What to do about the defense?

[TJB-fox]

4 hours ago, l444ry said:

This seems to be  becoming a standard myths that become "fact" if repeated enough. The first ten yards are in the head if you can read the game. Most strikers at top level these days are quick or they wouldn't be playing. Defending on the halfway line with full backs pushing on would even catch Des Walker and Rio Ferdinand found wanting. .   

Good post. Annoys me this whole pace obsession. The reason Wes and Maguire have looked so shakey is because of their shit positioning and organisation, as well as a lack of a disciplined defensive midfielder prepared to drop in and play as an extra defender when both our fullbacks have pushed, not due to their lack of pace. Obviously their job was helped massively by the wondrous Ngolo Kante and a very different style of play to what Puel is trying to achieve but just look at our title winning year. Wes and Huth, hardly a pacey pairing. Were  organised and settled and didn’t let anything past em.

[murphy]

46 minutes ago, TJB-fox said:

Good post. Annoys me this whole pace obsession. The reason Wes and Maguire have looked so shakey is because of their shit positioning and organisation, as well as a lack of a disciplined defensive midfielder prepared to drop in and play as an extra defender when both our fullbacks have pushed, not due to their lack of pace. Obviously their job was helped massively by the wondrous Ngolo Kante and a very different style of play to what Puel is trying to achieve but just look at our title winning year. Wes and Huth, hardly a pacey pairing. Were  organised and settled and didn’t let anything past em.

I don't think it is positioning that let Wes and harry down, it was the tactics that left them totally exposed.  I feel for them a little bit as they had no chance really.

[Dan]

The lack of pace is obviously going to be a problem when you leave them that high up the pitch. Look at the goals.

[kingfox]

With the players we have I feel we are best suited to a 3-5-2 formation, if we're going to stick with 4-4-2 though then it's Soyuncu or bust unless we change the RB situation. The right side of defence is the problem, if you're going to persist with Ricardo at RB then you can't play Morgan or Evans because they are far too slow, as we saw against Wolves, Ricardo constantly left Evans exposed, Evans gets the ball knocked past him and Wolves went on to create numerous goalscoring opportunities. Morgan for me is a better option than Evans, he has more pace for starters but still, he's not good enough anymore to cope in one on one situations when he's left exposed. If you're going to persist with Morgan or play Evans in a back four, then Ricardo has to be pushed further forward as the winger and Amartey or Simmo have to come in as the RB.

 

As for the left-side right now I see no problem with it, Chilwell has showed improvements defensively and offensively. Maguire had his worst game for us against Bournemouth, we know full well he isn't going to play like that week in week out.

 

The problem lies with the right side of defence, later today I hope to see a combination of Ricardo - Soyuncu or Amartey/Simmo - Evans/Soyuncu with Ricardo on the wing.

Edited 22 September 2018 by kingfox

[Hanan96]

5 hours ago, kingfox said:

With the players we have I feel we are best suited to a 3-5-2 formation, if we're going to stick with 4-4-2 though then it's Soyuncu or bust unless we change the RB situation. The right side of defence is the problem, if you're going to persist with Ricardo at RB then you can't play Morgan or Evans because they are far too slow, as we saw against Wolves, Ricardo constantly left Evans exposed, Evans gets the ball knocked past him and Wolves went on to create numerous goalscoring opportunities. Morgan for me is a better option than Evans, he has more pace for starters but still, he's not good enough anymore to cope in one on one situations when he's left exposed. If you're going to persist with Morgan or play Evans in a back four, then Ricardo has to be pushed further forward as the winger and Amartey or Simmo have to come in as the RB.

 

As for the left-side right now I see no problem with it, Chilwell has showed improvements defensively and offensively. Maguire had his worst game for us against Bournemouth, we know full well he isn't going to play like that week in week out.

 

The problem lies with the right side of defence, later today I hope to see a combination of Ricardo - Soyuncu or Amartey/Simmo - Evans/Soyuncu with Ricardo on the wing.

