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Finnegan

"Rooney" Rule

By Finnegan, in General Football and Sport

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Finnegan

Finnegan

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12 hours ago, Corky said:

In the BBC Sport article it says that the BAME candidate will need to show they meet the relevant criteria for the job.

 

When Gareth Southgate is your national manager, what exactly is the relevant criteria? 

 

"Has managed a football team."

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David Guiza

David Guiza

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Really don't see why the introduction of it is an issue. BAME candidates will be considered for the job, not automatically employed as a form of reparation. The moment that anyone is employed on factors other than their ability it becomes a huge issue, but that isn't what is happening here. 

 

The argument of 'oh well just look at Paul Ince, he's his own reason as to why he isn't employed' is just lazy too. The same argument could easily be made regarding gender and historical figures, is the reason that there are significantly more male historical figures down to ability or opportunity? Yes the FA are utter dinosaurs, but the imbalance between players and managers is plain to see. This initiative isn't just solely sport based either, the same initiative has been used to tackle other professions such as law where there is an equally ridiculous imbalance. 

 

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davieG

davieG

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I wouldn't want to be the next one recruited because when they fail which will inevitably happen because seemingly 99% of managers do the social media will be full of this is what happens when you do this sort of thing, whether they were recruited through this or not.

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Wymsey

Wymsey

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Posted (edited)

I agree about 'equal opportunities' etc, but personally feel some of the campaigners for these types of proposals are trying to allow certain individual types more of a opportunity than others; and if these certain types don't get something (such as any advertised job etc), they'll protest it and claim it's 'discrimination'..

Edited by Wymeswold fox
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RonnieTodger

RonnieTodger

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It's just a complete waste of time. What happens when Jimmy Floyd-Hasseilbank rocks up to the interview because Hughton isn't interested and is up against better candidates?


Obviously it's a flawed concept, but surely it's better being implemented in the lower leagues because the problem for black managers is supposedly lack of opportunities. Why throw someone in at the highest level only?

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Facecloth

Facecloth

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Surely clubs need looking at on an individual basis. If they are found to be denying a black coach or manager an interview when an equally qualified white coach or manager gets an interview, we have a problem. But forcing clubs to interview certain groups when there may be none interested or available isn't going to improve things. Making sure nobody is denied an opportunity is the way to go, not forcing something on people when they may not want. 

 

Football management is a funny business, a club may remove a manager as soon as another leaves his current role because they've already decided they want him in charge, so often there isn't an interview process at all.

 

I've found the biggest backers of rules such as this are people like Sol Campbell and Dwight Yorke who think they should walk into a top flight club with no badges and no experience of coaching at any level, or Jason Roberts, who by his own admission has no interest in going into football management so has no idea if he or others are being discriminated against.

 

I think we're looking for an answer when we don't know the actual question. We know we don't have many black managers but how many are trying, how many are applying for jobs, how many have badges? I'd like to see the numbers on that before we start bringing in rules such as this, as it just seems a bit of backwards way of looking at it. How can you assume there is ingrained racism in the boardrooms of English football when you've never checked if BAME candidates are being denied opportunities?

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davieG

davieG

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The PL is virtually a closed shop for British managers of any description.

 

If you're not some reasonably successful foreign manager or are British and have already managed a PL club then you've pretty much go no chance of a job.

 

Getting promoted from the Championship is fast becoming the only way a British manager can get a PL league job.

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Captain...

Captain...

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/10/2018 at 17:14, Facecloth said:

Surely clubs need looking at on an individual basis. If they are found to be denying a black coach or manager an interview when an equally qualified white coach or manager gets an interview, we have a problem. But forcing clubs to interview certain groups when there may be none interested or available isn't going to improve things. Making sure nobody is denied an opportunity is the way to go, not forcing something on people when they may not want. 

 

Football management is a funny business, a club may remove a manager as soon as another leaves his current role because they've already decided they want him in charge, so often there isn't an interview process at all.

 

I've found the biggest backers of rules such as this are people like Sol Campbell and Dwight Yorke who think they should walk into a top flight club with no badges and no experience of coaching at any level, or Jason Roberts, who by his own admission has no interest in going into football management so has no idea if he or others are being discriminated against.

