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Tuna

George Hirst

By Tuna, in Transfer Talk

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Gerard

Gerard

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, ronnup said:

Wednesday fans I know (live in sheff) saying it's not happening. They're loaning him out themselves. 

 

One year left on his contract and apparently he wants to leave so if they keep him he can leave in a year with a tribunal setting the fee.

 

I also think he can go abroad for no fee so a dangerous game for Wednesday.

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Thracian

Thracian

Posted
Posted

Hope we get this done. The lad's quality. Six feet three, skillful, good turn of pace, gets his head up, works hard and has an instinct and ability for finishing. After the forgettable efforts of our under 23s I sign this guy anytime, put him straight into our Premiership squad, and sell Ulloa.   

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Koke

Koke

Posted
Posted

Even if Hirst, Thomas etc don't make it here we will sell them for £5-10m, or maybe more, like we did with Lawrence. 

 

Chelsea don't bring youths through either but they make a killing off them. 

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Thracian

Thracian

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Get him straight into the PL squad then.

 

Our development signings never work. We sign them with potential, they never play a league game and then they leave.

 

Potential is easy to see but much harder to bring to fruition - and more so in the glare of national publicity when every decision is scrutinised and inevitably criticised by some.

 

Coaches need to be so single-minded. They need to completely believe in what they're doing and to not only advise players fruitfully but inspire them to cope with their crises and emerge as winners. 

 

And the only way to do that is to map a path of progress and do everything possible to stick with it. In today's world the coach can even inform the fans of his reasoning and get them to play their part by way of encouragement. 

 

When I say a path of progress i don't mean the guarantee of a team place. I mean the building of team time with the rider that there will likely be time out to work on particular problems as well - both technical and psychological.

 

For instance players need to understand that they may be withdrawn or left out of a team for tactical reasons and be able to cope emotionally. Or they might need a mental or physical rest for a short time.

 

But the coach needs to show commitment too - when things go wrong as well as right. It's hard to explain in full but in the end you need a team whose players have complete faith in the coach yet are free enough to input ideas.

 

With Hirst the ability us there for anyone to see. There will always be some who say a player's not ready - either through lack of faith or for the ulterior motive of keeping more expensive players in place - but quality players so often respond to and benefit from the challenge of the level they're placed into provided the coach doesn't let them stifle themselves with self-doubts.

 

Yes, they need to follow instructions but no, they shouldn't be shackled to the point of smothering their own abilities. 

 

Hirst would soon find himself surrounded by bigger, stronger, faster, more experienced opponents in Premiership football but I am 100% sure he'd quickly live,  learn and cope with the right help.

 

But that's the key - the right help. And the right vision.

 

We no longer have as good a team as we had two seasons ago - and I mean that in the broadest sense as in everyone involved in contributing to our team. There's been too many bad decisions in every part of the process. Bad signings, flawed development, poor individual and collective performances, a lack of inspiring vision, loss of changing room cohesion, questionable collective preparation ... a whole host of things.

 

Bad decisions are made at every club but it's important we reduce them to a minimum if we want to be a force in both England and Europe. Rudkin is the Director of Football- the permanent man pulling the strings. And he's the man needs to be examined when it comes to marrying the owners' aims into a visionary way of achieving them.

 

I don't know whether he's good or bad to be honest but if I were him I'd be highly critical of much of what I'd overseen these last months if I were responsible....in terms of recruitment, team improvement, internal bonhomie, youth development, publicity and a good many other things.

 

We've already blown one chance to make significant progress and, right now, I see few signs that we're sorting the reasons for that setback as quickly as we can.

 

Are we even offering Hirst the right reasons and the right footballing incentive to come here? Because I sure hope so.         

 

                       

 

 

          

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Thracian

Thracian

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Koke said:

Even if Hirst, Thomas etc don't make it here we will sell them for £5-10m, or maybe more, like we did with Lawrence. 

 

Chelsea don't bring youths through either but they make a killing off them. 

There's nothing wrong with making money - and everything right with it if we want to have the means to compete. But let's set our own standards rather than worry about Chelsea's. We've already helped them to one title.  

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Bluearmyfox28

Bluearmyfox28

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Thracian said:

There's nothing wrong with making money - and everything right with it if we want to have the means to compete. But let's set our own standards rather than worry about Chelsea's. We've already helped them to one title.  

There's nothing wrong with copying a successful set up. We dont have the coaching ability to bring them to a standard of Hirst's from a young age. So we pay the money for promising talent n let other clubs develop our boys.

 

It's a clever system which benefits only the parent club. Unfortunately we dont have the coaching system at youth level unlike teams like Southampton & Tottenham to bring our own local boys through the system. 

 

Our coaching at youth level is woeful.

