2018/19 U23s, Development, U19s etc

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Would be interested to know the source and context for that quote Foxy-Lady. Any chance you could supply it?

I'd say it's from someone who doesn't like beaglehole. 

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

How did Beaglehole get so entrenched in the club and popular with the owners? Is he personable? Cheap?

One of Rudkins jobs for the boys brigade. 

[Stadt]

Can anybody say convincingly that Beaglehole has done a good or bad job? I know which side of the fence I sit considering our academy's best players over the past 10 years have mostly been physical and athletic, as well as having a very high average age and the centrebacks as top scorers. 

 

[knitro]

I think it's hard to separate the success of the U23s and Beaglehole's talent with the fact that were quite parsimonious about loaning - we have guys playing in that league at ages where they're usually out on loans or out of the academy entirely. At younger ages a year can make a huge difference and if the majority of our team is a few years older on average than the teams they face, it could be a strong enough factor to render the others ones irrelevant. 

 

Let's assume the strategy is to keep our players together because there's intangible and tangible squad gains from keeping them together which offset individual gains more loans would develop - I think this is a valid strategy and probably worth exploring in depth and comparing to the way other clubs develop players. Might be enlightening. 

[Foxy-Lady]

14 hours ago, FIF said:

I'd say it's from someone who doesn't like beaglehole. 

You may be right.....but this information is not based on my subjective opinion....Its just a piece of information that im passing on to offer a little perspective and insight.  Entirely up to you whether you wish to believe it my friend...?!?

 

[Foxy-Lady]

14 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Any news on Ndukwu's return? 

Not heard anything recently.  Originally it was January return so might still be on the cards.

[foxes21]

2 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Not heard anything recently.  Originally it was January return so might still be on the cards.

Do you think he could break into the first team this season now Diabate’s gone?

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, foxes21 said:

Do you think he could break into the first team this season now Diabate’s gone?

100% yes, mainly because if we don't bring Barnes back or sign another winger then he is 4th choice by default.

[Foxy-Lady]

14 hours ago, l444ry said:

Would be interested to know the source and context for that quote Foxy-Lady. Any chance you could supply it?

I would love to as it would settle any debate over the accuracy of sources and information I sometimes offer......but if I disclose my sources, I would almost certainly LOSE my sources which I really don't want to do as they offer a very different and interesting "inside" perspective to the blue-tinted social media perspective we are constantly fed by the club itself....and which is the only other source of information.

[Foxy-Lady]

2 minutes ago, foxes21 said:

Do you think he could break into the first team this season now Diabate’s gone?

I think he is a much better all-round player than Diabete so if it was a straight choice between those two the I definitely would give him a chance

 

However, im not sure if he would hold a place in our first team at present (or any other PL team) as his work rate and off-the ball attitude are questionable..... but his immense natural talent is beyond dispute.

[les-tah]

What is actually up with Ndukwu ? is he injury prone or just an unlucky 1 off injury? 

Edited 11 January 2019 by les-tah

[Babylon]

8 hours ago, Stadt said:

Can anybody say convincingly that Beaglehole has done a good or bad job? I know which side of the fence I sit considering our academy's best players over the past 10 years have mostly been physical and athletic, as well as having a very high average age and the centrebacks as top scorers. 

 

Hard to tell with us often having a youth team far older than everyone else. But we are likely to have Hamza, Chilwell and Barnes all competing for starting spots or on the bench next season (or this week). That's not a bad return at all.

[foxes21]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

100% yes, mainly because if we don't bring Barnes back or sign another winger then he is 4th choice by default.

 

Would love to to see him on the bench. Realistically though he’s probably going to need to regain his form / match fitness. The u23 league finishes in April so i think a realistic target for Ndukwu would be to break into the first team late on in the season like Choudhury last year? 

 

4 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I think he is a much better all-round player than Diabete so if it was a straight choice between those two the I definitely would give him a chance

 

However, im not sure if he would hold a place in our first team at present (or any other PL team) as his work rate and off-the ball attitude are questionable..... but his immense natural talent is beyond dispute.

 

In my opinion I thought he improved those aspects of his game. After his pre season with the first team he came back looking like a new player.. It could have been the u23s opposition which skewed my perspective, but he looked like the complete package before his injury. 

