Maguire to Man Utd / Man City

[Babylon]

11 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

usually it doesnt work.  squad stability is very important.  Sadly tho I think king power are no longer willing to pump money in, our last profit was about a million and we have a players we need to fund and a huge debt for development work.

 

I agree with you tho, for the most part selling players with the idea that you can buy replacements willy nilly that are suitable is fantasy for the most part, you could sell a gem for say 60 million and buy say 5 players for 20 million each, one is a good buy, the other 4 dude, so you spent 100 million to replace a player you sold for 60 and have 4 extra players on the wage bill trying to find that one good replacement.

Some players are more easily replaced than others. With respect to Harry, he doesn't fall anywhere close to being in the level of Mahrez or Kante to replace. 

[Chrysalis]

29 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You are right in a way, but Maguire was already being talked about in wanting to leave after just a season. Now we could refuse bids all summer, even from Man City and force him to stay but eventually he's either going or his form will drop that much that he's no longer wanted by the very best. Obviously we could get top 6, maybe even top 4 with him and keep the wolf from the door but ultimately if Man City want him, he is going. This is why we sign players in their late teens, early twenties because you get a few more years out of them before they want to leave but Maguire is now 26 and I don't think he'd be content to stay here much longer if the elite are sniffing.

 

There's no guarantees that we will spend the money wisely but there's no guarantees we will spend the money we currently have very wisely and we need to improve a few areas of the team. Central defence is probably our most secure area right now and Maguire had a very ordinary season for us, it feels like it wouldn't be the end of the world if he were to leave. Losing Chilwell however instead or as well as would feel much more of a worry.

 

I agree he is the one to lose over the others.  I have already accepted that.  I was just trying to address how chilled out everyone is over just selling players willy nilly as if its easy to replace them.

 

I think the only area we need to address is our forward play.  So its signing tielemans (or someone else if we dont get him), and a backup striker for vardy, the rest comes from coaching.  This team mostly is good enough to challenge for top 6, its been bad approaches to games that dropped us points last season.

[Ted Maul]

1 hour ago, floz said:

Disturbing number of people seem happy for Harry to be sold. To break into the top 6 you keep your best players and add to them. Or you become Southampton.  

As long as it's only 1 player per season and we're reinvesting the money on quality additions, then it's no issue.

 

Look at last summer- we sold Mahrez, brought in Maddison, Ricardo and Evans for the first team and still had change to bring in a couple of the best young CB prospects in Europe- we're in a far stronger position for it.

 

You're right about us not wanting to do a Southampton, but they sold 2 or 3 a season and stopped investing properly. If we essentially swap Maguire for Tielemans and a first 11 standard winger, we keep moving forward in my view.

[turtmcfly]

8 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

we already have the players, the advancement at this point is coaching and tactics.

 

The only positions lacking is probably the fact tielemans needs signing and another striker.  Those could be funded from a combination of king power and selling, loaning out fringe players.

 

Selling your best player's and rolling the dice in the market can weaken as much as strengthen and actually probably is based on our track record more likely to weaken.

 

6 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

That should be the condition of his sale from the clubs point of view, try and sign tielemans, if successful sell maguire to get the money back, (as it looks like king power is no longer willing to invest), but if we cannot buy him then keep maguire.

 

the idea that one should just sell whenever is a big offer and can easy plug the gap is fantasy land.

 

The irony of your sig...

[Gerard]

16 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

I get no club wants to lose their best players and Maguire is clearly one of those.  However, given the strength in depth you guys have at the back and the astronomical fees that are being quoted for Maguire would it not be perceived as a calculated sacrifice to strengthen other areas of the side?  Would be far easier to replace than someone like Chilwell for example.

 

For clubs like ours and Celtic for that matter who are not at the top of the food chain there is a lot to be said for selling players who have reached their peak value. Any player who the market considers worth £70m don't want to stay at Leicester too long anyway.

