the fox Posted 20 March 2019 Share Posted 20 March 2019 2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: Give it to Boris till the end of the season. Boris the blade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 20 March 2019 Share Posted 20 March 2019 2 minutes ago, the fox said: Find the guy an interesting listen but can't watch him for more than half an hour before feeling sleepy. Oh absolutely, with that monotone drawl of his he should be reading shipping forecasts I disagree with his more conservative values but I have endless respect for his capacity to formulate a coherent and respectful argument in the face of constant and petty provocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Oh absolutely, with that monotone drawl of his he should be reading shipping forecasts I disagree with his more conservative values but I have endless respect for his capacity to formulate a coherent and respectful argument in the face of constant and petty provocation. When he said to the interviewer "you are currently willing to risk offending me in pursuit of truth, why should you have the Right to do that? It's been rather uncomfortable" was one of the best counter arguments that I've ever heard. Logical and simple enough for everyone to understand. The guy is obviously rather smart but he doesn't use those big words in order to sound smart which is honesty endearing and worthy of respect. I agree with some of his views but he seems to highlight the power that a sharply dressed, soft-spoken person can have with the right use of wording and leading his arguments with a fairly relatable opinion to provide a more stable platform for his next, less-than-popular opinion. The guy is harmless as far as I know (even though he had many accusation thrown at him which I don't know the validity of them). But that's beyond the point. Conor McGregor is also an amazing talker with enough charisma to fill a room but the amount of crap he speaks whilst still having a crazy large following is honestly a psychological case study of how can a charismatic guy effect people around him. Edited 21 March 2019 by the fox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, the fox said: When he said to the interviewer "you are currently willing to risk offending me in pursuit of truth, why should you have the Right to do that? It's been rather uncomfortable" was one of the best counter arguments that I've ever heard. Logical and simple enough for everyone to understand. The guy is obviously rather smart but he doesn't use those big words in order to sound smart which is honesty endearing and worthy of respect. I agree with some of his views but he seems to highlight the power that a sharply dressed, soft-spoken person can have with the right use of wording and leading his arguments with a fairly relatable opinion to provide a more stable platform for his next, less-than-popular opinion. The guy is harmless as far as I know (even though he had many accusation thrown at him which I don't know the validity of them). But that's beyond the point. Conor McGregor is also an amazing talker with enough charisma to fill a room but the amount of crap he speaks whilst still having a crazy large following is honestly a psychological case study of how can a charismatic guy effect people around him. That interview should be shown to every wannabe politician as a case study in how to deal respectfully with gotcha journalism. I haven't yet seen any of the myriad accusations against him - mainly related to transphobia and being a recruiter for the alt-right - actually be substantiated if that helps. I guess some would class him transphobic for his resistance towards being legally bound to use alternative pronouns but from what I've seen I believe he puts his arguments forward in good faith, indeed I feel like in one interview he said he'd happily use someone's pronouns and he only has an issue with being legally forced to do so... don't take my word for it though, I'll see if I can find the clip in a couple of days when I'm back at home with the luxury of a pc instead of slowly tapping away on a phone. Edited 21 March 2019 by Carl the Llama It's probably worth clarifying for anyone who hasn't seen it that the quote you used is from him defending the right to offend him, out of context it looks like he's arguing against it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 1 hour ago, MC Prussian said: Again, I like to refer to Robinson's Pettibone interview. All the attributes given to him emphasize "former" - former member of the BNP, former leader of the EDL. Why this constant regurgitation? Seems to be the way of wording it in order to create a certain effect. So, the media apparently acknowledge his change of heart. Why the constant highlighting of his past? Other politicians swap parties, as well. It's not out of the ordinary - the list is sheer endless: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_politicians_who_have_crossed_the_floor As for the Cambridge Pub incident, you can clearly see him wearing a light outfit (flip-flops even) in his cell phone video, he was out with his wife and kids. Surely indicators that the "hooligan" argument doesn't hold up to the truth? Why would you bring your family with you if you were out for picking fights? Makes no sense. To me, the police intervention occurred under a pretense. I see the UKIP development with interest, I wonder whether the right-wing tendencies will continue. Maybe the whole Farage affair is blown out of proportion, with Farage sick of not being in the limelight any longer? He is also cited as opposing Batten's role in UKIP, so there's more to it than just Robinson. Sadly, I think in these troubled political times, people search support in groups and are easily gullible, following extremist causes more easily - that accounts for both sides of the political aisle. Why are we letting it come to this? Where are reason and personal tolerance in terms of discussion abilities? And to top it off, you bring Hitler into the equation at the very end. Congrats. A move that kills all remaining rationale in the discussion. It's just as dumb as leftist Americans and American media putting Trump and that