Catalan Election Spanish Police Again

[The Year Of The Fox]

Whilst we're in the EU we're contributing to this style of policing even if only by association 

 

Get gone ASAP

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Whilst we're in the EU we're contributing to this style of policing even if only by association 

 

Get gone ASAP

 

I've seen some dumb reasons put forward for Brexit, but I think that's a winner.

[David Guiza]

1 minute ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Whilst we're in the EU we're contributing to this style of policing even if only by association 

 

Get gone ASAP

Yep, police brutality is an EU only issue and by association to the organisation we aren't condoning what is happening.

[FoxesDeb]

Can't actually believe there are people on here defending them tbqh 

[Izzy]

The size of those rubber bullets being fired - kin el!

 

They're as big as bloody tennis balls! 

[Finnaldo]

5 hours ago, Innovindil said:

They're doing their job and upholding the Spanish constitution, exactly what they are paid to do. 

 

Total nonsense. Their job was to stop the vote, that's easily achieved by non-violent and non-confrontational means as our police force has done this many times before with more violent protests. What the Spanish government did was brutally suppress an entirely peaceful movement. It's illegality means nothing when no-one was threatened by it and the police still went in and attacked with batons and rubber bullets.

 

If they were just doing their job, there wouldn't be videos of state riot troops beating firemen and local Catalonian police for trying to stop attacks on defenceless, peaceful citizens. 

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, Webbo said:

I was in Barcelona on Wednesday. There were loads of Catalan flags and flags saying si .  I didn't see a single anti independence poster or flag, although its possible that some people feel intimidated.

 

I saw one poster in a window and it seems like they're claiming most of the East Coast including Valencia and a bit beyond.

 

Apparently the pro Spanish in Catalonia aren't voting or campaigning because they see it as illegal. They're boycotting entirely. 

 

So the yes vote will be the overwhelming majority anyway but the turn out obviously will reflect those abstaining / boycotting. 

 

The majority probably are pro independence but I don't think it's as clear cut as they'd like people to believe. 

 

Madrid will fight tooth and nail to stop it though. Spain is always hesitant to acknowledge new countries and autonomy votes, they hate to see it going on in the world because they fear it sets a precedent for them in a country made up of several distinct "nations."

 

Its a weird system, Spain. It's not quite a union of countries like ours, not on paper, but the Catalans, Basques (who'd be next out if Catalonia goes), Galicians and to an extent Andalusians all have quite distinct identities. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, David Guiza said:

How long until the Cornish take note?  

 

they're already tooling up

[FoxesDeb]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41459692

 

Absolutely sickening behaviour from so called protectors in civilised society. From the cvnt who launches himself down the stairs seemingly onto someone, to the rest of them constantly kicking and throwing people around. 

[Guest FriendlyRam]

Theyve picked the wrong team though,, by going against the people they could have just gotten their families and themselves killed.

 

The hound dogs will be let off the leash and the people will turn a blind eye,, these riot police really have no clue and dont realise what their up against.

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, David Guiza said:

Yep, police brutality is an EU only issue and by association to the organisation we aren't condoning what is happening.

The behaviour of the European Union on this has been a disgrace though.

 

They have already backed Madrid and the President of the European Commission warned the Catalans against "separatist adventures" and asserting that “regional traditions” should not “set themselves as elements of separatism and fragmentation of Europe".

 

Think we also now have some proper clarity and certainty the Spanish would veto Scottish membership. 

[pleatout]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

 

Total nonsense. Their job was to stop the vote, that's easily achieved by non-violent and non-confrontational means as our police force has done this many times before with more violent protests. What the Spanish government did was brutally suppress an entirely peaceful movement. It's illegality means nothing when no-one was threatened by it and the police still went in and attacked with batons and rubber bullets.

 

If they were just doing their job, there wouldn't be videos of state riot troops beating firemen and local Catalonian police for trying to stop attacks on defenceless, peaceful citizens. 

This......

 

The irony of it all.  In a democracy how can a vote be illegal and how/why would a government have the right to stop it?

 

They can ignore it, they can say it is irrelevant.  But votes happen all over the place from political elections, share holder elections to the the trivial striclty come pop factor on ice nonsense.  Is an illegal vote even a thing?

[Webbo]

When you deny people a vote and then oppress opposition with violence what choice do you give people who want change? I really hope this doesn't create a new terrorism situation.

[The Year Of The Fox]

3 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I've seen some dumb reasons put forward for Brexit, but I think that's a winner.

Countries like Spain and France are some of the higher regarded members of the EU. 

When they have policing methods like that  they're showing the world for what they really are- third world countries by our standards 

 

Get gone.

