Cricket 2019

[everton carr]

5 hours ago, Corky said:

Anyone watching the T20 qualifiers? Holland v Bermuda in front of about 12 people in what looks like a 40k stadium.

 

Colin Ackermann playing for the Dutch, HD Ackermann on commentary.

Actually about 400 there but agree looks ridiculous in a ground that big  2 more ex foxes Nobby O Brien and Preston Mohamson also on comms.Some useful players on view  hope the Country  are looking at a few would come pretty cheap

[Voll Blau]

2 hours ago, everton carr said:

Actually about 400 there but agree looks ridiculous in a ground that big  2 more ex foxes Nobby O Brien and Preston Mohamson also on comms.Some useful players on view  hope the Country  are looking at a few would come pretty cheap

Liked the look of the Namibian skipper, even if Singapore were comical bowling and fielding.

[CosbehFox]

Papua New Guinea qualified alongside Ireland for T20 World Cup

[Bobby Hundreds]

Shakib Al Hasan has been banned for a year and one year suspended for failing to report an approach for corruption. Number one ODI player in the world, what a daft bugger. 

 

 

[StanSP]

48 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Shakib Al Hasan has been banned for a year and one year suspended for failing to report an approach for corruption. Number one ODI player in the world, what a daft bugger. 

 

 

Just came in to post this. Big news given his improved ratings over the past few years. Wonder how many other approaches have been made to other players, even of other countries, that haven't been reported. 

[UniFox21]

10 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Just came in to post this. Big news given his improved ratings over the past few years. Wonder how many other approaches have been made to other players, even of other countries, that haven't been reported. 

Just don't understand why you wouldn't report it? 

[Izzy]

Delighted that Darren Gough has been asked to be involved in the England set up as fast bowling coach.

I listen to him a lot on Talk Sport and he’s said numerous times he’s available and would do it for free. 
He’s got a lot to offer and I bet he’ll be great with the players. Good appointment imo

[StanSP]

Wish him all the best. Hope the place he is in is not too serious and he can come back because he is a fine cricketer. 

 

 

[Osavo]

19 hours ago, Izzy said:

Delighted that Darren Gough has been asked to be involved in the England set up as fast bowling coach.

I listen to him a lot on Talk Sport and he’s said numerous times he’s available and would do it for free. 
He’s got a lot to offer and I bet he’ll be great with the players. Good appointment imo

Agreed. Speaks very well about the game in my experience.

 

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/11006221/darren-gough-masterclass

 

This masterclass is an excellent insight into his fast bowling expertise.

[Voll Blau]

Quote

A change of heart at the ECB could see the County Championship - rather than the One-Day Cup - played at the same time as the Hundred from 2021.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27980519/championship-played-alongside-hundred-giles

 

Reckon I might just give up on following England. The ECB clearly don't care about producing cricketers capable of playing in any format other than the one which no-one else plays.

[Guest MattP]

A biological male wins the Kent "women's cricketer of the year" award.

 

 

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

A biological male wins the Kent "women's cricketer of the year" award.

 

 

 

 

In the eyes of the law, the NHS, her team-mates and the sport's governing body she's a female. So what's the problem?

Edited 5 November 2019 by Voll Blau

[UniFox21]

6 minutes ago, MattP said:

A biological male wins the Kent "women's cricketer of the year" award.

 

 

This is an issue that occurs a bit in sport of late; sooner or later there's gonna be a decision on how sport 'feels' on transgender, particularly Male to Female. In a sense it's unfair in many circumstances to biologically born females due to the lower testosterone levels amongst various other biological factors. Its also unfair to turn round to a transgender person and say they can't compete so something needs to be sorted. Two examples are the transgender cyclist who smashed the womens pursuit record and another who broke the weightlifting record. 

Also ironic given a biological female with high testosterone isn't allowed to compete (Caster Semenya) but transgender athletes with a higher testosterone level are free to compete, that isn't right for me. But its an issue that needs to be tackled sooner rather than later.

Edited 5 November 2019 by UniFox21

[Guest MattP]

13 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 

 

In the eyes of the law, the NHS, her team-mates and the sport's governing body she's a female. So what's the problem?

She's a man, that's the problem. There is a reason why no woman has ever put these sort of numbers up before.

 

Just imagine if Jofra Archer decided he was a woman tomorrow, would you not at least have some trepidation about sending your daughter out to face him bowl?

