at straws if she thinks a short visit to Northern Ireland will help her cause. The country voted 55.8% to remain, and IMO this figure will be higher now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 November 2018 Share Posted 27 November 2018 On 26/11/2018 at 09:56, Innovindil said: Can anyone explain to me why our fishing industry is constantly dismissed as only minorly important but macron has made a pointed statement on how important us giving up access to our fishing waters is for a future trade deal? I honestly don't get it. It's nothing to do with Brexit. Macron needs any goodwill he can find, it's simply a French political statement dressed up as relevant to Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 27 November 2018 Share Posted 27 November 2018 13 minutes ago, FIF said: It's nothing to do with Brexit. Macron needs any goodwill he can find, it's simply a French political statement dressed up as relevant to Brexit. This is probably right. He has to keep Marine and her merry band of neofascists from the door, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts