Premier League Thread 2019/20

[Foxin_Mad]

I think the BAME issue is a bit of a red herring to be honest.

 

Without getting in to the whys etc. Its statistically likely more BAME people in generally society are from deprived unprivilledged backgrounds, have low paid front line jobs that make them more susceptible and likely to be subject to high viral loads. They literally have a decision, like many of going to work and providing a roof and food for their family or nothing, so they have to go in.

 

Really he should be looking at how this affects healthy, young rich BAME people with access to top class private facilities and unlimited paid for testing. I would expect the evidence suggests it doesnt.

 

Of course he can base his decision on whatever he wants. He has to then accept to be furloughed immediately, and if he wont play by October (the situation will be worse by then), he will have be made redundant like everyone else in that position.

[Stuntman_Mike]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

Only Troy can answer that.

 

I don't have care how much they earn or how much anyone earns or whether they work or not.

 

I also respect his decision to make the best choice for his family, the issue I have is the exception that his employer should pay him in full if he refuses to work. 

 

As long as they are willing to accept taking unpaid leave or being furlonged its all good. 

 

No it doesn't but its better then what NHS workers have been offered 

So you have a problem with his club having the riches to pay him if he doesn't go in because he wants to protect his family, if that is what they agree, but you don't have a problem with his club having the richest to test their players weekly when people like me and you who work for the NHS get zero tests? 

 

If you don't care about wages then it shouldn't matter what their employer agrees with them.

 

 

[Foxin_Mad]

11 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

 

 

Of course NHS staff should be expected to work, I work for the NHS too and have been. NHS staff are needed, is football needed? I don't care what they earn.

 

 

Its debatable. Obviously NHS, shop workers etc are needed more urgently to survive but society  needs the other leisure/entertainment  jobs/roles to thrive.

 

The staff (players) of any business are needed if that business (club) is to have any sustainability and viability in the future. There is only so long businesses can exist without income, there is only so long the government can give free money. The virus wont go until (if) a vaccine is found, what is the end game?

 

I expect if players want full pay and football doesnt restart soon, with no income many clubs will quickly have severe cash flow problems and as such become insolvent.

[StanSP]

On Troy's side here. He's got his morals and we have no idea what he's agreed with Watford when it comes to finances and payments etc. Maybe it's being kept private and under wraps. Us as fans have a undesirable need to want to know every single little thing about a players life when in reality we probably have no right. 

 

If he wants to safeguard his kid, with known illness, then so be it. That's his call. Don't we always say when something tragic happens that 'family comes first' or 'puts things in to perspective doesn't it, football is just a game and family is more important' (or words to that affect).

 

He wants to stay at home and in doing so protect his family. That's his prerogative and maybe Watford, the club who employ him, are fine with that. Whether he gets paid on full whack or not, again is a decision to be made between him and the club. Literally no-one else. He should not be pressured by total strangers like us to feel bad or feel like he's doing wrong for his own sensible choice in this instance. 

 

[weller54]

Just get the Sheffield United v Villa game played then end the season FFS..

Playing the rest isn't worth the risk to player's and other staff's lives!

[Nick]

I don’t blame Troy at all.

 

This was not going to work unless all players agreed to stay in quarantine together away from their loved ones.

 

If I had a kid with a health condition like him - I’d be self isolating from my family if I had to go to work.

[Guest Markyblue]

2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

On Troy's side here. He's got his morals and we have no idea what he's agreed with Watford when it comes to finances and payments etc. Maybe it's being kept private and under wraps. Us as fans have a undesirable need to want to know every single little thing about a players life when in reality we probably have no right. 

 

If he wants to safeguard his kid, with known illness, then so be it. That's his call. Don't we always say when something tragic happens that 'family comes first' or 'puts things in to perspective doesn't it, football is just a game and family is more important' (or words to that affect).