 

What sort of message is this sending to female athletes as well? Become the best in the World but you still won't be good enough as an average guy can just come in and blow you out the water?

 

We can all laugh about this but it's also seriously dangerous.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

She's a man, that's the problem. There is a reason why no woman has ever put these sort of numbers up before.

 

Just imagine if Jofra Archer decided he was a woman tomorrow, would you not at least have some trepidation about sending your daughter out to face him bowl?

 

What sort of message is this sending to female athletes as well? Become the best in the World but you still won't be good enough as an average guy can just come in and blow you out the water?

 

We can all laugh about this but it's also seriously dangerous.

 

If Jofra Archer decided he was a woman tomorrow he'd have to go through a minimum of two years of living as a woman before he could undergo a physical operation, therapy and all sorts of emotional trauma that goes with the condition. I'm not being funny, but he'd do fvcking well to still be bowling at his current pace after going through that.

 

As I say, if the law, NHS, the sport's governing body and - most importantly - her team-mates are happy Maxine Blythin is a female, then that should be good enough for the rest of us on this occasion.

 

The issue of transgender rights and transgender people in sport is a complex one to which there's no easy answer - and simply declaring "she's a man" because she was born one isn't go to help resolve that.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Voll Blau said:

 

If Jofra Archer decided he was a woman tomorrow he'd have to go through a minimum of two years of living as a woman before he could undergo a physical operation, therapy and all sorts of emotional trauma that goes with the condition. I'm not being funny, but he'd do fvcking well to still be bowling at his current pace after going through that.

 

As I say, if the law, NHS, the sport's governing body and - most importantly - her team-mates are happy Maxine Blythin is a female, then that should be good enough for the rest of us on this occasion.

 

The issue of transgender rights and transgender people in sport is a complex one to which there's no easy answer - and simply declaring "she's a man" because she was born one isn't go to help resolve that.

He wouldn't - if he wanted to play women's cricket he could tomorrow, they are only testing if they play at international level - https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/transgender-cricketer-maxine-blythin-creates-storm-in-england/news-story/023df5466664684c2d03eebddd3b35de

 

What about her opponents? If they aren't happy with it what role do they play?

 

There needs to be a very serious discussion about this very quickly, women's sport has to survive, it can't just end up being a dumping ground for men who weren't good enough to make it to the top level amongst their own. 

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

He wouldn't - if he wanted to play women's cricket he could tomorrow, they are only testing if they play at international level - https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/transgender-cricketer-maxine-blythin-creates-storm-in-england/news-story/023df5466664684c2d03eebddd3b35de

 

What about her opponents? If they aren't happy with it what role do they play?

 

There needs to be a very serious discussion about this very quickly, women's sport has to survive, it can't just end up being a dumping ground for men who weren't good enough to make it to the top level amongst their own. 

It's not just international level, it's England pathway teams (such as Kent) too. Candidates for that level of cricket have to write to the ECB's head of policy and provide relevant evidence (presumably including references from GP, medical specialists etc) to support their application for wanting to play women's cricket at a decent level, and then meet said ECB official in person before being given written clearance.

 

https://platform-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/ecb/document/2019/04/26/3bb659af-9a7d-4ffa-810d-7fae32959ee6/Non-First-Class-ECB-Regulations-Transgender-2019.pdf

 

As for club cricket. Are you seriously trying to tell me a women's team would actually pick Jofra Archer if he rocked up tomorrow claiming, out of the blue, to be a woman?

 

There's zero chance of women's amateur sport becoming a dumping ground for blokes trying to play at a higher level than they can in male sport because, as you can see above, there's a level at which they would simply be stopped unless they had good supporting evidence for why they should be allowed to play women's cricket.

 

As for anyone willing to pretend to be going through such a life-altering process in order to boast they average a ton with the bat at amateur level? Well, shame on them. But how many people are sociopathically dedicated enough to their batting stats to actually be willing to fraudulently claim to be undergoing said process - which will affect their professional, personal, social and family life to such a life-changing degree - to actually believe that's worthwhile?

[Guest MattP]

32 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

It's not just international level, it's England pathway teams (such as Kent) too. Candidates for that level of cricket have to write to the ECB's head of policy and provide relevant evidence (presumably including references from GP, medical specialists etc) to support their application for wanting to play women's cricket at a decent level, and then meet said ECB official in person before being given written clearance.

