Claude Puel calls for a Leicester City reality check

[Deeg67]

The acid test for all this will come in the summer, irrespective of whether we finish 7th and sneak into Europe or 10th.  We need to go out and increase creativity in MF by an order of magnitude - one clear top-shelf starter (like Mendez), and probably a 2nd rotation player.  It's my belief (based on his track record in France) that Claude is going with the defensive-minded options because he's making the best of what he has on offer.  But if we go into next season with a very negative MF setup again next season, it will show that this is a philosophical choice by Puel, and that would be a fundamental disagreement I have with him.

[chapero82]

9 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

Yep, yep. 

 

Anyone with a little bit of foresight already knows this and we've been telling people here for months, blue in the face. It's good that it's been made clear by Puel too. 

 

Long term project, sustainable, takes time. Either back the project, get behind the young players and the manager or get off the ****ing bus. 

Everyone is entitled to there opinion, liking Puel or not doesn’t mean you are a fan or not,

 

I support Leicester City football Club not Puel football club,

Edited 12 January 2019 by chapero82

[Anglodanglo]

For those with a TL;DR disposition:

 

'Cut me some slack and let me finish the fooking job'

 

 

[Johnthefoxrayner]

1 hour ago, Dames said:

He really does talk a good game i’ll give him that. 

 

I’m concerned about the messages about lack of money though are we really that broke that we cant compete against any club in the top 10 in the market? Concerning if true.

It's not about money, Puel is building a side not buying one, look at the players thsy have just left, Iborra, silva looks like he is on his way out,, Slimani, decent money paid out for these players but what have they done not a lot let's bring our youth players through, I stand up for Puel for what he is doing with the youth players at Leicester, we have some quality with these players, 

[Vardinio'sCat]

 

Claude seems to have got his message across reasonably well this time.

 

Some of his remarks are certainly debatable, of course, but I think he makes many good points.

[Fosse93]

Not a huge fan of Puel but some of those quotes are brilliant.

 

I really want him to do well.

[smudger63]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Thanks for sharing @urban.spaceman!

 

To be honest I'm really glad he's come out and said this, because he's completely correct. It confirms everything we've all speculated on, which is that the club is looking to achieve success by developing players at the club over time instead of spending a sh*t ton of money. Personally this makes me pleased because I think clubs who spend vast fortunes on players lose the soul of their club. I have nothing against a marquee signing or two every summer, but I think fees spent by many clubs, including some of the "surprise" comparisons he gave like Everton and Wolves are both dangerous and have the mercenary feel to them. Our Premier League title was THE definitive title because it captured the quintessential essence of what football is, and captivated the world because of it.

 

We have so many British players, have just got Hamza in and around the first team and recalled Barnes. Throw Chilwell into the mix and that's three local lads (Chilwell for me counts given he's been in the city for over 10 years) who are likely to be first team players quite soon. That is in-****ing-credible job especially when you consider that at the time of writing we are 7th.

 

The one criticism that I think is fair from our fans is that the football is boring to watch. Essentially we all watch football for entertainment so I think it's perfectly fair to crticise a team for not having a go. When we won the title we often had games of less than 40% possession but our counter attacks were breathtaking and got you on the edge of your seat. BUT I do believe we will improve our attacking play over time. The quote about Mahrez is totally true, he was clearly talented but essentially a bit of a fancy dan when he arrived. It took a few seasons for him to blossom into a truly elite player. Bringing Barnes back is a great start as he has that "wow" factor, and we all need to remember to be patient and get behind the lads and club. If Ricardo and Maddison are indicative of the type of player we want to bring in, then we should continue to improve again in the summer. Puel has worked with players like Henry, Hazard, Trezeguet, etc and gave many of them their first chance. In the game against Chelsea, you could clearly see Hazard talking to Puel at the end of the game, which shows you how deep that respect goes. If you could pick one coach to develop your young players, Puel would be right up there alongside Wenger.

 

Another thing about the King Power group... their success has largely come down from being smart and patient enough to have a long term plan and sticking to it. That's how they grew the King Power brand and how they've approached their other business interests. If you look at the job they have done with our own club then they've done an incredible job, and that's ignoring the Premier League title. They have taken a Championship team that has spent most of their time in the Championship into a steady Premier League club, full of British talent with several players at the World Cup. And they are only getting started!