[bovril]

Utter madness. All the polls suggested that the independence vote would be lost or, if won, diffused politically. Now the Spanish government have basically declared war on their own people. 

[VLC86]

First twatty journalist to label this Barxit goes straight to ****ing hell.

[nnfox]

The history behind the division runs deep in Spain, this is a serious issue that harks back to the civil war which is still in living memory for some.  The Spanish government would do whatever any other sensible government would do - rule it illegal and shut it down.  They don't want any vote coming out that indicates the support for a break - especially an illegal one where essentially everyone voting will vote for the same thing.  If there was a 20% turnout and 100% voted "si", which percentage would make the headlines?  In which direction would the momentum flow?

 

This is the reason that Spain would never allow Scotland to join the EU in their own right, as the pressure to allow an independence referendum would be too great.

 

So yes, I can see why it needed shutting down and it would have been known that it would have not been a straightforward, peaceful task.  But it hasn't gone smoothly.  I'm not sure there will be any winners once the dust settles.

[katieakita]

Sadly we know very little of the Spanish civil war where there were more Spanish casualties in this conflict than British casualties in WW2, the divides run deep but this oppression is not the way to resolve things going forward

[Innovindil]

"We have won the right to have an independent state in the form of a republic," said Mr Puigdemont in a televised address flanked by other senior Catalan leaders.

 

..... Good luck with that.  

 

[Lionator]

Good old Boris, he's gone full on Trump mode.

 

 

[goose2010]

I was there the other week when it was their bank holiday their independence day. The Catalans used it to peacefully protest, it was very peaceful and quite interesting for an outsider to witness. I must say they you could see pockets of police ready to pounce the bigger the crowds got, and by the night time there was a lot of trouble and it was for no apprent reason. We were speaking to a guy in a bar and he was dreading today as he said the police were waiting for it like it was a free excuse to attack their own, unfortunately it looks like he was right. Watching Barcelona today on sky playing behind close doors was just odd pique actually cried during an interview after said it was the worst thing in football he has ever experienced. 

[GaelicFox]

Freedom is coming for Catalans , the horse has bolted and no amount of facist police will stop the gallop to independence 

 

now it’s a matter of when NOT if 

 

the spanish have two choices 

 

1) negotiate a settlement

 

or 

 

2) spill blood to protect the status quo 

 

 

I can see this turning to a conflict and the basque people will be next ! 

 

The European Union is Imploding 

[Guest MattP]

The Vice-President of the European Parliament ladies and gentleman. 

 

You won't them see in uniform waving batons but rest assured they'll be just as brutal towards the Catalan people, behind the scenes with a pen rather than a sword. 

 

 

[Finnegan]

33 minutes ago, MattP said:

The Vice-President of the European Parliament ladies and gentleman. 

 

You won't them see in uniform waving batons but rest assured they'll be just as brutal towards the Catalan people, behind the scenes with a pen rather than a sword. 

 

 

 

Purely playing devil's advocate, there is some truth in that though. 

 

I compared it to the Scotch referendum earlier but actually, how would we respond if the SNP had held an illegal, unsanctioned vote even though the majority of their people were polling remain? 

 

It is nationalistic, it is one of Spain's most affluent regions posturing for more control, it is propaganda and it isn't particularly democratic given that it was boycotted by the no vote. 

 

I'm hugely in favour of any group of people who consider themselves a nation being given the right to self govern. I'll always support a genuine cause for independence where the majority want it, Kosovo should be an independent nation globally recognised - its a disgrace it still isn't accepted by many countries. 

 

But nationalist populism holding a majority to ransom by shouting the loudest? If Sinn Fein, Plaid Cymru or the SNP pulled a stunt like like this there would be outrage here. 

 

Madrid had responded both horribly and stupidly. Shutting it down the way they have was both evil and ill advised and they deserve the condemnation of the rest of Europe for the way they've beaten and assaulted their own people. 

 

But Puigdemont isn't completely innocent in all of this either. 

 

Spain should have had the confidence to give them a legitimate referendum, frankly, because it would have failed. I'm guessing the main reason they won't is because Basque Country, Galicia and whoever else would follow suit which is why they're one of the above countries that refuse to recognise Kosovo. 

[Guest BlueBrett]

This is not about democracy.

 

It's about identity, legitimacy and authority. Fascinating concepts rarely afforded due consideration. One day enough people will give a shit and have the brains to interrogate fundamental underpinnings like these and when they do I can only imagine our entire divisive system of essentially arbitrary, 'autonomous' sovereign states will collapse. Can't wait.