[los dedos]

15 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Not bad for a player who was recently told by Beaglehole that he "wasn't good enough to play CB as he couldn't head the ball properly"....and has then subsequently been elevated to the Romanian full national squad and been outstanding at CB for LCFC U23s.

 

Certainly knows his stuff that Beaglehole bloke...! 

 

Not a dig but why is Beaglehole playing him at CB  if he thinks he's not good enough ?

Edited 11 January 2019 by los dedos

[lcfcell]

I’m not sure whether he’ll end up like Chilwell & Choudhury But i’d like to see how Dewsbury-Hall would get on in the first team, every time I watch the u23s which has been a lot recently he always impresses, wasn’t he involved in the first team towards the end of last season? Seem to remember him being with the squad at Burnley anyway I just feel he’s a lot different to any midfielder we currently have 

[Gillies Apprentice]

22 minutes ago, lcfcell said:

I’m not sure whether he’ll end up like Chilwell & Choudhury But i’d like to see how Dewsbury-Hall would get on in the first team, every time I watch the u23s which has been a lot recently he always impresses, wasn’t he involved in the first team towards the end of last season? Seem to remember him being with the squad at Burnley anyway I just feel he’s a lot different to any midfielder we currently have 

I agree completely -he’s got a lovely left foot ,can pick a pass and rarely concedes possession .I fully expect we’ll see him in the first team before the end of the season .

[rachhere]

27 minutes ago, lcfcell said:

I’m not sure whether he’ll end up like Chilwell & Choudhury But i’d like to see how Dewsbury-Hall would get on in the first team, every time I watch the u23s which has been a lot recently he always impresses, wasn’t he involved in the first team towards the end of last season? Seem to remember him being with the squad at Burnley anyway I just feel he’s a lot different to any midfielder we currently have 

He's great. I can't remember seeing him in the squad, but that's probably my bad memory, and either way he absolutely should have been.

[Stadt]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

Hard to tell with us often having a youth team far older than everyone else. But we are likely to have Hamza, Chilwell and Barnes all competing for starting spots or on the bench next season (or this week). That's not a bad return at all.

It’s not a bad return and obviously I can only go with my instincts but I think those are the sort of players that would come through regardless of the coaching. I spend s lot of time reading about coaching and development and it just doesn’t strike me that we have a good system in place, especially if what I’ve heard from others is true.

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, Stadt said:

It’s not a bad return and obviously I can only go with my instincts but I think those are the sort of players that would come through regardless of the coaching. I spend s lot of time reading about coaching and development and it just doesn’t strike me that we have a good system in place, especially if what I’ve heard from others is true.

How do we judge it then?

[Stadt]

Just now, Babylon said:

How do we judge it then?

It’s very difficult to judge but simply looking at the number of academy players in and around the first team is a bit simplistic. 

[Ric Flair]

Beaglehole has very little time for players who aren't strong enough and to be honest, it sorts the wheat from the chaff. We have produced a fair few first team players in the last few years and we have to be thankful for that. Not so sure he is the man to take us forward when we move in to our world class training complex. Our intentions appear to be that we wan to get ahead of our rivals by having the best facilities, but you also need the best coaches as well.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, lcfcell said:

I’m not sure whether he’ll end up like Chilwell & Choudhury But i’d like to see how Dewsbury-Hall would get on in the first team, every time I watch the u23s which has been a lot recently he always impresses, wasn’t he involved in the first team towards the end of last season? Seem to remember him being with the squad at Burnley anyway I just feel he’s a lot different to any midfielder we currently have 

 

There's a lot to like about Dewsbury-Hall but there is no way that he is ready to play in the prem. He's lightweight and would simply disappear.

 

He really needs to go out on loan next season to the prem. I said last season that Barnes wasn't ready for the prem, he would've just gone missing in games and lost confidence. hopefully this spell with WBA will mean that he is much more prepared for real football. I think Dewsbury Hall is very similar in that respect.

 

However I really do think one or two of our CBs could be okay in the prem. It surprised me when we bought in two new, young players during the summer for the CB position.