 

Some of my favourite quotes are below, and I think many on here would do well to pay specific attention to these:

 

“We know the normal difficulties to improve young players and get results. Normally it is not possible to improve young players and have the result at the same time. Normally when we improve the young players they perform later.

“There is a lot of pressure around the club, but we try to maintain good results and good improvement of lots of players.

 

“It costs a lot of money. A good example is Riyad became a great player but he was not a great player when he arrived in the club.

 

 

The problem with developing young players over time is, that like all young players, they are ambitious and hungry for sucess.

So when we develop a real quality youngster, and a top 6 club, or even an Everton or Wolves, who are shouting from the roof tops that they intend to break into that top 6 and win things, come in for them, then those fantastic players that we have developed and invested in, want to leave for what they will see as a more ambitious club.

Basically what he, and maybe at the request of the club are going to turn us into, is the Southampton, who produced a whole load of  fantastic young players, and then had to sell them to clubs (mainly Liverpool in there case) that are ambitious, which is ok, but at some point the well runs dry, and you end up in the situation they are in now.

Last week at Newport was an example of us being quite content to be a mid table also ran team in the premier league, raking in the money, but in the end that catches up with you, and you end up back in the championship the same way that Stoke and West Brom did.

If we were not going to give the FA Cup a real go this year, when we are already safe from relegation, then we never will, and what does that say to Chillwell, Maddison, Maguire, NDidi , Ricardo, and even Schmichael and Vardy, who must be wishing they had joined a club that was going to try and win things.

Yes we are building a fantastic state of the art training ground, and expanding the stadium, but if the club has no ambition of anything other than being a also ran mid table premier league team, then we will never attract or be able to keep hold of real talent that might move us forward.

In the summer when someone even like Wolves or Everton come in for Ricardo, Maguire, or Chillwell, what are we going to say to convince them to stay?

Stay with us boys, because we are developing a young squad of talented players.  You wont win anything, because we are not really interested in the cups, and mid table is perfectly fine, but at least you might even get a few games to rest when we play those unimportant cup games.

 

 

 

 

Edited 12 January 2019 by smudger63

[Pete from the USA]

I agree that this is getting ridiculous. Puel isn't going to get sacked because there are no grounds whatsoever to sack him. Yes, he's dull, but he's a competent manager. If you were having heart surgery would you rather have a competent surgeon or a fun and charming surgeon?

Edited 12 January 2019 by Pete from the USA

[Fosse93]

1 minute ago, Pete from the USA said:

I agree that this is getting ridiculous. Puel isn't going to get sacked because there are no grounds whatsoever to sack him. Yes, he's dull, but he's a competent manager. If you were having heart surgery would you rather have a competent surgeon or a fun and charming surgeon?

Not quite the same pal...

[Pete from the USA]

22 minutes ago, Fosse93 said:

Not quite the same pal...

Not quite. But the point is that I'd rather have a competent manager who can take the club forward than one who is charming in press conferences.

[urban.spaceman]

20 minutes ago, smudger63 said:

The problem with developing young players over time is, that like all young players, they are ambitious and hungry for sucess.

So when we develop a real quality youngster, and a top 6 club, or even an Everton or Wolves, who are shouting from the roof tops that they intend to break into that top 6 and win things, then those fantastic players that we have developed and invested in, want to leave for what they will see as a more ambitious club.

Basically what he, and maybe at the request of the club are going to turn us into, is the Southampton, who produced a whole load of  fantastic young players, and then had to sell them to clubs (mainly Liverpool in there case) that are ambitious, which is ok, but at some point the well runs dry, and you end up in the situation they are in now.

Last week at Newport was an example of us being quite content to be a mid table also ran team in the premier league, raking in the money, but in the end that catches up with you, and you end up back in the championship the same way that Stoke and West Brom did.

If we were not going to give the FA Cup a real go this year, when we are already safe from relegation, then we never will, and what does that say to Chillwell, Maddison, Maguire, NDidi and even Schmichael and Vardy, who must be wishing they had joined a club that was going to try and win things.

Yes we are building a fantastic state of the art training ground, and expanding the stadium, but if the club has no ambition of anything other than being a also ran mid table premier league team, then we will never attract or be able to keep hold of real talent that might move us forward.

 

 

The thing about Newport was that it exposed the poor quality that still exists in some parts of the squad. Puel had a right to expect better from that team. It vindicated his desire to continue developing the squad. As I’ve said elsewhere, developing this squad is going to take a very long time. 

