RIP FA Cup

[grobyfox1990]

4 minutes ago, Nalis said:

 

I can only put it down to us playing 4 games in 10 days or whatever it was. No excuses for the replay or 4th round onwards.

Yeh definitely, one game a week from now on pretty much. 

[davieG]

PL 

 

Position	Prize money
1	£38m
2	£36.1m
3	£34.2m
4	£32.3m
5	£30.4m
6	£28.5m
7	£26.6m
8	£24.7m
9	£22.8m
10	£20.9m
11	£19m
12	£17.1m
13	£15.2m
14	£13.3m
15	£11.4m
16	£9.5m
17	£7.6m
18	£5.7m
19	£3.8m
20	£1.9m

 

 

Emirates FA Cup Prize Fund

Extra preliminary round winners	(185)	£1,500
Semi-Final winners	(2)	£900,000
Semi-Final losers	(2)	£450,000
Final runners-up	(1)	£900,000
Final winners	(1)	£1,800,000

[UniFox21]

I don't think the scheduling of the premier league helps one bit. The majority of sides have had to squeeze so many games into a short space of time, a manager is bound to not want to risk his first teamers for the the cup, given that a lot of the games will be scrappy and people could be injured. Now if they'd done this after a less stressful period of games, then I think we'd see a lot more of the prem teams putting out stronger teams. 

 

Sadly, at the end of the day, the TV money is killing a lot of the heart in the game whilst trying to grow it

[Stadt]

“Trophey”

[Koke]

I disagree kind of.

 

The winners of the FA Cup in the last 20 years prove that the big clubs do care.

 

The FA Cup winners since 1996:

 

Arsenal 

Man Utd

Arsenal 

Arsenal 

Wigan

Chelsea

Man City 

Chelsea

Chelsea 

Portsmouth 

Chelsea

Liverpool

Arsenal

Man Utd

Arsenal 

Arsenal

Liverpool 

Chelsea

Man Utd

Arsenal

Chelsea

Man Utd

 

So in 21 years the only non-big clubs who have won it are Wigan and Portsmouth. That shows big clubs do take it seriously. The FA Cup have been handed around by the top 5 for over two decades. I'll bet anyone that this year it'll be won by another top 5/6 club.

[Super_horns]

The top sides generally have the better squads so their reserves are  usually good enough to win against most sides ..

 

And actually as Arsenal have proven winning the cup can save an average season for them.

Edited 7 January 2018 by Super_horns

[yorkie1999]

Don't blame the death of the FA cup on the teams, blame whoever's responsible for cramming so many fixtures into a short period of time and the person who dreams up playing international friendlies 6-15 weeks into the season.

[Countryfox]

29 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

Actually, they don't have to. They choose to. And I don't need to tell you that there is no direct correlation between cup runs and bad league form, you already knew that.

 

A lot of managers lack the courage to go for real glory and the moral fibre to think about the club's fans, they only care about their reputations and collecting the huge amount of money they earn.

 

The managers of clubs in the top 2 divisions are primarily to blame, and that in tandem with the owners greed has ruined the competition. The money men only care about the FA Cup when they can squeeze a few extra quid out of ticket prices and that doesn't help either. Crowds are low these days because who will pay that much for a game that is essentially treated like a reserve match?

 

I'm not as passive on this issue as some people seem to be. Managers, and chairmen infact, have a responsibility to try and achieve success and success is trophies. If they treat the cups with no respect, as our manager is doing, then he should be absolutely slaughtered for it. The only reason these people have a job is because we exist so our aspirations for the club are important.

 

I think that is a bit unfair on CP.  He is there to do what the owners want to the best of his ability.  If we had lost do you think he would have been hauled before them and told to pack his bags ? ..   I think not.  If, however, he had played Mahrez and he had one of his legs snapped by one of their lumbering defenders, I’m pretty sure he would have been battered and on a final warning.     And ...    I will not criticise our owners cus of what they have achieved for this club.   However, I do understand your pain ..    I’m STILL fookin angry about our last cup exit ...   what an opportunity that was !! ...    and on that occasion, and for lots of positive reasons, we should have really gone for it.

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, Koke said:

I disagree kind of.

 

The winners of the FA Cup in the last 20 years prove that the big clubs do care.

