Is Shakespeare the right man for the job?

[Izzy]

5 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I do have to be honest. I think Shakey looks like a fat slob

 

There's also a bit of a serious point here though I think mate...

 

I was always of the school that a good Manager/Leader has the right balance of approachability and credibility.

 

I think Shakey is an approachable bloke but I do wonder about his credibility sometimes (hasn't managed before, didn't do much as a player etc) and he doesn't exactly 'look' the part either.

 

I'm not saying losing weight and wearing a suit is the answer, but I do wonder if some of the players see him as their mate and a bit of a soft touch?

 

I might be totally wrong though. Just a thought...

 

[filbertway]

Nagelsmann's Hoffenheim seems to be picking up where they left off last season. Would still take him.

[HankMarvin]

2 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

There's also a bit of a serious point here though I think mate...

 

I was always of the school that a good Manager/Leader has the right balance of approachability and credibility.

 

I think Shakey is an approachable bloke but I do wonder about his credibility sometimes (hasn't managed before, didn't do much as a player etc) and he doesn't exactly 'look' the part either.

 

I'm not saying losing weight and wearing a suit is the answer, but I do wonder if some of the players see him as their mate and a bit of a soft touch?

 

I might be totally wrong though. Just a thought...

 

He doesn't impose authority thats for sure

[Col city fan]

7 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

There's also a bit of a serious point here though I think mate...

 

I was always of the school that a good Manager/Leader has the right balance of approachability and credibility.

 

I think Shakey is an approachable bloke but I do wonder about his credibility sometimes (hasn't managed before, didn't do much as a player etc) and he doesn't exactly 'look' the part either.

 

I'm not saying losing weight and wearing a suit is the answer, but I do wonder if some of the players see him as their mate and a bit of a soft touch?

 

I might be totally wrong though. Just a thought...

 

No, I was thinking the same thing watching MOTD. His interview after the game was also very disjointed. That's the first time I've heard him get his wording wrong.

I'm sure you're right..he is approachable. But you need respect too. He might have it, but his image is poor imo.

[orangecity23]

1 minute ago, HankMarvin said:

If it wasn't the  "new manager bounce" why hasn't his managerial ability got more wins since???

 

Lots of ifs and buts each game, but im sure every manager could say that every game...

 

3 wins in 14 since the bubble burst, and the players got used to CS as manager

Wahey, so you've once again expanded the window to include the maximum number of losses. Did you know that if you ignore all the games he has won, then he has won no games? Terrible stats, what a loser. Can't you get it through your head, that his stats are being skewed by a small window of games which are disproportionately made up of games against Top 4/5 teams, the most difficult teams in the league to play against.

 

Lets talk his full league record:

P 19 W 8 D 3 L 8

 

The losses are against Man City, Man Utd, Spurs, Arsenal x 2, Liverpool, Everton and Chelsea. These are difficult fixtures, even the top clubs don't get out of fixtures like that without losing a few games. Klopp played Man City and got absolutely spanked,Arsenal got thrashed by Liverpool, Chelsea beat Spurs. He has not lost a single game against opposition outside of that traditional "top 7" group. Shakey will start picking up wins, when we start playing more of the teams from the bottom end of the table. We have been dealt the hardest set of opening fixtures out of any of the Premier League teams, and despite that, we are still not bottom of the table. Our form will recover, we only have Man City and Tottenham left to play in the first half of the season, every other fixture is against easier teams than what we have faced so far.

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

He doesn't impose authority thats for sure

Yeah that's a good way of putting what I'm trying to say.

 

We obviously don't see and hear what goes on behind closed doors and in the changing room, so may be doing him a disservice.

 

I'm not sure how you motivate a team of millionaires as Peter Ried once said, but I do wonder if Shakey is capable of giving them a rocket up the arse when required.

 

Saying all that, I'm still willing to give him time to get it right....

[Samilktray]

14 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Nagelsmann's Hoffenheim seems to be picking up where they left off last season. Would still take him.

So would Bayern by the sounds of things

[orangecity23]

Just now, Samilktray said:

So would Bayern by the sounds of things

Standard Bayern behaviour . Is it good? Is it in the Bundesliga? Buy it, eliminate competition, stroll to title again.