 

As for the young ambitious players - we did some excellent business in nailing them down to long term contracts. Ideally, they can achieve their ambitions with us if we continue to develop into a top team. If they insist on moving on, these contracts guarantee we’ll get a decent fee for them, which could then be invested back into the squad.

 

We don’t have to be the new Southampton. We are in a much stronger position on and off the pitch to be able to withhold the vultures. 

[smudger63]

18 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

The thing about Newport was that it exposed the poor quality that still exists in some parts of the squad. Puel had a right to expect better from that team. It vindicated his desire to continue developing the squad. As I’ve said elsewhere, developing this squad is going to take a very long time. 

 

As for the young ambitious players - we did some excellent business in nailing them down to long term contracts. Ideally, they can achieve their ambitions with us if we continue to develop into a top team. If they insist on moving on, these contracts guarantee we’ll get a decent fee for them, which could then be invested back into the squad.

 

We don’t have to be the new Southampton. We are in a much stronger position on and off the pitch to be able to withhold the vultures. 

The trouble is these young ambitious players are not going to hang around for 5 years waiting for the club to catch up with their own ambitions, and for every one that we lose,we have to replace with someone who is going to be some where near their level, otherwise we are never going to move forward.

We will forever be developing young talent for other clubs, but like i said, in the end that well runs dry, and we won`t have the talent to develop anymore, and then we become what Southampton are now.

It`s good that we have some great young talent here, but they need help, we have to get the right balance, but we also have to become a club with an ambition to win a cup at least, and not just be happy with mid table finish, or else that young talent will leave us for a club that does.

Edited 12 January 2019 by smudger63

[StriderHiryu]

53 minutes ago, smudger63 said:

 

Yes we are building a fantastic state of the art training ground, and expanding the stadium, but if the club has no ambition of anything other than being a also ran mid table premier league team, then we will never attract or be able to keep hold of real talent that might move us forward.

 

 

Getting all of our best young players on long term deals, spending 100m on a new training academy and redeveloping the stadium and surrounding area is the sign of a club with limited ambition? I beg to differ. 

 

Will we lose some of our better players? It’s inevitable given clubs like Man U pay Alexis Sanchez 650k a week, hence why we need to find a different way to compete. And our club played pretty hardball with Mahrez’s departure. 

 

Upon promotion Vichai said he wanted to get the club into Europe in 3 years. He sanctioned the record purchase of Ulloa, broke our wage structure for Cambiasso and agreed to spend big on Kramaric when we were bottom of the league. The ambition hasn’t changed but the league has. I’m not sure what else we can actually do? FFP rules mean the club can’t just spend 300m on players even if they wanted to unless they create a Man City style bullshit deal where we sponsor ourselves. Oh and by the way we already did that in the Championship (getting fined in the process) and you might notice the King Power logo on our shirts too?

 

Vichai passed away and we’ve already won the title so Top could just pack it in and give up. Except the club has pressed on with the training academy and stadium. 

 

Claiming to be ambitious and actually achieving those goals are two different things but we definitely have the ambition. But remember that the team one place above us have 10x+ our revenues. Our title win was 5000/1 for a reason. 

 

Perspective is needed which is Monsieur Puel’s point!

Edited 12 January 2019 by StriderHiryu

[ozleicester]

[urban.spaceman]

16 minutes ago, smudger63 said:

The trouble is these young ambitious players are not going to hang around for 5 years waiting for the club to catch up with their own ambitions, and for every one that we lose,we have to replace with someone who is going to be some where near their level, otherwise we are never going to move forward.

We will forever be developing young talent for other clubs, but like i said, in the end that well runs dry, and we won`t have the talent to develop anymore, and then we become what Southampton are now.

It`s good that we have some great young talent here, but they need help, we have to get the right balance, but we also have to become a club with an ambition to win a cup at least, and not just be happy with mid table finish, or else that young talent will leave us for a club that does.

It doesn’t have to be that way though. We should be using Southampton as the model to avoid. The problem with Southampton is that they never had the stability of management or coaches that we do now. And their clutch of decent players was spread out much wider over their squad over a number of years. When the big boys came sniffing with open wallets, they felt they could do with that money. 

 

We have 6-8 extremely promising youngster in just this squad. And even better we learn from our mistakes. The Kante deal taught us to never put in a release clause. And never sell more than one major player in one window. We proved with the Mahrez Debacle last year that we wouldn’t be bullied into selling them when we don’t have to. 