 

The FA Cup winners since 1996:

 

Arsenal 

Man Utd

Arsenal 

Arsenal 

Wigan

Chelsea

Man City 

Chelsea

Chelsea 

Portsmouth 

Chelsea

Liverpool

Arsenal

Man Utd

Arsenal 

Arsenal

Liverpool 

Chelsea

Man Utd

Arsenal

Chelsea

Man Utd

 

So in 21 years the only non-big clubs who have won it are Wigan and Portsmouth. That shows big clubs do take it seriously. The FA Cup have been handed around by the top 5 for over two decades. I'll bet anyone that this year it'll be won by another top 5/6 club.

Because they can still put out a decent quality reserve team coupled with the mid/lower PL teams also putting out weakened teams that are proportional low quality as their 1st teams.

[Matt]

11 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

I don't think the scheduling of the premier league helps one bit. The majority of sides have had to squeeze so many games into a short space of time, a manager is bound to not want to risk his first teamers for the the cup, given that a lot of the games will be scrappy and people could be injured. Now if they'd done this after a less stressful period of games, then I think we'd see a lot more of the prem teams putting out stronger teams. 

 

Sadly, at the end of the day, the TV money is killing a lot of the heart in the game whilst trying to grow it

I don't think the scheduling of pointless International games that no-one gives a fuck about helps one bit.

 

Cut those games, you wouldn't have a fixture pile up, no extra games over Christmas, no need for a winter break and no squeezing games into a short space of time.

[Spudulike]

40 minutes ago, Karljohn said:

FA Cup was dead years ago, United's choice to play in World club cup, Semi finals at Wembley and failure to enforce a minimum number of regular players have all contributed. 

Agree. The FA Cup died with the demolition of the old Wembley and the Twin Towers. The Cardiff years finally did for it and it never recovered.

 

Sad

[NewEnglandFox]

7 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

I would have thought that Emirates sponsoring it would have meant the winners would get more money than that... Wow that really does show you why clubs don't give a Fuch about the FA cup

FA cup prize money vs. PL merit pay are a very small part of the story. Also prize money in the FA cup is cumulative by round so the win is worth £3.4m for round 3 on, not just the £1.8 listed. There are TV deals on both sides, the base pay in the PL and the 45% gate split for cup games. I read last night that the 45% split at Man U was £1.4M which is massive for any lower league club getting that draw. The TV rights at like 150k for a round and 75k for a replay in the cup. Also there is Europe on the line. And the Europa League opens up new revenue streams as well.

 

It'd take an Excel sheet to figure out how much the Cup is worth but for us where it can be the difference of Europe and no Europe that's ****ing massive.

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, somebum said:

Watching all these bigger sides sending out the kids and reserves a la joker cola cup days of the 90s, it just reaffirms my belief that this so called 'major trophey' is nothing more than a crappy marketing ploy that no one below the big league really takes seriously any more.

 

sad to see but true, but it makes our decision to do it even more stupid. Why not make a fist of it who is ultimately responsible for this outrage

 

The big clubs are taking it seriously as are we. They're just resting their big players and sending out teams who should be more than capable of winning their matches. The Man City and Liverpool sides wouldn't have been as strong if they were playing weaker opposition.

 

Us yesterday put out a side that was more than capable of beating Fleetwood, we just used the opportunity to give some big players a rest and play some fringe players.

[I am an Ostrich]

Since the Prem Lge started the FA Cup as been won by a top 6 side 22 times from 25 not a bad record especially if they not bothered? 

[Gerard]

55 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

But we didn't win!! I agree great tactics if you can get away with it.

 

That's a bit like telling a cricketer to play his shots but don't get out. 

 

Puel weighed up the pros and cons of playing a weakened side and tbf he has got away with it as we have a replay which we should still win by playing a similar side. 

 

Puel was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. If we played our best XI yesterday and won 3-0 and Mahrez done his hamstring then there would be plenty giving Puel pelters for not resting him and moaning about how pointless it was recalling Harvey Barnes.

 

Bottom line is not one of the Fleetwood players would have got in the Leicester side yesterday.

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, KFS said:

It's just premier league cup by the time it gets to the quarters anyway, and everyone is happy with that.