dead Austrian nutjob on the same pedestal. Cringeworthy. Please stop. - He has moved on from "former" involvement in Far Right causes to current involvement in different Far Right causes, just being cunning and media savvy about how he does it: online investigation of Muslim rapists, advising UKIP on the latter - In particular, he cultivates an image of victimhood (his purpose in this case) to build his image as the oppressed representative of the common man, fighting back against the "liberal elite", and Muslims, in particular. - He probably wasn't picking fights in Cambridge, but he wasn't accused of that. He was issued with a dispersal order (a preventive measure)....and a court has found that justified. Maybe the police did that partly because of his political notoriety, but maybe not as he was 1 of 18 blokes treated alike, and several of them were known football hooligans (even if they weren't causing trouble at the time). Under the law, people can get moved on by the police on a preventive basis, without committing crimes. - Farage (not a man I like) opposed Batten mainly because he sought to turn UKIP from a pro-Brexit party into an anti-Muslim party....and appointed Robinson as an adviser on child rape (focusing on Muslim abusers, not non-Muslim abusers) - You misunderstand my point about Hitler. I was not trying to make some facile comparison between Robinson and Hitler, but merely using an extreme example to point out that somebody saying "I'm not a bigot" doesn't make it true. You seem to desperately want to believe that Robinson is a reformed character because he says he's blameless, without properly assessing whether that is true or not. That is massively naive. Judge him by his actions, not his propaganda. - The very name/pseudonym "Tommy Robinson" that he uses is borrowed from a locally famous football hooligan - Here he is being "level-headed and softly-spoken" (2017)....watch video embedded in article. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/revealed-full-tape-tommy-robinson-10686928 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: That interview should be shown to every wannabe politician as a case study in how to deal respectfully with gotcha journalism. I haven't yet seen any of the myriad accusations against him - mainly related to transphobia and being a recruiter for the alt-right - actually be substantiated if that helps. I guess some would class him transphobic for his resistance towards being legally bound to use alternative pronouns but from what I've seen I believe he puts his arguments forward in good faith, indeed I feel like in one interview he said he'd happily use someone's pronouns and he only has an issue with being legally forced to do so... don't take my word for it though, I'll see if I can find the clip in a couple of days when I'm back at home with the luxury of a pc instead of slowly tapping away on a phone. Think the accusations are about him fueling young, White men's hatred towards women (specifically Feminists) which I find ridiculous because he said more than once that it's not his aim at all. The problem is, some who hate women listen to his videos and try to justify themselves by selectively picking portions of his arguments to suit their opinion/agenda which is sad because that's not what the man wants. He has the right to not call others by the pronouns they choose and it is honesty moronic to make it a law that forces others to do so. He is like we both said, a smart man but he isn't a Media Darling because of his views (IMO, I find many of them fair, valid and not hateful to anyone but didn't watch every one of his videos so who knows? For me, he sounds like a levelheaded guy for the most part). The man got a lot of heart to be able to spend his time talking to people who are neither open to a discussion nor objective. Edited 21 March 2019 by the fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 That site is frustrating to say the least. Just gave up on the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, the fox said: That site is frustrating to say the least. Just gave up on the video. You don't see much, just Yaxley peacefully explaining to another man that while he doesn't agree with him he'll fight to the death to defend his right to an opinion before providing a physical demonstration of what that might look like. Edited 21 March 2019 by Carl the Llama The video's silent but I assume that's what the conversation is about 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 Back to brexit, what's the chance after today's shambles that by the end of the week we're finally rid of the gruesome twosome heading each party? Might encourage the EU to extend for 2 years giving us time to get our shit together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep blue Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 7 hours ago, Izzy said: They're all a shower of shit really. I've always tried to give TM the benefit of the doubt seeing as she was handed a poisoned chalice and a near impossible job with Brexit, but my patience has ran out. She may well be useless but nobody has yet convinced me that anyone else could have done a better job and why. Basically Cameron took a massive shit on her carpet and left her to clean it up. She wasn't handed anything. She grasped her only opportunity to be PM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep blue Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 7 hours ago, MattP said: Watching that earlier it reminded me how similar they actually are, that was sort of thing I'd expect him to do if he was prime minister. Going over the heads of MP's to appeal to public is actually quite terrible - totally belittles the idea of our representative democracy. Disgraceful in fact. Easy to forget we have a representative democracy, having allowed such a weighty issue to have been dictated by a flawed referendum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 5 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: You don't see much, just Yaxley peacefully explaining to another man that while he doesn't agree with him he'll fight to the death to defend his right to an opinion before providing a physical