"Rooney" Rule

[Jon the Hat]

Are we going to ignore the fact that there are clearly first roles for coaches, and that ensuring that there is opportunity for BAME candidates at that level could be an effective part of a plan to get more such players and indeed non players into the talent pool for future managers?  The press are talking about replacement for Southgate, but that really isn't the point at this stage is it?  You have to start somewhere.  Having said that, no reason why Chris Hughton can't be in the running if he has a good few seasons.

[SheppyFox]

I don’t understand, I don’t see colour and neither should anybody else. An interview for any job in any field should be conducted to determine whether the candidate is good enough for the job, and shouldn’t be pre determined by forced ethnic quotas.

 

As you say, nobody is going to want to think “I only got this job because I’m white, black or any other ethinicity” you’d want to think “I got the job because I’m the best at the job”.

Edited 9 January 2018 by SheppyFox

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Seems silly to me, just virtue signaling imo. 

[UPinCarolina]

It is absurd that with so many black players, there are so few managers or coaches.

The "Rooney Rule" though - it's just degrading. I would much rather see an effort to identify and encourage promising candidates of color.

[Samilktray]

2 hours ago, Kitchandro said:

It's totally degrading.

 

And I don't think anything 'needs to be done' either. Unless there is a law already in place that stops black people getting jobs that I don't know about?

 

Which black manager should have got a job that they didn't get?

 

 

 

The Rooney rule doesn't get them a job you Berk 

[Jordan]

It's nothing to get bent out of shape out of. Surely, the actual racism that's gone on in the FA and football are still much bigger problems than the FA having to do something as "horrible" as, say, interview Chris Hughton for the England job.

 

If the FA want to be more inclusive as a body, they also can't just say "we're all for promoting diversity all around the association, except for the England manager job; that one's special." 

 

The "Rooney rule" has generally been a good thing in the NFL. To use a more recent example, Todd Bowles went on 5 failed interviews before getting the Jets' head coaching job in 2015. Without going off on a tangent about the positives and negatives of Bowles' coaching performance, I'm certain Bowles would never have gotten the job without the "rule," whether by getting the interview in the first place or by the practice he got, and he's hardly the worst head coach out there. 

 

However, the "Rooney rule" can never achieve its intended end on its own because it doesn't open the true pipelines to achieving head coaching roles: college head coaching roles, coordinator positions, and quarterback coach roles. Part of this is down to racism, part of it is down to American football so often being stuck in outdated "conventional wisdom," part of it is due to head coaches gaining autonomy to bring in their own coordinators, and part of it can be any mix of the above. In its current incarnation, the "rule" and its overseers are prone to being gamed (look at what's gonna happen with the Raiders and Gruden), but even with its imperfections, the league is still better off with it than without it.

 

So, let's bring this back to England: A more effective plan, but hardly panacea, to improve diversity in management would be to implement a Rooney-style rule across the PL/EFL. The FA will have a harder time hiring a fantastic minority manager to lead the England squad if minority candidates aren't getting jobs, let alone interviews, on the club level--the real prerequisite for a national team role. And yes, à la NFL/NCAA, there's even more the FA could be doing at the grass roots, non-league and lower league level (even with their relatively new programs, bursaries, etc., and not just with regard to BME candidates, as English managers in general are seeing the market get taken up more and more by managers trained overseas). Football has its own problems with racism and outdated conventional wisdom, even if they're on different scales than the USA. It's difficult to come up with solutions from an armchair (especially one from a few thousand miles away) because the path to a top club managerial role in England gets more difficult by the day. This is a quick and easy policy to implement with very little in the way of negative effects worse than a few easily-offended white guys getting mad online. Even if it doesn't produce magical effects, there's a high upside with this rule and very little to lose, so why not?

[Guest MattP]

Paul Ince's dry cleaner though, imagine his face tonight, he'll be having turkey again next christmas.

[GaelicFox]

4 hours ago, Finnegan said:

Is there a single person in the normal world that thinks the Rooney rule is a good idea? I don't understand why clueless organisations in a desperate bid to be "inclusive" come back to this absolute rubbish. 

 

I think the sentiment is great, I think anyone that wants to promote equality for its own sake largely has their heart in the right place. 

 

Bit when has tokenism ever been a positive thing? Find me a self respecting BME worker that would want to be interviewed or hired exclusively because of their race, culture, gender, religion etc. 

 

In fact, find me any self respecting human being that wouldn't want to be employed purely on merit. 

If there's a lack of black coaches in the game, I'm all for addressing the balance, I'm all for encouraging minority groups to get in to coaching, I'm all for promoting employers to consider minority candidates but you make it compulsory and you instantly start taking steps backwards. 

 

TLDR: the FA are ****ing retarded, out of touch and out of ideas. 

Christ we actually agree on something 

 

i need to lie down in a darkened room 

 

[Steve_Walsh5]

1 hour ago, Samilktray said:

The Rooney rule doesn't get them a job you Berk 

No but their skin colour will get them an interview regardless of whether they are a good candidate or not. 

[Super_horns]

So Chris Houghton will get interviewed?

 

Cannot see many other BAME being even considered for the England job!

