RowlattsFox Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 I don't want to say the pre-match talk encouraged it, because that would be wrong and it probably would've happened anyway but I did think this particular element of Bulgarians saw it as a challenge almost, to get the players to walk off or react. I wasn't able to watch the match but from the pictures I saw, you can see on their faces that they just think its funny. Its difficult to say what they players should do, and I can see the arguments from those that say they should walk off and not play and those that they should finish the match. Its up to players at the end of the day. Its weird because before this week, if you'd asked me to list European countries with severe racism I probably wouldn't think of Bulgaria initially. That's more of a lack of knowledge from me though because they clearly have history. I feel for football a little bit because how much can they do stop a deep lying cultural issue and its impossible to change a mindset. They somehow need to stop these people getting into grounds, do they have banning orders in Bulgaria, I wouldn't bet on it. I don't know what UEFA can do next, for repeat offenders it has got to a stage where tournament expulsion is a potential outcome. That's difficult for the players and also the fair-minded Bulgarians of which I'm sure there are plenty. Ban from next UEFA competition? Play home games somewhere else? Be forced to play all games away? Behind closed doors? Hasn't worked previously. None of that will stop racists being racists.
David Hankey Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 Ban Bulgaria from any international competitions for at least 10 years. Draconian actions need to be taken but, no doubt, UEFA & FIFA will duck the issue.
That_Dude Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 When it reaches this level, walk off. Club/team whose fans are the offenders loses the game 0-3, gets at least 5 home matches ban or plays them behind closed doors. Add a hefty fine for the club/team and a legal prosecution against said offenders. Tournament exclusion for repeated offenses. We'll see then if they want to keep on making nazi salutes or monkey noises and it will push the federations to take some measures. It won't stop racists being racists but we'll at least neither hear nor see them. Enough is enough.
bovril Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 27 minutes ago, David Hankey said: Ban Bulgaria from any international competitions for at least 10 years. Draconian actions need to be taken but, no doubt, UEFA & FIFA will duck the issue. Would you do the same thing for individual players who display racism?
KrefelderFox666 Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 38 minutes ago, David Hankey said: Ban Bulgaria from any international competitions for at least 10 years. Draconian actions need to be taken but, no doubt, UEFA & FIFA will duck the issue. I like your rational thinking... They need to punish individuals and they have plenty of footage for it (from yesterday's game), there is no hiding for UEFA now. Do you also blame Islam for all acts of terror and want to punish them all?
somebum Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 Just now, KrefelderFox666 said: I like your rational thinking... They need to punish individuals and they have plenty of footage for it (from yesterday's game), there is no hiding for UEFA now. Do you also blame Islam for all acts of terror and want to punish them all? Considering the Koran is clear on the subject, your argument is invalid. "Punish them all" would be equally stupid.
KrefelderFox666 Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 18 minutes ago, That_Dude said: When it reaches this level, walk off. Club/team whose fans are the offenders loses the game 0-3, gets at least 5 home matches ban or plays them behind closed doors. Add a hefty fine for the club/team and a legal prosecution against said offenders. Tournament exclusion for repeated offenses. We'll see then if they want to keep on making nazi salutes or monkey noises and it will push the federations to take some measures. It won't stop racists being racists but we'll at least neither hear nor see them. Enough is enough. Clubs/associations need full support from UEFA and the local authorities to cleanse the bad from the good. This is not a quick process by any means as a lot of the issues are embedded deep in society. However, they need to be given a chance to ban people (individuals or groups) from attending future games, UEFA also need to step in and identify those people to ban them. If they do the same next time, start increasing punishment until the authorities/local FA start actioning and results are shown. Having an attitude of punishing everyone is not going to get us any further. They'll take their punishment and then everything starts again. The problem is not the majority of fans in the stadium, it's the culture and individual groups that need addressing. It will take generations to educate their kids properly and grow up. And let's not forget that racism is just one of many issues in society, it's the current hot topic. There are many other issues that also need addressing.
KrefelderFox666 Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 2 minutes ago, somebum said: Considering the Koran is clear on the subject, your argument is invalid. "Punish them all" would be equally stupid. Exactly. Why punish everyone when only a small minority are responsible. It might work in a small group where one or two people step out of line and everyone else can see who has caused the issue. But not when we are talking thousands and thousands.
Guest Col city fan Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 49 minutes ago, David Hankey said: Ban Bulgaria from any international competitions for at least 10 years. Draconian actions need to be taken but, no doubt, UEFA & FIFA will duck the issue. Exactly this. Ban them and force not only the Bulgarian FA to sort this out, but the nation too. It needs to be this severe imo. The other thing I’d ask is why were those pond-life let into the ground last night? It was completely obvious what they were going to do.