 

This and the training ground puts us in a much, much stronger position than Southampton ever were.

[somebum]

 

The state of this place 

 

80 percent said sack him

 

2 wins later

 

Let's all back him

[Deeg67]

13 minutes ago, somebum said:

 

The state of this place 

 

80 percent said sack him

 

2 wins later

 

Let's all back him

I think it's more like 40% of the posters making 80% of the noise.

[somebum]

6 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

I think it's more like 40% of the posters making 80% of the noise.

I just checked

 

486/282 in favour of him out

 

64%

 

Slightly higher than 40% but lower than the 80%. 

 

Numbers probably changed now after the two wins, but pressure back on him after the cup debacle. 

[Toddybad]

4 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

The acid test for all this will come in the summer, irrespective of whether we finish 7th and sneak into Europe or 10th.  We need to go out and increase creativity in MF by an order of magnitude - one clear top-shelf starter (like Mendez), and probably a 2nd rotation player.  It's my belief (based on his track record in France) that Claude is going with the defensive-minded options because he's making the best of what he has on offer.  But if we go into next season with a very negative MF setup again next season, it will show that this is a philosophical choice by Puel, and that would be a fundamental disagreement I have with him.

Just on this, I don't see how Puel is going with defensive minded options.

 

We play 4-2-3-1 with two of the four being very attacking minded full backs. We're playing with 6 players that are attacking and four sitting.

 

The issue we have is that our 'wingers' struggle to impact the game when they come inside into packed spaces, with our full backs overlapping them. So we end up hitting crosses to a striker that wants through balls. 

 

If our recruitment now focuses on back up striker and two highly skilled players who can play in those advanced positions and find the quick one touch football to break down defences then our defensive unit is already in place.

Edited 12 January 2019 by Toddybad

[Deeg67]

2 minutes ago, Toddybad said:

Just on this, I don't see how Puel is going with defensive minded options.

 

We play 4-2-3-1 with two of the four being very attacking minded full backs. We're playing with 6 players that are attacking and four sitting.

 

The issue we have is that our 'wingers' struggle to impact the game when they come inside into packed spaces, with our full backs overlapping them. So we end up hitting crosses to a striker that wants through balls. 

 

If our recruitment now focuses on back up striker and two highly skilled players who can play in those advanced positions and find the quick one touch football to break down defences then our defensive unit is already in place.

That is one issue, IMHO.  But as long as you have no one to act as a conduit to transition play from your back four to attack, there's a serious limit to how many chances you're going to generate no matter how adventurous your fullbacks are and who your wingers are (unless they're world-class, and let's be realistic about that).  All you have is wide attacks and crosses - and no striker who's good in the air.  And you're only getting about 60% out of Maddison's potential because he either has to drop too far back himself to try and start the play, or stay up high and never see the ball with time to operate.

 

All of Mendy, N'didi and Choudhury are decent players on their own.  None of them should, ideally, be paired with the other.  Barnes back is a potentially big step forward, and another striker to act as Vardy's heir or be a change-of-style in attack (ideally both) is a priority.  But creativity in CMF, ideally a box-to-box player, should be the priority.  And if it's not, that's a statement of purpose for Puel.  Which is fine, he's entitled and I support most of what he's doing - but that would be an area where we strongly disagree.

 

 

[Wizerud]

5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

“They had a fantastic image, but now their teams play in the Championship.

My favorite bit.

[Nick]

He’s doing some great stuff. I’m unsure if though he’s the only person that can do the things he is doing. 7th is great so far even though the football to get us there has been mainly awful. I’m all for developing young talent and plucking players from the championship, I also think we should be plucking young players from other global divisions too who possess differing technical abilities due to where they learn their football.

 

In that interview he kept repeating “it’s not possible” when sometimes I think clearly some stuff might be and he kept banging on about a difficult atmosphere with the players.... Is that post crash or because they are unhappy for footballing reasons?

[Nick]

1 hour ago, Toddybad said:

Just on this, I don't see how Puel is going with defensive minded options.

 

We play 4-2-3-1 with two of the four being very attacking minded full backs. We're playing with 6 players that are attacking and four sitting.

 

The issue we have is that our 'wingers' struggle to impact the game when they come inside into packed spaces, with our full backs overlapping them. So we end up hitting crosses to a striker that wants through balls. 

