That “Handball” last night

[coolhandfox]

Hand ball, referee bottled it as he would have to give a red card. 

Edited 23 October 2018 by coolhandfox

[ThaiFox]

2 hours ago, Markyblue said:

It was a penalty, ref looking straight at it and bottled it. 

100% right.

 

Guarantee the ref would have given a penalty if the same had happened to Armarty in our box. I thought he was incompetent all match, so many really dirty fouls by Arsenal players went unpunished. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

I agree it wasn't a penalty, people saying that isn't a natural position have probably never played a game in their lives. It's not a "natural" position to jump like a sardine to win the ball

[Captain...]

1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I agree it wasn't a penalty, people saying that isn't a natural position have probably never played a game in their lives. It's not a "natural" position to jump like a sardine to win the ball

Thanks, might be in the minority but at least I’m not alone. 

[AKCJ]

15 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I agree it wasn't a penalty, people saying that isn't a natural position have probably never played a game in their lives. It's not a "natural" position to jump like a sardine to win the ball

It's not natural to have your hands straight up in the air either.

 

He's using his arms to gain more upward momentum than Ndidi and in doing so the ball has struck his arm.

 

If the ball had hit Ndidi's arm then it would have 100000000% been given as a freekick to Arsenal so what's the difference?

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

It's not natural to have your hands straight up in the air either.

 

He's using his arms to gain more upward momentum than Ndidi and in doing so the ball has struck his arm.

 

If the ball had hit Ndidi's arm then it would have 100000000% been given as a freekick to Arsenal so what's the difference?

Ndidi pushes his arm into the ball, it's not a deliberate handball. Do you believe Ndidi is also in an unnatural position as well then? because they're effectively both going for the ball the same way

[Gerard]

3 hours ago, Captain... said:

I’ve seen so many people moaning about us not getting a penalty. Watch it back Holding jumps for the ball and Wilf heads his hand into the ball it’s not a penalty. You can’t headbutt someone’s arm onto the ball and claim a penalty. I saw it on my stream and the pundits on my American stream said the same thing, no penalty. No idea what the sky pundits said. Can’t find a decent video of it but please post one to prove me wrong.

 

Don’t get me wrong I wish he’d given it, but you can’t blame the ref.

 

The Vardy header was looped up for what is a relative age. He had all the time in the world to get his hand away from above his head. Penalty all day long.

[AKCJ]

6 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Ndidi pushes his arm into the ball, it's not a deliberate handball. Do you believe Ndidi is also in an unnatural position as well then? because they're effectively both going for the ball the same way

Absolutely, if the ball had hit Ndidi's arm then it would (should) be a freekick.

 

Raising your arms like that is a risk. Holding is trying to gain as much upward momentum as possible to win the header and in doing so the ball has struck his arm.

 

You're being deliberately argumentative, obtuse and - to put it blunt - thick if you don't think that's a handball.

Edited 23 October 2018 by AKCJ

[ge12]

It is definitely a penalty, it's not intentional but it is clumsy, I can only assume that the referee has seen the slight coming together between Holding and Wilf and assumed that is what has caused it and therefore decided it is ball to hand.

 

I don't think it's a second yellow though as I don't think it wasn't deliberate and also that the contact with Wilf has somewhat contributed to it happening.

[Captain...]

I’m not convincing anyone here so I’ll just say you can use your arms to jump, Wilf’s arm is just as high everyone uses their arms for leverage and protection.

 

These are the facts as I saw them.

 

Holding and Wilf both use their arms to jump for the ball, Wilf puts one hand on Holding while jumping.

 

The next thing that happens is as Holding is jumping he brings both his arms down for extra propulsion. 

 

Whilst bringing his right arm arm down it collided with Ndidi’s head which was coming up. 

 

His arm ricochets off Ndidis head and strikes the ball. 

 

He doesn’t move his hand to the ball so there is no intent, there is also no need as it looked like he would have won the header. 

[Captain...]

6 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

The Vardy header was looped up for what is a relative age. He had all the time in the world to get his hand away from above his head. Penalty all day long.

He couldn’t get his hand away from his head because Wilf collided with his arm pushing it towards the ball.

[AKCJ]

2 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I’m not convincing anyone here so I’ll just say you can use your arms to jump, Wilf’s arm is just as high everyone uses their arms for leverage and protection.

 

These are the facts as I saw them.

 

Holding and Wilf both use their arms to jump for the ball, Wilf puts one hand on Holding while jumping.

 

The next thing that happens is as Holding is jumping he brings both his arms down for extra propulsion. 

 

Whilst bringing his right arm arm down it collided with Ndidi’s head which was coming up. 

 

His arm ricochets off Ndidis head and strikes the ball. 

 

He doesn’t move his hand to the ball so there is no intent, there is also no need as it looked like he would have won the header. 

Nobody is saying that you can't use your arms to help you jump.

 

Just that if you're doing so and your hands are in the air then you can have no arguments about having a foul awarded against you.

 

He had plenty of time to move his hands out of the way, he just didn't want to lose out on the header.

 

Can't believe this is even being discussed. It's just a bread and butter handball. So blatantly obvious.