If chilwell are improve defensively, why don't just put maguire on the right cb? 

[ARM1968]

Nail em up I say, nail em up 

[Nick]

On 18/09/2018 at 11:14, Pete from the USA said:

Ian Wright believes he could still score against Leicester City defense

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/arsenal-ian-wright-leicester-city-2014593

 

The dark side of Puel's exciting attacking system was fully exposed at Bournemouth. If we don't figure out how to defend we're done for. How do we fix this?

 

Looking for suggestions other than "sack the manager." Lineup changes, strategy changes, new recruits, whatnot. 

Well Pete, I think we should start by getting the basics right and learning to spell it correctly and improvement will follow on from there.

[l444ry]

7 hours ago, murphy said:

I don't think it is positioning that let Wes and harry down, it was the tactics that left them totally exposed.  I feel for them a little bit as they had no chance really.

Matt Elliott, Steve Walsh and Gerry Taggart weren't blessed with the speed of greyhounds but I don't recall them getting exposed behind too often. Good positioning and Martin O'Neill tactics saw to that.

[TJB-fox]

8 hours ago, murphy said:

I don't think it is positioning that let Wes and harry down, it was the tactics that left them totally exposed.  I feel for them a little bit as they had no chance really.

Sorry yeah I did mean that as well. I did touch on the fact our fullbacks are playing extremely high and we don’t have a central midfielder prepared to drop deep enough to cover as a fullback when the balls lost.

[murphy]

41 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Matt Elliott, Steve Walsh and Gerry Taggart weren't blessed with the speed of greyhounds but I don't recall them getting exposed behind too often. Good positioning and Martin O'Neill tactics saw to that.

 

I never mentioned pace.

 

I was just making the point that it was the tactical high line and inadequate cover for the wing backs that left them on a hiding to nothing, rather than individual poor positional play IMO.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

19 hours ago, Babylon said:

According to who? The owners haven't been speaking like that this summer, I'm sure they are well aware that we've totally screwed the pooch when it came to progression with multiple transfer window failures. Not the current managers fault who has been picking up the pieces of that.

 

If people actually think we're ever going to be anything other than a midtable team for foreseeable future then they are kidding themselves I'm afraid. We don't invest enough, and there are bigger teams than us floating about who you'd expect to take up the first few positions outside the top 6.

 

8th - 12th on a consistent basis is about the best a club like Leicester can expect. It's all very well aspiring for more, we all do. But the reality of it is that the whole club needs to make the step up (which we're trying to do), before we can ever expect anything above that to be a regular thing.

According to the owners.

 

Im sure you know this, and you are in arguing for arguments sake mode Mr B

Edited 22 September 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[NotTheMarketLeader]

19 hours ago, Babylon said:

The person you quoted said nothing about it being youth team players? He said bringing players in with room to grow than just buying players at their peak. Even if we're just going to discuss players we already had, he's giving Gray and Chilwell game time to improve that they weren't given before. You can't deny Chilwell looks to be improving. In fact for me he's looked our best defender so far this season.

You are wrong in that most people when the term ‘bringing youth through’ mean interms of OUR youth players. Again you are arguing for the sake of it I think as I don’t believe you are stupid. 

 

Where did I say I disagreed with signing young players?

 

I happen to believe it’s the way to go; Maddison looks a great signing, but I do not believe that this manager is getting the best out of this squad or will ever do so.

 

For Chilwell to be our best defender this season, says it all. He is not very good, and it just emphasises what a mess Puel is making of things at the back. We are shocking in that area and for you to quote stats in another post to argue that things are ok is frankly ridiculous.