 

If our recruitment now focuses on back up striker and two highly skilled players who can play in those advanced positions and find the quick one touch football to break down defences then our defensive unit is already in place.

For me the four sitting players you refer to are all in the middle of the park. The middle of the park just sits and watches the players on the outside run into trouble or put a ball into the box that doesn’t reach the one player in it or the ball goes back sideways and the process is repeated. We need creativity in the middle not 2/3 defensive midfielders.

[reynard]

4 hours ago, smudger63 said:

The problem with developing young players over time is, that like all young players, they are ambitious and hungry for sucess.

So when we develop a real quality youngster, and a top 6 club, or even an Everton or Wolves, who are shouting from the roof tops that they intend to break into that top 6 and win things, come in for them, then those fantastic players that we have developed and invested in, want to leave for what they will see as a more ambitious club.

Basically what he, and maybe at the request of the club are going to turn us into, is the Southampton, who produced a whole load of  fantastic young players, and then had to sell them to clubs (mainly Liverpool in there case) that are ambitious, which is ok, but at some point the well runs dry, and you end up in the situation they are in now.

Last week at Newport was an example of us being quite content to be a mid table also ran team in the premier league, raking in the money, but in the end that catches up with you, and you end up back in the championship the same way that Stoke and West Brom did.

If we were not going to give the FA Cup a real go this year, when we are already safe from relegation, then we never will, and what does that say to Chillwell, Maddison, Maguire, NDidi , Ricardo, and even Schmichael and Vardy, who must be wishing they had joined a club that was going to try and win things.

Yes we are building a fantastic state of the art training ground, and expanding the stadium, but if the club has no ambition of anything other than being a also ran mid table premier league team, then we will never attract or be able to keep hold of real talent that might move us forward.

In the summer when someone even like Wolves or Everton come in for Ricardo, Maguire, or Chillwell, what are we going to say to convince them to stay?

Stay with us boys, because we are developing a young squad of talented players.  You wont win anything, because we are not really interested in the cups, and mid table is perfectly fine, but at least you might even get a few games to rest when we play those unimportant cup games.

 

 

 

 

This is exactly the point for players. The timing of these statements is also interesting. His honesty is to be admired and much of what Puel says is completely correct. However, the bit about not being able to compete with the Everton, Wolves and West Ham is a concern.  If we can't compete with them what happens when Newcastle find a buyer or if Leeds get promoted or Villa and then in a couple of seasons we aren't able to compete with them. All of a sudden 7th place ambitions become 12th or 13th place ambitions? And let's not pretend these couldn't happen.

I also wonder if this is the club speaking through Puel rather than Puel himself. The context and timing is so out of kilter with his usual press comments and these come on the back of the confirmed investment in the training facilities, the amount of money which these days buys 1 and a half top quality players only, as well as the fact we have an onging loan which needs to be financed through all the premier league money for this and next season at least.

As Smudger correctly says, ambitious players want to win things. You may join a club like us to help you on your way but at the back of your and your agent's minds will be the thought that once an offer comes in I'm off.

Getting them to sign long-term contracts is a way of  providing some financial protection for the club bit long-term we simply become a feeder club for the bigger clubs which now appear to be not just the top 6. Developing a young team is all well and good if you are going to keep them together for some seasons but if all you are going to do is sell some each year then I'm not sure that provides long-term stability.

The Puel supporters want long-term managerial stability, but how long is that? These days 2 years is a long time for a manager. You don't build a dynasty in two years or even three. Whilst at the moment our league position is good I challenge anyone to say the entertainment is the same. An obvious lack of desire in the cups means league position is all we seem to be interested in. Whilst 7th looks good the difference between us an the bottom 3 is not so great as some on here would make out. The statements seem to indicate that we should expect Everton, Wolves and West Ham to finish above us so should we be content with 10th this season?

To me this doesn't tally with spending so much money on new training facilities. So again I would question whose statements these really are. Is this a manager fighting his corner, stating a mid table finish is fine for us or is this the club using him to temper supporter's hopes?

[Stan]

If there was an obvious lack of desire in cup competitions, why would he bother getting us to three quarter finals, narrowly losing them. Surely, he would look to get eliminated ASAP.

 

I seem to recall him not priorising cups at Southampton, but somehow managed to get to a final and robbed of victory in the process.