 

There'll probably be about 5 of the top 6 that make the QF's and even if we're still in it then you still feel we're making up the numbers. I hope more elite sides play their weakened teams and come a cropper which gives the rest of us a better chance of winning it.

[Facecloth]

I think people are going a bit ott. Most the top flight clubs have named strong teams this weekend where they've had too. Man City, Man City, Liverpool, Everton, Burnley and West Brom have all named first teams, whilst Spurs, Stoke, West Ham have used a lot of first team players (in fact WH have injury issues so no surprise a few were missing). For me only Arsenal and Chelsea went too far. I don't think it's disrespecting the cup when teams like Leicester name a team full of the players we expect to step in when our first choices are injured or suspended and expect them to win against a team two or three divisions below. You pick the team based on the draw you get, we were lucky with our draw that we got a lower league team and took the chance to rest first teamers and give the fringe players a go, sadly it didn't work out.

Edited 7 January 2018 by Facecloth

[Matt]

14 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I think people are going a bit ott. Most the top flight clubs have named strong teams this weekend where they've had too. Man City, Man City, Liverpool, Everton, Burnley and West Brom have all named first teams, whilst Spurs, Stoke, West Ham have used a lot of first team players (in fact WH have injury issues so no surprise a few were missing). For me only Arsenal and Chelsea went too far. I don't think it's disrespecting the cup when teams like Leicester name a team full of the players we expect to step in when our first choices are injured or suspended and expect them to win against a team two or three divisions below. You pick the team based on the draw you get, we were lucky with our draw that we got a lower league team and took the chance to rest first teamers and give the fringe players a go, sadly it didn't work out.

I know it was a different competition but we didn't do that v Man City.

[Facecloth]

Just now, Matt said:

I know it was a different competition but we didn't do that v Man City.

Neither did man city in that game tbf. We're talking about the fa cup, the league cup is another debate.

[Gerard]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

I know it was a different competition but we didn't do that v Man City.

 

Even though we were in the QF we were never that close to winning it. Even if we beat Man City it looked like we would have been in the SF draw with Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

I'm sure if we knew Bristol City would be our SF opponents we'd have played a stronger side or if the SF was three lesser clubs. Puel just played the percentages, I think some people want to see the best players week in week out regardless of tiredness and injury risks. Puel has a squad and he tries to manage it the best he can and he won't do that by picking the same XI week in week out.

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

Even though we were in the QF we were never that close to winning it. Even if we beat Man City it looked like we would have been in the SF draw with Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

I'm sure if we knew Bristol City would be our SF opponents we'd have played a stronger side or if the SF was three lesser clubs. Puel just played the percentages, I think some people want to see the best players week in week out regardless of tiredness and injury risks. Puel has a squad and he tries to manage it the best he can and he won't do that by picking the same XI week in week out.

What's the point in even entering the competitions next year if that's the attitude?

Edited 7 January 2018 by Matt

[mo-rima]

Hate to say it..

Well done forest

[Chico1958]

Chelsea have a massive game next week against Leicester

 

Man Utd got Stoke

 

Both are must wins for both of them, however Man Utd put out a strong team.

 

If you want to make the Cup serious for the "Bigger" Clubs replace the winner with the fourth place

 

I'm quite looking forward to the Newport v Notts County final by the way  

 

Ps: Nobodies mentioned the benefits of the gate receipts the  clubs get out of it 

[Gerard]

Just now, Matt said:

Hopefully we don't enter the competitions next year if that's the attitude then.

 

It's about management and the balance of keeping your best players in the best condition whilst keeping the squad match fit and motivated. You balance that with risk and reward.

 

What you are saying is keep flogging the best XI until they break down and are then forced to be replaced.

 

If Fleetwood was the SF yesterday instead of the 3rd round I've no doubt we'd have put our best XI out as it's a much more important game that we can't risk losing. Puel put out a side that should still beat Fleetwood comfortably. Yesterday wasn't a disaster as we're still in the Cup and we've managed to rest some key players and Puel may also be a bit wiser about the quality of the squad.

[Facecloth]

Funny isn't it, we've just seen Forest beat Arsenal and loved it. We saw Coventry topple Stoke and enjoyed that too. But then we moan when top teams go out early or are beaten or held by lower league teams. We want the magic of the cup until we get it and then we moan that the cups dying