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[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

10 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Thanks for reminding me of this ridiculous furore:

 

 

Hopefully we’ll get to see it now it’s been confirmed he was a nonce. 

Not confirmed.  I'm still holding out for him and sitting on the fence.  Please dont be a nonce Michael

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

What about those who hold the core belief you can't change your gender and therefore refuse to acknowledge that? 

 

I mean this isn't remotely comparable to race, you don't get anyone denying people are black.

 

Hate speech law is becoming grotesque, this was never intended to send people to court for hurting the feelings of others, be extremely careful with it or you'll end up with leaders elected who will do away with it all.

 

Absolutely - that's how I've always understood this to be, when extremists arrive they are defeated through logical argument from their opponents - and if they aren't capable of that step aside for someone who can.

 

I've seen Conservative and Labour politicians both say he shouldnt be on television or youtube, a decade ago people like Margaret Hodge didn't complain about that - they went on the ground and took them on as she did with the BNP in Barking.

 

Yet again the lack of substandard politicians continues to cause us problems.

Those people are of course free to hold those ideas - it's not the only area of science that gets mainstream politicisation and while climate change ignorers, for instance, irritate the hell out of me I'm not about to arrest them just for being morons - start arresting people for that and we'd have to build about fifty times as many courthouses.

 

If, however, they are putting their point across in a way that is clearly designed to be derogatory and attacking (and most often those motivated to point out "there's only two genders" are motivated that way otherwise they wouldn't bother with the discussion at all) crosses a line IMO. You don't get people denying folks are black but you do get them denying that the way they do things because they're black is valid - but if you want a closer comparison homophobic slurs would likely be closer seeing as that is a demographic where the thing to be targetted is less "visible", but gets targetted.

 

I'm with you on hate speech legislation having to be monitored very carefully, as I said - but I do think it necessary because words are sometimes important.

 

NB. Totally agree with you saying that Robinson needs to be directly confronted on platform rather than de-platformed as it's likely the best way to disinfect the ideas that he has.

Edited 20 March 2019 by leicsmac

[urban.spaceman]

21 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I vaguely recall scandal over images of him playing MJ but that show in general (Urban Myths) has completely passed me by. Looks like a lot of fun.

The twats on twitter got the episode pulled, which only made me want to watch it even more.

[urban.spaceman]

18 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Not confirmed.  I'm still holding out for him and sitting on the fence.  Please dont be a nonce Michael

Someone should have asked him that when he was growing up!

[Alf Bentley]

So, to avoid cabinet resignations, May is only going to ask for a 3-month Brexit delay - for now, at least.

 

Does that change the options, given that 11th April is reportedly the last date on which we'd be able to say that we were taking part in the Euro elections?

Doesn't that make it very difficult for May to request a longer extension after 11th April?

Assuming the EU agrees a 3-month extension (much likelier than it agreeing a longer one, in the absence of a Brexit solution), wouldn't that create 2 cliff-edges - 11th April and 30th June?

 

If May persists in trying to bring back her deal, isn't there LESS incentive for opponents to support her deal any time soon?

Those opponents scared of No Deal needn't worry about it until late June but can keep trying for their alternative solutions. If they've not switched now, a week before the deadline, why would they switch before June?

Those opponents potentially scared of No Brexit have an active incentive to wait until after 11th April so that a longer extension becomes very difficult, if not impossible....that would make both Soft Brexit and Second Referendum impossible due to lack of time, unless the EU agreed some bodge whereby existing MEPs continued to serve for a few months or the UK agreed to temporarily stay in the EU without MEPs....

 

Am I right in thinking that supporters of Soft Brexit or Second Referendum might need to get parliamentary support for their options by April 11th?

After that, the choice could be No Deal v. May's Deal v. Revoke Article 50. There'd also still be time for an election, but no guarantee that would break the impasse....

 

A lot can happen between now and April 11th, of course.

[Nick]

She is determined to rail road her own deal through.

 

 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

14 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Someone should have asked him that when he was growing up!

 

[Bellend Sebastian]

More on the 'mis-gendering' story from earlier, including the legal pickle Father Ted writer Graham Linehan found himself in after similar allegations.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/20/catholic-journalist-investigated-by-police-after-misgendering-trans-woman

 

I'm absolutely NOT going to get involved in the rights and wrongs of that debate, but f*** me if you want to progress a cause there's a right and a wrong way of doing it

 

[Countryfox]

The cruel cruel irony of this interesting article ...   plus the fact that whatever this poor little fella voted regarding Brexit ...  he wont be around to see what happens !  ...   