 

26yo old is about the cut off point of buying a player for peak value at a non elite club. I'm happy for Maguire to be here next season but I'd also like to see room for Soyuncu and Benkovic to compete for a place in the team. Those pair cost us £30m last season so if by the end of next season neither have had significant game time for two years despite having a reputation of being two of the best young CB's in Europe then they will have stagnated here. With no European football and a fit Maguire and Evans then it will be another season wasted for them. 

 

 

Edited 20 May 2019 by Gerard

[Chrysalis]

5 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Do we? We're already 14 points behind a dreadful united team who will just go out and spend another £200m. You can say we'll get more points from coaching, and I'm hopeful we will... but Puel got more points against the teams Rodgers faced than Rodgers actually did. So I'm not sure it's going to see a 14 point swing to even get close to Man U. 

 

The wingers are failing to produce so we're likely to need more and the fringe players aren't worth much at all. And, as yet Kingpower haven't shown willing to fund anything in the last 6 years (not a criticism), so we'll see on that one. 

We have seen in a fair few games the team is capable, the issue is consistency, you resolve that with good coaching.

 

Just turning over players again and again aggressively is not the answer, especially if you need to sell your best players to do it.

[Chrysalis]

2 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

 

The irony of your sig...

I say could be, but wont be,

 

It would help if you understood my sig.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

7 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

For clubs like ours and Celtic for that matter who are not at the top of the food chain there is a lot to be said for selling players who have reached their peak value. Any player who the market considers worth £70m don't want to stay at Leicester too long anyway.

 

26yo old is about the cut off point of buying a player for peak value at a non elite club. I'm happy for Maguire to be hear next season but I'd also like to see room for Soyuncu and Benkovic to compete for a place in the team. Those pair cost us £30m last season so if by the end of next season neither have had significant game time for two years despite having a reputation of being two of the best young CB's in Europe then they will have stagnated here. With no European football and a fit Maguire and Evans then it will be another season wasted for them. 

 

 

Couldn't agree with this more, as well as we've worked the transfer market in recent years there have been occasions we've been too sentimental and not been ruthless enough to sell players at their peak and re-invest.  One's that spring to mind are Boruc, Bitton and more recently last summer where we could have got a combined £20m+ for Ntcham and Boyata, one of which has now left for free and the other has had a poor season and diminished value as a result.

 

I've not seen much of Soyuncu but I know a lot about Benkovic and am quite honestly flabergasted at Rodgers' comments on perhaps sending him out on loan again next year, Rodgers of all people.  If he ends up back at Celtic Park I won't grumble obviously tho lol!

Edited 20 May 2019 by henrik_62

[Chrysalis]

8 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

As long as it's only 1 player per season and we're reinvesting the money on quality additions, then it's no issue.

 

Look at last summer- we sold Mahrez, brought in Maddison, Ricardo and Evans for the first team and still had change to bring in a couple of the best young CB prospects in Europe- we're in a far stronger position for it.

 

You're right about us not wanting to do a Southampton, but they sold 2 or 3 a season and stopped investing properly. If we essentially swap Maguire for Tielemans and a first 11 standard winger, we keep moving forward in my view.

 

The main issue I have is you seem to think we invest properly, we have spent just as much on dross as we have on quality, so the "and we're reinvesting the money on quality additions" is flawed, because we will be buying dross to find the quality.

[Ted Maul]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

 

The main issue I have is you seem to think we invest properly, we have spent just as much on dross as we have on quality, so the "and we're reinvesting the money on quality additions" is flawed, because we will be buying dross to find the quality.

That's up to us to get our scouting right- we managed it last summer and Mahrez was much more difficult to replace than Maguire would be.

[StriderHiryu]

1 minute ago, Crispin LA said:

I haven't been to the King Power to see Leicester play, so what I've seen on Maguire is what I see on TV. 

What do you guys who watch the matches at the stadium think of his season, work ethic, gameplay and attitude on the pitch? 