demonstration of what that might look like. A conversation boosted massively by one party inebriated. You could say both were in the flow, just for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 7 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: I'm sorry but if you want a man who's thoughtful and soft-spoken, in many ways controversial, but wrongfully maligned by mainstream media as a hate figure then you're thinking of Jordan Peterson. To be fair to the media in this country it's only in the Guardian where I've seen Peterson described as hateful etc Most of the others are very fair and he has written three fantastic articles in The Times. No idea about the US though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Izzy said: I've no idea why she'd want to stay in power much longer. She doesn't need the money, stress or hassle really. She's aged about 15 years in the last 12 months and looks/sounds like a bag of nails. I'd like to think that the reason she's being so stubborn is that she genuinely thinks she's trying to implement the will of the people. If that's nonsense and it's 'all about her' then I'd be really disappointed. Now you're being fickle - it was only a few months ago you wanted to shag her! 9 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: Give it to Boris till the end of the season. We'd still end up relegated but with a points deduction. 8 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: SO, as things stand, we have a Prime Minister who is more reliably defeatable than the Daleks and a Leader of the Opposition who is happy to meet with Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRA but storms out of rooms because of the black guy in it. How do I claim political asylum Botswana? 1 Are you angling for a job at The Sun, Spacecake? I'm pretty sure the guy's ethnicity was irrelevant. Edited 21 March 2019 by Buce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 Imagine if Jezbollah had turned upto the meeting and instead of Chukka Umanna sat there it was Luciana Berger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebfromgrebland Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 For those that are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 4 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 For those that are interested. That’s moving quickly! About a 1000 sign ups every 30 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfanazer Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 I'm not really into politics but surely if Brexit isn't executed as voted by the majority, we are surely no longer a democratic country? The whole thing just seems like a shit show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 1 hour ago, Buce said: Now you're being fickle - it was only a few months ago you wanted to shag her! We'd still end up relegated but with a points deduction. Are you angling for a job at The Sun, Spacecake? I'm pretty sure the guy's ethnicity was irrelevant. I was being facetious because I’m so bloody frustrated about the whole thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Grebfromgrebland Posted 21 March 2019 Popular Post Share Posted 21 March 2019 True but now we know what brexit is beginningto look like rather than an abstract idea we should have the chance to vote on it. Bit like buying a house, it looks great so you put an offer in. Then you do the survey and it's got damp, subsidence and the extension didn't have planning permission. You then knowing the facts decide it's not as good as you initially thought. We as a nation we should have the final say. Not any one else. If knowing the facts we still vote to leave then that's fine we all have to go with it. That's democracy. Right now leavers seem scared of a second vote as they think they'll lose this time round. If the mood of the country has changed we have to vote again. This isn't even taking into account proven election fraud and the proven lies of the leave campaign. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 12 minutes ago, foxfanazer said: I'm not really into politics but surely if Brexit isn't executed as voted by the majority, we are surely no longer a democratic country? The whole thing just seems like a shit show Pretty much and that's why only about 80 MP's out of 650 voted for a second referendum last week. Democracy is built and can only function with the consent of the loser - it's sadly that with Brexit and Trump we have started to see less and less of and I do fear where we are heading with that attitude. Most Remainers have been fantastic and accepted the result whilst then campaigning to keep us as close as possible to the EU - but others like Alastair Campbell, who are so used to getting their own way, have behaved like a toddler on a two year temper tantrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 10 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: Are you sure it's not a defence because it sounds like one. He gives a good gab, that's how he has so many followers, but he also gives a good doorstep intimidation mob if you aren't on his side. Don't be tricked by the cvnt. I don’t recall much sympathy for JRM when he was being hounded on his doorstep. In fact quite a few were rejoicing, despite the fact he had his children with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 4 minutes ago, Strokes said: I don’t recall much sympathy for JRM when he was being hounded on his doorstep. In fact quite a few were rejoicing, despite the fact he had his children with him. What, on here? I don't recall that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 1 minute ago, Buce said: What, on here? I don't recall that. Rig Stanley was if I recall and a lot over social media. Many were unsympathetic to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 21 March 2019 Share Posted 21 March 2019 2 minutes ago, Buce said: What, on here? I don't recall that. RogStanley and Sharpes Fox both said it was fine. A better example would be Farage though - very few in Westminster had any sympathy of politicians being hounded until it was one of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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