 

As for Beaglehole, he gets a lot of "hate" on this forum but as people have said we have a fair few players who are not only ready to play professional football but several who coul be playing for us in the Prem. He has to get some credit for that. In the end THAT is the bottom line for success with the U23 team. Lots won't make it, it's the ones that do who matter. some of the people who dislike Beaglehole may be just too close to the setup and therefore don't see the wood for the trees. Maybe some of their "friends" just aren't making it.

 

Having said that I know nothing about Beaglehole and I greatly appreciate all of the information the likes of Foxy-lady bring to us. This is by no means a dig at you. I thank you very much for all the info you bring - Beaglehole may well be a complete ass and in the way of making us even better. 

[Foxy-Lady]

1 hour ago, FIF said:

 

There's a lot to like about Dewsbury-Hall but there is no way that he is ready to play in the prem. He's lightweight and would simply disappear.

 

He really needs to go out on loan next season to the prem. I said last season that Barnes wasn't ready for the prem, he would've just gone missing in games and lost confidence. hopefully this spell with WBA will mean that he is much more prepared for real football. I think Dewsbury Hall is very similar in that respect.

 

However I really do think one or two of our CBs could be okay in the prem. It surprised me when we bought in two new, young players during the summer for the CB position.

 

As for Beaglehole, he gets a lot of "hate" on this forum but as people have said we have a fair few players who are not only ready to play professional football but several who coul be playing for us in the Prem. He has to get some credit for that. In the end THAT is the bottom line for success with the U23 team. Lots won't make it, it's the ones that do who matter. some of the people who dislike Beaglehole may be just too close to the setup and therefore don't see the wood for the trees. Maybe some of their "friends" just aren't making it.

 

Having said that I know nothing about Beaglehole and I greatly appreciate all of the information the likes of Foxy-lady bring to us. This is by no means a dig at you. I thank you very much for all the info you bring - Beaglehole may well be a complete ass and in the way of making us even better. 

Good points FIF, and well balanced views as always!

 

One of the things that I have repeatedly heard and that has always concerned me about Academies is that fact that parents with children in the Academy system are always reluctant to criticise as it may affect their childs progress and prospects.....and the views of parents whose children are later released are immediately discredited as being "bitter and twisted".  So, in essence, the system is immune to any kind of criticism or objective observation on the basis that anyone who raises any points of concern is immediately under threat or discredited.  Perfect scenario for those in charge really...

 

No surprise really that people are reluctant to voice an opinion or try and voice factual observations......unless of course they have no vested interest other than subjectively passing on information which I try to do.

 

With regards Begalehole, he rarely produces anything other than defenders through his system as he is reliant on strength and physicality as opposed to technical coaching ability (high % of our U23 goals come from CBs scoring from set-piece play).

The more technical players who do make it through our system would probably have made it through any Academy system irrespective of Beaglehole as they are naturally gifted from a very early age and its just a case of nurturing their ability (ie Barnes, Ndukwu) OR, more recently,  have been very professionally scouted and recruited from other lower league Academies (ie Shade, Thomas, Wright)

Im not sure I would be giving Beaglehole any credit for the development of Barnes and Ndukwu and it was interesting to note that Chilwell cited the U16s coaches as the biggest influence on his Academy development at LCFC in a recent press article. Deduce from that what you will...?!? 

[Dan]

Might be putting two and two together and getting five here, but wasn't Idiakez really highly thought of at the club, and surely given the timeframe the likes of Barnes, Choudhury and Chilwell would've all played under him, right?

[Foxxed]

On 11/01/2019 at 02:58, knitro said:

I think it's hard to separate the success of the U23s and Beaglehole's talent with the fact that were quite parsimonious about loaning - we have guys playing in that league at ages where they're usually out on loans or out of the academy entirely. At younger ages a year can make a huge difference and if the majority of our team is a few years older on average than the teams they face, it could be a strong enough factor to render the others ones irrelevant. 

 

Let's assume the strategy is to keep our players together because there's intangible and tangible squad gains from keeping them together which offset individual gains more loans would develop - I think this is a valid strategy and probably worth exploring in depth and comparing to the way other clubs develop players. Might be enlightening. 

Spurs premote their youth players to the first team rather than loan them out. It's working well for them.