 

https://platform-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/ecb/document/2019/04/26/3bb659af-9a7d-4ffa-810d-7fae32959ee6/Non-First-Class-ECB-Regulations-Transgender-2019.pdf

 

As for club cricket. Are you seriously trying to tell me a women's team would actually pick Jofra Archer if he rocked up tomorrow claiming, out of the blue, to be a woman?

 

There's zero chance of women's amateur sport becoming a dumping ground for blokes trying to play at a higher level than they can in male sport because, as you can see above, there's a level at which they would simply be stopped unless they had good supporting evidence for why they should be allowed to play women's cricket.

 

As for anyone willing to pretend to be going through such a life-altering process in order to boast they average a ton with the bat at amateur level? Well, shame on them. But how many people are sociopathically dedicated enough to their batting stats to actually be willing to fraudulently claim to be undergoing said process - which will affect their professional, personal, social and family life to such a life-changing degree - to actually believe that's worthwhile?

At this point in time, I'd say it's unlikely - but I'd say it gets more and more possible as time goes om, even more so as the financial rewards get better and better in the womens game. Even if you are right though and we have to adhere tp all this, what are we going to do about it? Just let it happen? There is a reason why women play with a smaller ball and a shorter boundaries.

 

This guy averages cricket numbers that no biological female is going be able to achieve, are we seriously going to just stand back and watch women born as men win these awards every year because we have to accept their right to identity as a woman over a fair playing field for all?

 

Why would anyone encourage their children into womens sport if the end result of it means them just being outclassed by someone who has such an unfair advantage over them?

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

At this point in time, I'd say it's unlikely - but I'd say it gets more and more possible as time goes om, even more so as the financial rewards get better and better in the womens game. Even if you are right though and we have to adhere tp all this, what are we going to do about it? Just let it happen? There is a reason why women play with a smaller ball and a shorter boundaries.

 

This guy averages cricket numbers that no biological female is going be able to achieve, are we seriously going to just stand back and watch women born as men win these awards every year because we have to accept their right to identity as a woman over a fair playing field for all?

 

Why would anyone encourage their children into womens sport if the end result of it means them just being outclassed by someone who has such an unfair advantage over them?

So what's the alternative then? Do you bar people from continuing to play a sport they love, after going through such a life-changing decision and process, for being born with a physical advantage they wish they'd never been born with - just because there's a miniscule chance they're a complete psychopath who's faking it and has turned their own life upside down for the sake of their play-cricket stats?

 

As I say, and the ECB guidelines state, they simply would not accept any transgender athlete being allowed to play above recreational level, i.e. have any chance of making financial gain out of it, unless they could provide good evidence (presumably medical and psychological) in terms of how their transition from man to woman is progressing or has been completed.

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, MattP said:

At this point in time, I'd say it's unlikely - but I'd say it gets more and more possible as time goes om, even more so as the financial rewards get better and better in the womens game. Even if you are right though and we have to adhere tp all this, what are we going to do about it? Just let it happen? There is a reason why women play with a smaller ball and a shorter boundaries.

 

This guy averages cricket numbers that no biological female is going be able to achieve, are we seriously going to just stand back and watch women born as men win these awards every year because we have to accept their right to identity as a woman over a fair playing field for all?

 

Why would anyone encourage their children into womens sport if the end result of it means them just being outclassed by someone who has such an unfair advantage over them?

It really doesn't.

 

The financial benefits would have to be top-level Prem standard to even come close to warranting the physical and emotional trauma that trans athletes and trans people in general have to go through during the course of their transitioning. To say nothing of the judgement from the sidelines of gender essentialists seeking to make a marginalised group still more so - such as yourself, Matt.

 

To be honest, I'd be happy to divide sporting events along hormone level lines rather than the gender binary at some point in the future anyway.

 

6 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

So what's the alternative then? Do you bar people from continuing to play a sport they love, after going through such a life-changing decision and process, for being born with a physical advantage they wish they'd never been born with - just because there's a miniscule chance they're a complete psychopath who's faking it and has turned their own life upside down for the sake of their play-cricket stats?

 

As I say, and the ECB guidelines state, they simply would not accept any transgender athlete being allowed to play above recreational level, i.e. have any chance of making financial gain out of it, unless they could provide good evidence (presumably medical and psychological) in terms of how their transition from man to woman is progressing or has been completed.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a hobby horse.