 

 

[Nick]

EU have/will oppose 30th June short delay but will back a longer one! According to leaked document....

Edited 20 March 2019 by Nick

[Beechey]

Feel like I'm having my head smashed against a brick wall by Theresa May.

[Kopfkino]

Maybe I'm holding out too much hope but hasn't May essentially committed to resigning 

[Alf Bentley]

54 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

She is determined to rail road her own deal through.

 

 

 

Undoubtedly......doesn't mean she'll succeed, though.

 

37 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

EU have/will oppose 30th June short delay but will back a longer one! According to leaked document....

 

That was the rumour a day or two ago, but BBC Lunchtime News reported that Juncker has said EU should only offer up to about 25th May - date of Euro elections.

We'll find that out over the coming days, presumably - though there's still the potential for internal arguments within the EU27 about this one - and any extension requires unanimous support by all 27.

 

5 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Maybe I'm holding out too much hope but hasn't May essentially committed to resigning 

 

She committed to going before the 2022 election, didn't she?

 

In practice, I imagine she's hoping to finalise this stage of Brexit and to go then (maybe soon after June, if she gets the extension requested?).

 

Hard to imagine her carrying on much longer, even if we end up with a second, longer extension or something.....but then who do we end up with? Lots of unappetising choices.....

 

Quite possible that the Tory Party, both parties, Govt, Parliament or Nation implode before then, anyway....  "Gotta laugh or else you'd cry"....

[Voll Blau]

Big Mac's had enough. And who could blame him...

 

 

[Guest MattP]

What a place we've come to when we have to hope we get kicked out rather than leave on some sort of deal.

 

I hope that's true about Macron but I just don't see it.

[Kopfkino]

9 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

She committed to going before the 2022 election, didn't she?

 

In practice, I imagine she's hoping to finalise this stage of Brexit and to go then (maybe soon after June, if she gets the extension requested?).

 

Hard to imagine her carrying on much longer, even if we end up with a second, longer extension or something.....but then who do we end up with? Lots of unappetising choices.....

 

Quite possible that the Tory Party, both parties, Govt, Parliament or Nation implode before then, anyway....  "Gotta laugh or else you'd cry"....

 

Well I took her saying she couldn't as PM accept delaying beyond 30th June as her saying she'd resign if it was delayed beyond that. Not the best strategy as it'd be a way to make a long delay more palatable to absolutely everyone. Of course even if May did resign, the removal men would have to drag her out of Downing St kicking and screaming. 

[Kopfkino]

Macron quite happy to throw Ireland under a bus now then. 

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Macron quite happy to throw Ireland under a bus now then. 

As if they ever really cared anyway. Of course they didn't. 

[Alf Bentley]

10 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Well I took her saying she couldn't as PM accept delaying beyond 30th June as her saying she'd resign if it was delayed beyond that. Not the best strategy as it'd be a way to make a long delay more palatable to absolutely everyone. Of course even if May did resign, the removal men would have to drag her out of Downing St kicking and screaming. 

 

Just the other day, she was threatening the ERG with the prospect of a long extension to try to gain their support, wasn't she? My understanding was that she retrenched to the short extension because several Hard Brexit members of her cabinet threatened to resign last night, if she didn't....

 

I agree that she surely cannot last beyond June, though - and that she'll be dragged out kicking and screaming if she hasn't got her deal approved by then, unless some other outcome intervenes.

 

8 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Macron quite happy to throw Ireland under a bus now then. 

 

He might just be posturing for his domestic audience, given his unpopularity, the gilets jaunes, the pending Euro elections, his desire to be the dominant figure in the post-Merkel EU etc.

 

Several commentators have suggested that the EU will agree a short extension, whether that's to 25th May or to 30th June - if only to avoid being blamed for the likely chaos and damage of No Deal.

I cannot imagine that Macron would insist on 29th March unless a number of other EU leaders supported him.

 

That "under the bus" scenario could happen in May/June, though, if the UK has still not approved a resolution to this fiasco.....it cannot just go on indefinitely. What the hell that would mean for Ireland, I don't know. I just hope something vaguely sensible intervenes before then....

[bovril]

17 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Macron quite happy to throw Ireland under a bus now then. 

He'll be getting a call from the head of BMW soon I am sure. 

[Kopfkino]

13 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Just the other day, she was threatening the ERG with the prospect of a long extension to try to gain their support, wasn't she? My understanding was that she retrenched to the short extension because several Hard Brexit members of her cabinet threatened to resign last night, if she didn't....

 

I agree that she surely cannot last beyond June, though - and that she'll be dragged out kicking and screaming if she hasn't got her deal approved by then, unless some other outcome intervenes.