[The Horse's Mouth]

2 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Absolutely, if the ball had hit Ndidi's arm then it would (should) be a freekick.

 

Raising your arms like that is a risk. Holding is trying to gain as much upward momentum as possible to win the header and in doing so the ball has struck his arm.

 

You're being deliberately argumentative, obtuse and - to put it blunt - thick if you don't think that's a handball.

I'm not being deliberately argumentative at all, I'm voicing and opinion you spack, I don't understand how you can say that both players are not in a natural position, jumping up like an ironing board is not how you win a header. At the end of the day, the ball wouldn't have struck holdings arm had his arm not made contact with Ndidi, therefore even ignoring the positioning of both players it can't really be given has handball. 

[AKCJ]

2 minutes ago, Captain... said:

He couldn’t get his hand away from his head because Wilf collided with his arm pushing it towards the ball.

His arm hits Wilf as much as Wilf hits his arm.

 

Just a laughable excuse to find a reason to go against the grain. If you can't see that that's a handball then you need to book an appointment with the optician.

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I'm not being deliberately argumentative at all, I'm voicing and opinion you spack, I don't understand how you can say that both players are not in a natural position, jumping up like an ironing board is not how you win a header. At the end of the day, the ball wouldn't have struck holdings arm had his arm not made contact with Ndidi, therefore even ignoring the positioning of both players it can't really be given has handball. 

Their hands are not in a natural position to win a header. No sane coach tells kids to head the ball with both hands raised above your head.

 

Both players are jostling with each other and trying to use their arms for as much upward momentum as possible. Holding then handles the ball as it drops. Penalty all day long.

 

If that was given against us i'd have zero complaints.

[jayfox26]

3 hours ago, Arkie Bennett said:

That Morgan incident I can just about accept that the ref gave what he thought he saw but was hugely mistaken. Last night's, however, was blatant handball in full view of the referee. Even allowing for Wilf and Holding colliding as they jumped, but Holding's arm was always in an unnatural position that was bound to interfere with the flight of the ball. A nailed on penalty, the question has to be why it wasn't given.

Totally agree. One of three things occurred in my opinion...

 

1. He didnt see the handball (extremely unlikely as hes stood 5 yards away right in front of the incident with a clear view).

 

2. He didn't deem it to be handball which is bizarre and unbelievably poor officiating.

 

3. He did see the handball and just bottled it as he knew he'd booked holding 5 mins earlier and he'd have to send him off in front of the home Emirates Crowd. 

 

I'm pretty confident it's number 3 but whichever it was, it was terrible refereeing that should not be accepted at this level of football. I can accept mistakes from refs but i don't believe this was a mistake I feel he made the decision not to give a penalty as it was a big call against a "big club" in their home ground and he just bottled it! 

 

Don't like to complain too much about refereeing decisions as all clubs (outside the top 6) have decisions go against them but i feel weve been shafted this season. Morgan's 2 red cards, the pen against Bournemouth and that last night just to mention a few big game changing decisions. 

[whoareyaaa]

7 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

Totally agree. One of three things occurred in my opinion...

 

1. He didnt see the handball (extremely unlikely as hes stood 5 yards away right in front of the incident with a clear view).

 

2. He didn't deem it to be handball which is bizarre and unbelievably poor officiating.

 

3. He did see the handball and just bottled it as he knew he'd booked holding 5 mins earlier and he'd have to send him off in front of the home Emirates Crowd. 

 

I'm pretty confident it's number 3 but whichever it was, it was terrible refereeing that should not be accepted at this level of football. I can accept mistakes from refs but i don't believe this was a mistake I feel he made the decision not to give a penalty as it was a big call against a "big club" in their home ground and he just bottled it! 

 

Don't like to complain too much about refereeing decisions as all clubs (outside the top 6) have decisions go against them but i feel weve been shafted this season. Morgan's 2 red cards, the pen against Bournemouth and that last night just to mention a few big game changing decisions. 

100% number 3

[Gerard]

21 minutes ago, Captain... said:

He couldn’t get his hand away from his head because Wilf collided with his arm pushing it towards the ball.

 

His hand was already above his head before the contact.

 

Don't complain about getting fleas if you lie down with dogs. 

[TheUltimateWinner]

Just now, whoareyaaa said:

100% number 3

Agree, he didn't even wave it away (which you would think he would do if he'd adjudge it not a foul), he simply froze when realising he'd have to send Holding off. 

[Farrington fox]

1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

 

As daft comments go that would take some beating ...

The outcome in so much as an Arsenal victory! 

Edited 23 October 2018 by Farrington fox

[Farrington fox]

2 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

We don't know if it would have changed the outcome, but playing vs 10 men and having the chance to score early on would have definitely swung the momentum in our favour.

Tbf having watched several times, don’t think it was deliberate. 

[The Quick Brown Fox]

Is it just me that thought there was also a handball right at the start? From Iheanachos shot, can't remember which defender it was but he saved it with his left arm and put it over the box, pretty close but far enough away to move his arm. 

[RonnieTodger]

One of the most definitive handballs that I've ever seen.

[ozleicester]

Just watching the replay... every person on the TV and in the stadium (except the ref) knew that was a Peno

[sylofox]

Just more to argue the use of VAR.