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Babylon

Babylon

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

Get him straight into the PL squad then.

 

Our development signings never work. We sign them with potential, they never play a league game and then they leave.

Because they are all shit. If they are good they will still rise to the top.

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Babylon

Babylon

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

"Yeah but do you see them in training everyday".

No but the manager does and decides they aren't good enough. There have been 100 people hyped over the years that have gone on to do almost nothing above Championship level after leaving here. 

 

I've heard it year after year and the ones who were good enough have played and those not good enough have not proved us wrong almost without exception. Only one or two have done that and even they aren't good enough for us.

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filbertway

filbertway

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Babylon said:

No but the manager does and decides they aren't good enough. There have been 100 people hyped over the years that have gone on to do almost nothing above Championship level after leaving here. 

 

I've heard it year after year and the ones who were good enough have played and those not good enough have not proved us wrong almost without exception. Only one or two have done that and even they aren't good enough for us.

I can't think of many first teamers we've had that we've sold on to better teams either come to think of it.

 

Mattock

Kante

Stearman

McAuley?

Schlupp was to a team at our level

 

There were a fair few towards the end of O'Neill's reign/start of Taylor's.

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VIKTOR-LE5

VIKTOR-LE5

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I can't think of many first teamers we've had that we've sold on to better teams either come to think of it.

 

Mattock

Kante

Stearman

McAuley?

Schlupp was to a team at our level

 

There were a fair few towards the end of O'Neill's reign/start of Taylor's.

Really better clubs, only Kunta Kante joined a bigger club.

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Thracian

Thracian

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Babylon said:

No but the manager does and decides they aren't good enough. There have been 100 people hyped over the years that have gone on to do almost nothing above Championship level after leaving here. 

 

I've heard it year after year and the ones who were good enough have played and those not good enough have not proved us wrong almost without exception. Only one or two have done that and even they aren't good enough for us.

 

You've rarely seemed keen on young players and we've signed some pretty awful older guys too over the years who hardly reflected the judgemental genius of our managers at the time. I wonder how many managers/coaches and scouts looked at Vardy and decided he wasn't good enough - and a good many more who broke through a bit later than most.

 

Sometimes it seems there are more factors to consider than talent and even when there isn't you can join in any football conversation with football professionals, journalists, regular fans or armchair critics and they will have a vastly different opinion of some players.

 

Even on here there's significant differences about the merits of clearly talented players like Mahrez, Slimani, Gray, Chilwell and most everyone else to a lesser extent and it is clear to me that players simply never get a break for one reason or another, be it personal or circumstantial.

 

Managers and coaches can do a lot to evolve a favoured player's career but equally they can ruin the careers of people they don't like for whatever reason and I can think of several. 

 

Look at Kramaric for a recent, if untimely example, given his penalty miss against Liverpool this week. He did nothing for us but was good enough to  earn a regular place in a fairly sucessful Hoffenheim team, claim a good few goals or assists and be first choice for a European cup game against Liverpool which is hardly the portrait of a no-hoper.

 

What worries me is that we seem to be moving from being a balanced team of quick youngish players and stout experienced defensively minded players to a team that's focusing far more on experience and gradually falling short on both speed and stamina.

 

Maguire may have qualities but he's slow. Huth, Morgan and Drinkwater aren't quick and have started falling foul of injuries and fatigue. The experienced Iborra's already on the injured list, James struggles to last the pace of 90 minutes, King's so far down the pecking order he's not even utilised for 15/20 minutes that seemed tailored to his ball-retaining talents, Ulloa's lost much of the threat that once made him a worthwhile alternative and there's absolutely no-one who seems likely to be coming through.

 

We have to buy in and we've not been good at that of late,  for all the faith in professional judgement you seem to show.

 

This isn't an rallying cry for anyone. It's well known I have serious doubts about Gray. Chilwell's got promise but is showing no signs of being able to make any one position his own any more than Amartey or Musa.

 

The season's started, but all these sometimes longstanding problems remain and, meanwhile, we're  beginning to look like a team of old timers in need of a rest and a drink in some areas.

 

There needs to be a balance with young people like Hirst pushing for the chance to make their mark.

 

We'd claim to have offered chances but they've been very sparing and some players seem to have become inhibited in first team company which reflects a lack of confidence rather than ability.   .            

                                

    

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Stevosevic

Stevosevic

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Pretty condemning of our attitude this.

 

www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/tom-lawrence-reveals-wanted-leave-333344

 

 

No other Premier League teams were interested otherwise he would be at one now.

 

7m is cheap for a Premier League club, even a player from the Championship, and it seems nobody thought he was good enough.

 

I don't think any player we've let go to the Championship has proved us wrong yet - even Knocky has it all to prove this season.

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