[Guest MattP]

10 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

So what's the alternative then? Do you bar people from continuing to play a sport they love, after going through such a life-changing decision and process, for being born with a physical advantage they wish they'd never been born with - just because there's a miniscule chance they're a complete psychopath who's faking it and has turned their own life upside down for the sake of their play-cricket stats?

 

As I say, and the ECB guidelines state, they simply would not accept any transgender athlete being allowed to play above recreational level, i.e. have any chance of making financial gain out of it, unless they could provide good evidence (presumably medical and psychological) in terms of how their transition from man to woman is progressing or has been completed.

Well you have to say it isn't fair - it's pretty much as simple as that, yes people will probably get upset, but I can promise you many more will be upset when a whole section of womens sport turns into a total farce as men are now playing it.

 

The weird thing is at International level they clearly know it's unfair as they enforce rules to stop it - why should women playing a lower standard have to put up with this just because there is no mass audience on them?

 

Would you let biological males into the boxing ring with woman as well? How far do we take this?

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

To say nothing of the judgement from the sidelines of gender essentialists seeking to make a marginalised group still more so - such as yourself, Matt.

 

To be honest, I'd be happy to divide sporting events along hormone level lines rather than the gender binary at some point in the future anyway.

 

Don't let the facts get in the way of a hobby horse.

Stop being so childish, this is about fairness - nothing to do with marginalisation. 

 

You can't have a scenario where women are playing at a level of competitive cricket and then men just arrive into it and start averaging double the numbers they do.

 

It's not even serious and you'll destroy women's sport long term, if you don't think it can happen at the top level the warning of Renee Richards is already there.

 

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Stop being so childish, this is about fairness - nothing to do with marginalisation. 

 

You can't have a scenario where women are playing at a level of competitive cricket and then men just arrive into it and start averaging double the numbers they do.

 

It's not even serious and you'll destroy women's sport long term, if you don't think it can happen at the top level the warning of Renee Richards is already there.

TBF to Renee Richards - she now appears to have changed her opinion - I didn't know that. (According to Wiki anyway)

 

Richards has since expressed ambivalence about her legacy, and came to believe her past as a man provided her with advantages over her competitors, saying "Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I'd had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I've reconsidered my opinion

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Stop being so childish, this is about fairness - nothing to do with marginalisation. 

 

You can't have a scenario where women are playing at a level of competitive cricket and then men just arrive into it and start averaging double the numbers they do.

 

It's not even serious and you'll destroy women's sport long term, if you don't think it can happen at the top level the warning of Renee Richards is already there.

 

Sorry Matt, but I wasn't the one who came in calling a trans woman a "biological male" (that term takes a bit of defining) and started all this off. As you say to VB above, you do basically infer that trans women should be shut out of most levels of sport entirely on the grounds that it would be unfair to their fellow competitors - as well-meaning as that may or may not be, how is that not marginalisation?

 

I actually share your concerns wrt sporting categories as they exist now - hence my suggestion for reclassification based on hormone levels rather than strict gender binary which is only going to exclude people for seemingly only the sake of maintaining an archaic system.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Well you have to say it isn't fair - it's pretty much as simple as that, yes people will probably get upset, but I can promise you many more will be upset when a whole section of womens sport turns into a total farce as men are now playing it.

 

The weird thing is at International level they clearly know it's unfair as they enforce rules to stop it - why should women playing a lower standard have to put up with this just because there is no mass audience on them?

 

Would you let biological males into the boxing ring with woman as well? How far do we take this?

 

Lots of things in life aren't fair though, like being born into the wrong body. I'm glad it's something I'll never have to experience. Come on, your really think blokes are going to start turning up en masse to slog women out of the park in club games because they think they can get away with it? Get real.

 

Are women at a lower standard "putting up with it"? Because the criticism in that article you linked wasn't coming from any cricketers and the photos of her with her team-mates show them all looking pretty happy. And I don't think the ECB's rules re trangender people and pro cricket have been drawn up because they know it's "unfair" on a physical level. To me it just seems they're trying to stop anyone pulling a fast one to gain financial advantage - a situation you're clearly worried about - without due process being carried out to make sure they genuinely live with the condition and aren't seeking to defraud the sport.

 

Would I let someone who was born male into a boxing ring with a woman? Well, that's not my call is it? There are people in the medical and boxing worlds far better placed to carry out due process on those decisions and make those judgments than you or I are.