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

So Chris Houghton will get interviewed?

 

Cannot see many other BAME being even considered for the England job!

Imagine if he turns the interview down saying he's happy at Brighton. What do the FA do then?

 

Nice to see again Terry Connor, we realise your caretaker effort at Wolves wasn't the best but honestly you've got a chance of the England job as you are here. Now errrrrrr.......so errrr, weather nice?

[Samilktray]

31 minutes ago, Steve_Walsh5 said:

No but their skin colour will get them an interview regardless of whether they are a good candidate or not. 

I don't agree with the it but people at least need to know what the Rooney rule actually means

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Steve_Walsh5 said:

No but their skin colour will get them an interview regardless of whether they are a good candidate or not. 

In the BBC Sport article it says that the BAME candidate will need to show they meet the relevant criteria for the job.

[Great Boos Up]

...actually at the time in regards to the England manager; if Woy was sacked and replaced by a elderly black disabled woman with Tourette's I'd have been delighted.

[Wymsey]

10 minutes ago, Great Boos Up said:

...actually at the time in regards to the England manager; if Woy was sacked and replaced by a elderly black disabled woman with Tourette's I'd have been delighted.

And her wearing a male white suit..

[Super_horns]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Imagine if he turns the interview down saying he's happy at Brighton. What do the FA do then?

 

 

Ofcourse he is Irish so might prefer holding out for that job !

 

Ok English born it seems with an Irish parent (more than most Ireland players had at that time!!) but still going to feel more connected to them .

 

Edited 9 January 2018 by Super_horns

[fuchsntf]

I want, the Rooney rule used for....Pardew, Allerdyce, Pullis, O'niel  always getting 1st mention, for

next mid-table-clubs applications. Even if they get sacked themselves...Now we have Hughes to add to

the merry go round...

[Foxxed]

Orchestras changes how they interview people a while back. They started listening to the performances from behind screen. One of the results was that a 5"1 woman was picked as the best bassoonist. Previously, most discounted her because "surely a woman that size could not create a sound that big".

 

The same is true of interviewers for most positions. No matter how inclusive you think you are you still make assumptions based on nationality, gender, religion and race. Some positive assumptions and some negative.  I'm not sure if the Rooney Rule will help lessen this. I'm unsure if any BME person would appreciate this, although I'm hardly an expert.

 

As a thought experiment, imagine you lived in Nigeria. And you're white. And imagine you experienced racism because of your skin colour. Now you're also qualified for a job. What would feel like if you knew you, or someone with your skin colour, were guaranteed a job interview? What would you feel like if you got the job? It's a serious question. I'm still not completely sure what I think.

[murphy]

5 hours ago, UPinCarolina said:

It is absurd that with so many black players, there are so few managers or coaches.

The "Rooney Rule" though - it's just degrading. I would much rather see an effort to identify and encourage promising candidates of color.

I think that if we look at the recent history of black footballers in the UK it is only relatively recently, ie the premier league era, that we have seen such a large representation.  Before then, there was actually comparatively few.  The point I'm trying to make is that coincidentally the premier league era has brought untold riches to players that weren't available before and at the same time a very large uplift in the number of black players.  With the money flying around these days retired players don't have to run a pub or go into management anymore, they are bazzillionaires.  

 

Could it be that the modern ex-premier league player doesn't want to go into management being super loaded?  Therefore it only appears to be a disparity between the amount of black players and black managers.  Or, perhaps in a few years time there will be a surge in black managers as there has been in black players when this generation retires.

 

I dunno, I'm rambling but I just can't believe it is racism.  Football is the ultimate meritocracy.  I can't believe any club would prefer a lesser white payer over a better black one, that would be ridiculous and the same would go for managers.

[Carl the Llama]

6 hours ago, SheppyFox said:

I don’t understand, I don’t see colour and neither should anybody else. An interview for any job in any field should be conducted to determine whether the candidate is good enough for the job, and shouldn’t be pre determined by forced ethnic quotas.

 

As you say, nobody is going to want to think “I only got this job because I’m white, black or any other ethinicity” you’d want to think “I got the job because I’m the best at the job”.

What do you do at traffic lights?

[Bert]

You're either qualified and good enough for the job or you're not. 

[Stinkenzo]

Might already have been mentioned but the way I see it is the Sol Campbell's of this world that think chairmen are racist... how many black players play in the PL? How many play under these chairmen? Owners just want the best for their club, particularly high up in this country with the money flying about, therefore they aren't going to turn their nose up at the best candidate who also happens to be black.

[bovril]

4 hours ago, Corky said:

In the BBC Sport article it says that the BAME candidate will need to show they meet the relevant criteria for the job.

You mean you've actually read the article? Hmmm sneaky. 

[ozleicester]

See signature... there is a difference between equality and fairness/justice

[ScouseFox]

5 hours ago, Corky said:

In the BBC Sport article it says that the BAME candidate will need to show they meet the relevant criteria for the job.

so we’re still going to have a white england manager. who the fu ck cares. what a non story. an absolute piss take from all corners that this is basically the FA making a statement saying “we would employ a black manager if there was a good one”. who the fu ck needed to be told that?!