[st albans fox]

Well done to orangecity23 for making relevant points although the thread wouldn't exist if someone didn't want to have a pop at the manager so it's not really a surprise to see it attract comments from those who don't believe in him 

 

I'm confident that the owners of the club are intelligent enough to wait for us to get to December and then see where we are. Of course if we lose the next four games then that would be a problem for craig. 

 

That said, I remain surprised that at no point has he tried 3-5-2 thus far. Maybe because we have never really been out of games he hasn't felt he has nothing to lose. I think he lacks a bit of confidence and is therefore a tad too conservative in his game management 

[filbertway]

6 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

So would Bayern by the sounds of things

Haha yeah fair one, his stocks probably a little higher than we can attract now.

[HankMarvin]

7 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

Wahey, so you've once again expanded the window to include the maximum number of losses. Did you know that if you ignore all the games he has won, then he has won no games? Terrible stats, what a loser. Can't you get it through your head, that his stats are being skewed by a small window of games which are disproportionately made up of games against Top 4/5 teams, the most difficult teams in the league to play against.

 

Lets talk his full league record:

P 19 W 8 D 3 L 8

 

The losses are against Man City, Man Utd, Spurs, Arsenal x 2, Liverpool, Everton and Chelsea. These are difficult fixtures, even the top clubs don't get out of fixtures like that without losing a few games. Klopp played Man City and got absolutely spanked,Arsenal got thrashed by Liverpool, Chelsea beat Spurs. He has not lost a single game against opposition outside of that traditional "top 7" group. Shakey will start picking up wins, when we start playing more of the teams from the bottom end of the table. We have been dealt the hardest set of opening fixtures out of any of the Premier League teams, and despite that, we are still not bottom of the table. Our form will recover, we only have Man City and Tottenham left to play in the first half of the season, every other fixture is against easier teams than what we have faced so far.

I didn't say sack him now, but just because teams are easier opposition doesn't mean that they will be easy games - as the opposing team will thinking the same thing about Leicester.

Im talking about results that have happened, its easy to say we should be winning games because they are easier on paper lets actually see this happen in the next few matches.

 

How long would you give Shakey if results don't improve against the "easier opposition" ??

[orangecity23]

1 hour ago, HankMarvin said:

I didn't say sack him now, but just because teams are easier opposition doesn't mean that they will be easy games - as the opposing team will thinking the same thing about Leicester.

Im talking about results that have happened, its easy to say we should be winning games because they are easier on paper lets actually see this happen in the next few matches.

 

How long would you give Shakey if results don't improve against the "easier opposition" ??

I'd like to see him given at least half the season - that's a fair shake, playing all teams once, and gives a good idea of how the whole season would pan out. All things are relative though, if we start getting thrashed by teams like Swansea or Southampton, as Ranieri was doing, then he'd obviously have to go. If performances are generally good and we are slightly unlucky in a few games then he deserves a bit of patience.

[Col city fan]

39 minutes ago, orangecity23 said:

I'd like to see him given at least half the season - that's a fair shake, playing all teams once, and gives a good idea of how the whole season would pan out. All things are relative though, if we start getting thrashed by teams like Swansea or Southampton, as Ranieri was doing, then he'd obviously have to go. If performances are generally good and we are slightly unlucky in a few games then he deserves a bit of patience.

I genuinely think he'll be sacked if we are near bottom at Christmas. The next run of games I believe, is a very important time for the club. 

[HankMarvin]

4 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I genuinely think he'll be sacked if we are near bottom at Christmas. The next run of games I believe, is a very important time for the club. 

Hmmm im not so sure they would sack him, they seem very loyal to those who have brought success ( See NP) I wonder if they would sound out Fat Sam if CS is struggling so Shakey can revert roles.

[PintsandPyro]

No, i dont think he will last the seaoson to be honest. Liverpool we did play quite well and deserved something out of the game, but CS doesnt seem tactically capable and seems out of his depth. Cannot see him lasting the season.

[norwichfox]

It's just a thought, but does Shakespeare need to surround himself with better "advisor's/coaches" who are more experienced in the Premiership than Appleton and Stowell.