 

 

Edited 22 September 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[steveb]

We were exposed by a really quick forward in the last game - as they say, sh=t happens

The real problem is that we can't defend free kicks and corners and with the supposed skill - Maguire and experience Morgan  there should be no excuses

 

Much hard work on the training ground required, if anything they are worse than last year

 

Also tactics are wrong, neither zonal marking or 4 at the back work for these players, Puel has to change tack until the players perfect what he wants in training, no point persisting if they can't do it

 

Edited 22 September 2018 by steveb

[l444ry]

32 minutes ago, murphy said:

 

I never mentioned pace.

 

I was just making the point that it was the tactical high line and inadequate cover for the wing backs that left them on a hiding to nothing, rather than individual poor positional play IMO.

Sorry about that. Your post was sandwiched between posts discussing pace so didn't realise. The point is still valid though. 

[Dr The Singh]

Pray

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

According to the owners.

 

Im sure you know this, and you are in arguing for arguments sake mode Mr B

No, I don't remember them saying his remit that season was Europe when he came in after we sacked our manager for getting is in the bottom three. Happy for you to post a link to when they said that though. What you aspire to and what your remit is are two very different things.

[Babylon]

59 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

You are wrong in that most people when the term ‘bringing youth through’ mean interms of OUR youth players. Again you are arguing for the sake of it I think as I don’t believe you are stupid. 

 

That might be what "most people" say, that that wasn't what the person you quoted said. I'm not arguing for the sake of it, you misconstrued what someone said. I'm pointing that out.

 

59 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Where did I say I disagreed with signing young players?

Where did I say you did?

 

59 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

For Chilwell to be our best defender this season, says it all. He is not very good, and it just emphasises what a mess Puel is making of things at the back. We are shocking in that area and for you to quote stats in another post to argue that things are ok is frankly ridiculous.

I'm sorry, but if you can't even admit there has been a fairly significant improvement in Chilwell then it's pointless in even having a discussion. He's made the England squad and rightfully so FFS.

 

I said things were pretty average and they are, I've never said there aren't issues. But things are nowhere near as bad as you are making out and that's what the stats show. You're the one who is going to the extremes with your critisism, not me. That's what's ridiculous, not using facts.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

That might be what "most people" say, that that wasn't what the person you quoted said. I'm not arguing for the sake of it, you misconstrued what someone said. I'm pointing that out.

 

Where did I say you did?

 

I'm sorry, but if you can't even admit there has been a fairly significant improvement in Chilwell then it's pointless in even having a discussion. He's made the England squad and rightfully so FFS.

 

I said things were pretty average and they are, I've never said there aren't issues. But things are nowhere near as bad as you are making out and that's what the stats show. You're the one who is going to the extremes with your critisism, not me. That's what's ridiculous, not using facts.

Disagree.

 

Stats:

I saw some yesterday (?) showing 

that almost a year into his tenure Puel’s pts per game average are less than Shakey, who was shown the door. 

 

An unacceptable managerial performance I would suggest.

 

[Shane]

What to do about the defence?

 

Play Amartey

 

And

 

Play players out of position

 

 

[cropstonfox]

On 20/09/2018 at 21:39, cropstonfox said:

"rest" Gray.

Hallelujah!!!

[Shane]

2 hours ago, Shane said:

What to do about the defence?

 

Play Amartey

 

And

 

Play players out of position

 

 

Edit:

 

Amartey was our best defender today

[Pete from the USA]

8 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

Well Pete, I think we should start by getting the basics right and learning to spell it correctly and improvement will follow on from there.

I must apologize for my spelling. 

[Cincinnati Fox]

352

[Foxxed]

I hope Evans stays and builds a partnership with Maguire. Prolonging the Morgan Maguire partnership doesn't seem so forward thinking.

[RumbleFox]

Whilst I agree that we need to settle on a back four and whomever that is need a little time I cannot help but this we are creating issues that may not be there?  In terms of actual goals conceded we are 9th in the league.  In terms of likely goal scoring chances faced (expected goals against) we are 5th which means we have actually conceded more goals than our general play merits.  Not saying we are perfect but we aint as bad as some claim.  X