 

I think we're looking for an answer when we don't know the actual question. We know we don't have many black managers but how many are trying, how many are applying for jobs, how many have badges? I'd like to see the numbers on that before we start bringing in rules such as this, as it just seems a bit of backwards way of looking at it. How can you assume there is ingrained racism in the boardrooms of English football when you've never checked if BAME candidates are being denied opportunities?

 

Exactly this, they have seen the Rooney rule and thought, "that works in America so it'll work here." There doesn't seem to be any thought or research into what the cause of the problem is. Similar problem but different cause, different circumstances, culture and demographics.

 

We all know how things work in the top 2 divisions, there is barely an interview process, it is a closed shop of managers who bring in their own staff and promote from within. The question needs to be how many jobs are actually out there to apply for? How many have an interview process? How many qualified BAME candidates are applying for these jobs. How many are getting interviewed? How many are getting jobs?

 

First we need to be looking at entry level coaching jobs, this rule should be nowhere near manager or head coach, or any role that requires experience, because no BAME have any experience and that's the point. I would have no problem if they had stricter rules about application handling for entry level jobs (this includes coaching, physios, sports science, nutritionists etc), remove name, gender, age and ethnicity from application form, you look at their experience, qualifications and covering letter. That is how you pick the candidates for interview. Then it is up to the candidate. The other thing that needs to be addressed is how many BAME are taking the courses to get the qualifications. There needs to be a pool of qualified candidates to pick from otherwise it is all moot. This is where your Sol Campbells and Dwight Yorkes can help. Get involved in local communities and encourage and support young BAME why not even set up an academy or sponsor them through their badges. Once there is a pool of qualified talent to chose from and a non discriminatory selection process, then the good candidates will find themselves in jobs and then as they get more experience they will move around with head coaches and progress up the ladder.

 

Edited by Captain...
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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Wales becomes the first British nation to hire a BME candidate with African heritage to manage their senior men's team, right? 

 

How's that for pioneering. We don't need no Rooney rule, we just won't hire no English after Bobby Gould. ;)

Surely Hodgson passes as BME being a closet Jew?

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Jordan

Jordan

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On 1/9/2018 at 18:30, Bert said:

You're either qualified and good enough for the job or you're not. 

Football is an industry in which: 

-By my count, 65 of the 92 league managers have been in their current roles for less than 2 years

-21 league managers have been sacked already this season

-There is a "manager merry-go-round," and Alan Pardew has a top-flight manager job

-Roy Hodgson was named England manager to universal yawning, and ended his tenure with a loss to Iceland

-This was followed by the "Football For Sale"-Allardyce scandal (remember, this happened just a year and a half ago)

-The FA didn't even read a full report that was prepared regarding inappropriate conduct engaged by Mark Sampson until three years after they hired him

-Ryan Giggs just walked into the manager role for a European championship semifinalist

-No club is offering Leicester a fee for Mahrez that's even a third of the fee Liverpool just collected for Coutinho 

-FIFA is the world's governing body--enough said

 

This is just a mere handful of examples I've pulled from my head, among the countless others that are out there, of how football is not a meritocracy.

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Bert

Bert

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6 hours ago, Jordan said:

Football is an industry in which: 

-By my count, 65 of the 92 league managers have been in their current roles for less than 2 years

-21 league managers have been sacked already this season

-There is a "manager merry-go-round," and Alan Pardew has a top-flight manager job

-Roy Hodgson was named England manager to universal yawning, and ended his tenure with a loss to Iceland

-This was followed by the "Football For Sale"-Allardyce scandal (remember, this happened just a year and a half ago)

-The FA didn't even read a full report that was prepared regarding inappropriate conduct engaged by Mark Sampson until three years after they hired him

-Ryan Giggs just walked into the manager role for a European championship semifinalist

-No club is offering Leicester a fee for Mahrez that's even a third of the fee Liverpool just collected for Coutinho 

-FIFA is the world's governing body--enough said

 

This is just a mere handful of examples I've pulled from my head, among the countless others that are out there, of how football is not a meritocracy.

Regardless of all this, it still doesn't matter and my point still stands. If they've got the right qualifications for the job they stand a chance. It's never been to do with race. 

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