[Callabinho]

Time isn’t something we have, if things don’t improve he’s gone whether we like it or not, simple as that! 

[Countryfox]

2 minutes ago, norwichfox said:

It's just a thought, but does Shakespeare need to surround himself with better "advisor's/coaches" who are more experienced in the Premiership than Appleton and Stowell.

Pearson and Ranieri might bring something to the party ...   

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

3 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

I didn't say sack him now, but just because teams are easier opposition doesn't mean that they will be easy games - as the opposing team will thinking the same thing about Leicester.

Im talking about results that have happened, its easy to say we should be winning games because they are easier on paper lets actually see this happen in the next few matches.

 

How long would you give Shakey if results don't improve against the "easier opposition" ??

Yeah, if you look at the next run of fixtures, none of those are points in the bag. I'm sure we'll do ok, but need to be winning most of those games to have a respectable first half of the season and they are by no means easy matches. Shakespeare will be tested and could easily be sacked

[Sionnach gorm]

Must say I've read a lot on here and many make some good points on both sides.  I don't believe Shakey will get us relegated.  I don't like Shakey particularly, but this tendency of getting rid of a manager because he has a bad spell is counterproductive.  Shakey may not be up for this league as a manager (and this hasn't been determined yet) but he's not incompetent.  I still believe we were daft at sacking Ranieri.  I believe we'll be daft at sacking Shakey.  He needs time to find his footing, all managers do, unless you have top tier players (and even sometimes there). His decisions may look crazy at the moment, but without intimate knowledge of the players, we cannot assume anything.  Shakey needs a full year.  We owe that much.  After this season the board can make the judgement.

Edited 24 September 2017 by Sionnach gorm

[Kitchandro]

The thing with writing these losses off because they're against bigger sides is that you miss the more important issues.

 

It's the approach to games that's more worrying and we haven't had a good performance since The Arsenal game, and we lost that because we couldn't do the basics at the back. That in itself is a serious problem. Even against Brighton, a poor side, we didn't create much and there wasn't much in terms of encouragement there.

 

I think the Huddersfield game highlights where we really are. We were outplayed by a promoted side and all because they had better tactics and intensity.

 

We regularly start games with no tempo and only when we go behind do we have a go. Most of our performances since Shakespeare took over highlight this.

 

To me, it's irrelevant whether it's been a tough start or if we are likely to get relegated. A football club has to be very careful that it doesn't stagnate.If we are stagnating, or even going backwards as the case may be, then we need to make a change in management soon.

 

We won't be relegated this season but it's only a matter of time until Shakespeare is sacked due to repeated underperformance. I give it a year. By that time, any potential we have will have gone and we'll scratching around for another one-dimensional escape artist. This often ends up with a recurring cycle of continued struggle until our luck runs out and we go down.

 

That's what happens when you appoint the wrong manager, and it simply isn't good enough to keep making excuses for him in an attempt to be 'fair'. The club cannot afford a passive, reactive attitude - one similar to how Shakespeare is managing the team.

 

Start scouting for good managers now. I'd take someone like Wagner - my concern with him was Huddersfield don't score many goals. But he's likely do better in that department with better players and he sets his teams up to play with tempo, pressing and high intensity. That's perfect for us.

[norwichfox]

29 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Pearson and Ranieri might bring something to the party ...   

Both of whom had Shakespeare as their "advisor"...my guess is that Ranieri didn't really listen to him a great deal and we went on to win the Title.

[Col city fan]

48 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Hmmm im not so sure they would sack him, they seem very loyal to those who have brought success ( See NP) I wonder if they would sound out Fat Sam if CS is struggling so Shakey can revert roles.

My bad. I think you're right. 'Relieved of his managerial duties', I suspect.

[Chico1958]

In other news Nantes won 1-2 away from home

 

Up to 5th in Ligue 1 and Papa Mendy has played 3 games for Nice

 

Any chance we can recall him Craig   ?       

[Joefox]

Too early to tell. Let’s see how he gets on in the next 5-6 games.

 

Though it is quite possible he could be gone by Christmas. The owners won’t **** about if we are in or hovering just above the relegation zone.

Edited 24 September 2017 by Joefox