RonnieTodger Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 From now on, the offending Bulgarian fans should be marched in and have the stadium gates locked behind them, forcing them to watch their shit team.
bovril Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 Banning countries and clubs from competitions would be incredibly difficult to control. You would need to draw a line somewhere, which is stupid because all racism is abhorrent. Also, it would lead to 'infiltrators' getting other clubs banned, I am sure. Let's not beat around the bush here, the group in Sofia last night were neo-Nazis. I have come into contact with these groups and they often have connections with people in authority. They came to the game with the specific intention of getting the game called off and getting on world media displaying their disgusting fascist behaviour. It would be interesting to find out who they are and how they managed to get into the game. I lived in Sofia for five years and I never got into trouble for being English, I also had black friends there who didn't face racism, although they avoided football games. But there is a massive problem with neo-Nazism in Bulgaria and other E. European countries, and it's getting worse, quickly. I'm pretty glad I left 3 years ago. Having said that I never thought I'd witness Nazi salutes in England either, but I have.
KrefelderFox666 Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 5 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said: From now on, the offending Bulgarian fans should be marched in and have the stadium gates locked behind them, forcing them to watch their shit team. Don't be so harsh.
Nalis Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 I know it was a different issue but did the English 5 year club ban in Europe change hooliganism between 1986 and 1991, or would things have changed anyway? I was too young to remember the start of it / Heysel. Reason I'm asking is regarding whether or not a long term ban would actually work?
Donk Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 The solution is simple. Tip paint on the section of the ground doing it. Theyll soon stop or tell the people to stop doing it if threatened by being blasted with something. Manure would work too. Park the truck somewhere near that section and spray away
Donk Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 2 hours ago, bovril said: Would you do the same thing for individual players who display racism? If a player racially abuses another one then id ban him yeah. No worries
Donk Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 You could also force every single one of their fans to turn up in a clown outfit if they want to get into the ground. That way if you want to sing and salute youll also look like a clown. Theyll soon get the message when racist skinheads are made to look utterly stupid. Blast em with water from a cannon. You need to make the nation look stupid enough that the people within finally get the message to their own people to pack it in.
Finnegan Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 14 minutes ago, MattP said: What the **** have I just read? 😂 The best application to be head of UEFA ever written. Long live president Donk.
Manwell Pablo Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 25 minutes ago, MattP said: What the **** have I just read? 😂 Genius Matt, Genius at work. The paint thing's actually got me laughing, it's like mass scale episode of Noel's House Party.
MC Prussian Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 UEFA faces issues ahead of Euro 2020. In short: Turkey's team influenced by Erdogan https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50041529 Ukraine and Russia qualified - won't be put in the same group in order to avoid political tensions, Ukraine will most definitely not be playing in St. Petersburg Should Armenia qualify, they most definitely won't be playing their group stage matches in Baku Should Kosovo qualify, there could be trouble with Russia, Spain, Romania and Azerbaijan (all of which do not recognize Kosovo, Kosovars aren't allowed to travel to these four nations; four out of the 12 group stage venues would thus already be out of the question) Should Serbia qualify, they won't be placed in the same group as Kosovo (or Croatia, for that matter) Should Belarus qualify, I wonder what that will do in case of Russia and Ukraine Should Bosnia-Herzegovina qualify, they most definitely won't be place in a group with Serbia (or Russia, for that matter) Should Switzerland qualify, they most definitely won't be placed in a group with Serbia again Thanks, UEFA. Thank you, Michel Platini. Making Euro 2020 a multi-national platform has its consequences.
Finnegan Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 Tbf one of the rules for participation is that you make yourself available to play any and all other participants home and away. If UEFA has recognised a team that should be sufficient, if you don't recognise them or you can't go there, it should be on you.
Guest MattP Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 7 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Tbf one of the rules for participation is that you make yourself available to play any and all other participants home and away. If UEFA has recognised a team that should be sufficient, if you don't recognise them or you can't go there, it should be on you. Do that and we've pretty much lost half of Europe Half the World if Israeli qualify for something.
Finnegan Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 32 minutes ago, MattP said: Do that and we've pretty much lost half of Europe Half the World if Israeli qualify for something. Good, **** 'em. How exactly is it within the spirit of football bringing everyone together if a group of nations want to turn up at the world cup, pretending to there in the spirit of fair play, but refusing to play Israel?
Guest MattP Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 8 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Good, **** 'em. How exactly is it within the spirit of football bringing everyone together if a group of nations want to turn up at the world cup, pretending to there in the spirit of fair play, but refusing to play Israel? I completely agree - I've long argued countries that force their athletes to refuse against Israel should be kicked out.
Jimothy Posted 15 October 2019 Posted 15 October 2019 3 hours ago, RonnieTodger said: From now on, the offending Bulgarian fans should be marched in and have the stadium gates locked behind them, forcing them to watch their shit team. 3 hours ago, KrefelderFox666 said: Don't be so harsh. Needs to be harsher. They should be flown over here and made to watch Spurs.
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