My thought is that if its a long extension, then she resigns and then the Brexiteers have the chance to get their own person in (possible hurdle), win an election (definite hurdle) and bump off Northern Ireland to achieve their Super Canada nonsense.

 

15 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

He might just be posturing for his domestic audience, given his unpopularity, the gilets jaunes, the pending Euro elections, his desire to be the dominant figure in the post-Merkel EU etc.

 

I'm not so sure, as I've said all along whenever anyone has talked about the extension that France was the major obstacle cos they're thoroughly pissed off and fed up with it all and it wouldn't be a surprise if Macron just wanted to get on with it now given the UK has no plan - I'm sure he wouldn't block a delay if it was just to complete the formalities or knowing there would be a deal.He's probably most worried about us revoking A50 so again better to get us gone asap. 

[Alf Bentley]

10 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

My thought is that if its a long extension, then she resigns and then the Brexiteers have the chance to get their own person in (possible hurdle), win an election (definite hurdle) and bump off Northern Ireland to achieve their Super Canada nonsense.

 

 

I'm not so sure, as I've said all along whenever anyone has talked about the extension that France was the major obstacle cos they're thoroughly pissed off and fed up with it all and it wouldn't be a surprise if Macron just wanted to get on with it now given the UK has no plan - I'm sure he wouldn't block a delay if it was just to complete the formalities or knowing there would be a deal.He's probably most worried about us revoking A50 so again better to get us gone asap. 

 

I'm sure she'd go sooner rather than later if a long extension ensued - and there's a logic to the rest of your thesis. But would the EU agree a long extension now? She's only asked for a short one, for now at least.

Would they want us taking part in the Euro elections, the issue of Brexit featuring in their domestic campaigns, the possibility of the UK intervening in future EU plans and arrangement of the next long-term EU budget?

 

I cannot imagine the EU accepting a long extension unless a definite solution was in the offing - and one that would suit the EU (e.g. parliamentary support for Soft Brexit or second referendum).

 

There's a logic to what you say about Macron fearing that Article 50 might be revoked, too. If a short extension is agreed, there is still no resolution and it's too late for the UK to get a longer extension due to the Euro elections, we could end up choosing between No Deal and Revoking Article 50. But I'd have thought that some other EU nations (e.g. Ireland, Germany, Netherlands) would be keen to allow a short extension....wouldn't make for good future relations if Macron ignored them, even if France or any other nation can veto any extension single-handed....

[Voll Blau]

 

[WigstonWanderer]

19 hours ago, MattP said:

The Police force in this country are getting stranger and stranger.

 

If true this is positively Orwellian

[Kopfkino]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

I'm sure she'd go sooner rather than later if a long extension ensued - and there's a logic to the rest of your thesis. But would the EU agree a long extension now? She's only asked for a short one, for now at least.

Would they want us taking part in the Euro elections, the issue of Brexit featuring in their domestic campaigns, the possibility of the UK intervening in future EU plans and arrangement of the next long-term EU budget?

 

I cannot imagine the EU accepting a long extension unless a definite solution was in the offing - and one that would suit the EU (e.g. parliamentary support for Soft Brexit or second referendum).

 

Well there is talk that they'd seek to impose some conditions on us in the case of a long extension so we cant intervene on future plans and budget. The EU doesnt really want a short extension as its just more can kicking with a much more abrupt cliff-edge come June as extension might not be an option if we don't hold elections (scenes when we then revoke A50 and then any decisions passed by EU Parliament become illegitimate). It doesn't want no deal obviously so it would surely agree a long extension and hope that something changes - well it would have to/surely then parliament would pass a no confidence vote??????

 

14 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

There's a logic to what you say about Macron fearing that Article 50 might be revoked, too. If a short extension is agreed, there is still no resolution and it's too late for the UK to get a longer extension due to the Euro elections, we could end up choosing between No Deal and Revoking Article 50. But I'd have thought that some other EU nations (e.g. Ireland, Germany, Netherlands) would be keen to allow a short extension....wouldn't make for good future relations if Macron ignored them, even if France or any other nation can veto any extension single-handed....

I should say it wouldn't surprise me rather than I expect he would veto it. He likely won't block it - it would use serious amounts of political capital because he doesn't really personally have any big allies within the EU. If he did have a couple of allies to call upon that I'm not aware of then it would be entirely possible - though would they want to expend that political capital anyway. We have to remember there's a sizeable chunk of EU countries that aren't overly bothered by Brexit, they'll go with majority view or can Macron twist some arms. He just wants us gone.