Maguire is a positive character on the pitch. Hard working, doesn't give up easily. Attitude is pretty good for the most part though he does hang his head a bit when he makes a mistake. He's not a commanding centre back but more of a support one, so I'm not sure he's captain material in that sense.

 

Off the ball in an attacking sense he's good, makes himself available and good at reading where to be to help out teammates. Defensively off the ball though he's suspect. I've seen a number of times him being the last man to step up when running the offside trap or being in the wrong position in the build up to an attack, which puts him in trouble. These are moments not caught on TV, but trust me, these incidents are not isolated. Honestly for all the criticism Wes Morgan was getting earlier in the season, whenever I've watched the team it was Morgan who was always in the right position defensively and leading Maguire. Now it's the same but with Evans. I think all of this can be improved, but it's why IMO Maguire is nowhere near the Van Dijk level just yet. Overall Maguire reminds me a lot of Rio Ferdinand when he was at Leeds. He's got the ingredients and just needs to be polished up. With Ferdinand, he got put next to Vidic and the two became arguably the best centre half partnership in Premier League history with 5 titles won and a Champions League. 

 

I think he's a dangerous signing for Man U though, unless they also sign Koulibally. Lindeloff is decent but not a commanding type of player.

 

 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

 

The main issue I have is you seem to think we invest properly, we have spent just as much on dross as we have on quality, so the "and we're reinvesting the money on quality additions" is flawed, because we will be buying dross to find the quality.

In today's market particularly the cash rich EPL your going to end up with a lot of dross with a buy low sell higher model unfortunately,  that's just the way it is.  It's the same at Celtic at a relatively lesser level, for every gem we unearth there are two or three who come in who aren't even good enough to play in our first team.  

 

I guess the trick with the buy low and sell high model for clubs in the middle to lower end of the food chain is that over the piece you get more right than wrong in terms of net income.  I'd say as a club, looking at Leicester and the assets worth decent money you have in the squad at present, guys like Maguire, Chilwell, Ricardo, Ndidi, Maddison will more than offset the cost of any duds you have signed, as painful as it's been to see money wasted on guys like Slimani, Silva, Musa, etc.

[turtmcfly]

4 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

In today's market particularly the cash rich EPL your going to end up with a lot of dross with a buy low sell higher model unfortunately,  that's just the way it is.  It's the same at Celtic at a relatively lesser level, for every gem we unearth there are two or three who come in who aren't even good enough to play in our first team.  

 

I guess the trick with the buy low and sell high model for clubs in the middle to lower end of the food chain is that over the piece you get more right than wrong in terms of net income.  I'd say as a club, looking at Leicester and the assets worth decent money you have in the squad at present, guys like Maguire, Chilwell, Ricardo, Ndidi, Maddison will more than offset the cost of any duds you have signed, as painful as it's been to see money wasted on guys like Slimani, Silva, Musa, etc.

 

...and if you look at recent transfer activity, the picture's looks much brighter. I'm almost minded to put forward the idea that the club looked at what went wrong in the Slimani/Musa period and learned from it. Maybe I'll wait 'til Christmas...

[lcfc sheff]

I personally think it’ll be incredible business from the club to sell him for £60m, I’m not sure we’d be any worse off unlike when we sold Mahrez. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, lcfc sheff said:

I personally think it’ll be incredible business from the club to sell him for £60m, I’m not sure we’d be any worse off unlike when we sold Mahrez. 

How much worse did we do last season?

 

Seems we've upgraded on Mahrez and we ALREADY have the upgrades on Maguire. Money for other areas or king power's pockets.

[Babylon]

31 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

We have seen in a fair few games the team is capable, the issue is consistency, you resolve that with good coaching.

The difference between the best players and the rest is their consistency, I fear not just coaching can fix that. We're still very young, so you have the room for growth there thankfully.

[Bluearmyfox28]

47 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

I get no club wants to lose their best players and Maguire is clearly one of those.  However, given the strength in depth you guys have at the back and the astronomical fees that are being quoted for Maguire would it not be perceived as a calculated sacrifice to strengthen other areas of the side?  Would be far easier to replace than someone like Chilwell for example.

I think the majority of us agree with you to be honest, however many on here think that automatically means we don’t want him. Which obviously isn’t the case at all. However I do think we will need a replacement if Harry goes as just don’t think Benko or Soyuncu are quite ready yet. 

 

I stated in another thread that Jonathan Tah at Leverkusen has a release clause in his contract for £25m. If we are to sell Big H for £70m & sign Tah that gives you a great replacement & £45m in profit which potentially can be used to bring Youri in on a permanent deal.

 

The Likelihood then is you’ve got Harry’s replacement, signed Youri & still left with £5m in profit. Then you need a back up striker, a winger or 2, another number 8 & a right back. 

 

I know it’s far from that easy but my point is the funds available from Maguire will make a huge difference to the summer spending we have.

Edited 20 May 2019 by Bluearmyfox28

[Bluearmyfox28]

58 minutes ago, FIF said:

Every club sells players.

Exactly, everyone’s going on like we are just throwing the towel in... not at all. Even Liverpool lost Coutinho last year & Man U are likely to lose Pogba this year. That’s football for you.

[Guest]

Just now, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Exactly, everyone’s going on like we are just throwing the towel in... not at all. Even Liverpool lost Coutinho last year & Man U are likely to lose Pogba this year. That’s football for you.

And Kompany just walked out on the greatest team to ever play football quadruple guaranteed.

[Bluearmyfox28]

53 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

usually it doesnt work.  squad stability is very important.  Sadly tho I think king power are no longer willing to pump money in, our last profit was about a million and we have a players we need to fund and a huge debt for development work.

 

I agree with you tho, for the most part selling players with the idea that you can buy replacements willy nilly that are suitable is fantasy for the most part, you could sell a gem for say 60 million and buy say 5 players for 20 million each, one is a good buy, the other 4 dude, so you spent 100 million to replace a player you sold for 60 and have 4 extra players on the wage bill trying to find that one good replacement.

Can I ask why you think that when every person I’ve seen with inside knowledge is claiming we are going to spend big this summer? On top of the plans for the training ground? N yes I know the training ground was given on loans but if all goes wrong it comes out the owners pocket & they’re willing to take that hit. 

[Bert]

By the way, the club don’t want to sell him. So if he goes he’s forced the move. 

[Tanya]

@Bert if we don't sell him, how will we afford Youri? 

[Bluearmyfox28]

36 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Couldn't agree with this more, as well as we've worked the transfer market in recent years there have been occasions we've been too sentimental and not been ruthless enough to sell players at their peak and re-invest.  One's that spring to mind are Boruc, Bitton and more recently last summer where we could have got a combined £20m+ for Ntcham and Boyata, one of which has now left for free and the other has had a poor season and diminished value as a result.

 

I've not seen much of Soyuncu but I know a lot about Benkovic and am quite honestly flabergasted at Rodgers' comments on perhaps sending him out on loan again next year, Rodgers of all people.  If he ends up back at Celtic Park I won't grumble obviously tho lol!

Would you honestly say Benko is that good?

[Bluearmyfox28]

8 minutes ago, Tanya said:

@Bert if we don't sell him, how will we afford Youri? 

How poor do you think we are?  We can easily spend £100m & not be affected by FFP. We are going to spend big this summer, it’s evident. Selling some like Harry will help us invest in better quality elsewhere on the pitch yes. However selling Harry hasn’t got anything to do with getting Youri specifically.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Bert said:

By the way, the club don’t want to sell him. So if he goes he’s forced the move. 

 

I'm sure you're right, but isn't that the fact for any of our decent players. Just like Mahrez, if he wants to go, he'll force a move.