 

He wants to stay at home and in doing so protect his family. That's his prerogative and maybe Watford, the club who employ him, are fine with that. Whether he gets paid on full whack or not, again is a decision to be made between him and the club. Literally no-one else. He should not be pressured by total strangers like us to feel bad or feel like he's doing wrong for his own sensible choice in this instance. 

 

Well its just as well all the bame staff working for the nhs haven't got the same morals, oh yea also all the over 50s and people with health issues who have carried on working without the backup millionaire footballers will receive.  Stick to your morals troy and let others stick to theirs.

[Finnegan]

36 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Through absolutely no coincidence whatsoever Watford are currently 17th and would be using the ppg model too....

 

Yeah I roll my eyes and ignore it when literally any footballer speaks at the moment. 

 

Every single one has an agenda, it's not possible not to be bias when their livelihoods and careers are so valuable. 

 

Norwich want the season cancelled and relegation scrapped, Tottenham want everything wiped off and this seasons champions league teams to have another go next year, we want the season to end on PPG, Sheff Utd and Man Utd probably want to finish the remaining games and push for 4th. 

 

I've not heard a single player come out with a suggestion that's contrary to their club's current situation. 

[Stuntman_Mike]

8 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Its debatable. Obviously NHS, shop workers etc are needed more urgently to survive but society  needs the other leisure/entertainment  jobs/roles to thrive.

 

The staff (players) of any business are needed if that business (club) is to have any sustainability and viability in the future. There is only so long businesses can exist without income, there is only so long the government can give free money. The virus wont go until (if) a vaccine is found, what is the end game?

 

I expect if players want full pay and football doesnt restart soon, with no income many clubs will quickly have severe cash flow problems and as such become insolvent.

I just feel there is an imbalance between the push for football to come back and everything else. 

 

The clubs at risk financially have already suspended their leagues.

 

The prem clubs might take a hit but they're going to be ok long term with TV money.

[filbertway]

Will be curious to see when he returns to playing football. He could realistically be stuck inside with his family for years taking that stance.

[Foxin_Mad]

2 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Just get the Sheffield United v Villa game played then end the season FFS..

Playing the rest isn't worth the risk to player's and other staff's lives!

So how many young athletes have died of covid 19?

 

When do you start playing football again? In the autumn/winter when the NHS is overwhelmed with Flu?

 

Are you willing to accept pretty much all clubs are insolvent, gone forever? All players across the UK lose their jobs, all staff at clubs lose their jobs forever? All because of a risk that doesnt really exist beyond normal flu for young healthy people? Of course protect the vulnerable, those in the age groups and with conditions likely to die, those that chose to make their own personal decisions can remain on furlough until October. Otherwise this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Stuff we love will be gone forever unless we wake up to reality. We might be alive, locked inside but what enjoyment will be left?

[Guest ttfn]

I’m not sure anyone is having a go at Deeney, I think everyone respects and appreciates that it is his decision, as it should be for all players. It is then Watford’s decision whether they pay him. 
 

Players should be educating themselves as to the risk and making their own decisions accordingly. Hopefully in the majority of cases they will realise that the risk posed to them and their families is absolutely minimal and certainly far less than the overwhelming majority of others going back to work after a period of furlough.

[Finnegan]

Genuine question, this is my own ignorance, is covid 19 statistically more dangerous to BME people because they're on average from more vulnerable communities or is there evidence that it's literally, biologically less threatening to Caucasians? 

 

I know some diseases really are more or less threatening to some ethnicities? 

 

If it's the former, though, surely that's not particularly of concern to Troy Deeney with all due respect? He'd get much better healthcare than any of us. 

[StanSP]

10 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Well its just as well all the bame staff working for the nhs haven't got the same morals, oh yea also all the over 50s and people with health issues who have carried on working without the backup millionaire footballers will receive.  Stick to your morals troy and let others stick to theirs.

What? 

[Guest Markyblue]

Just now, StanSP said:

What? 

Can't you read.?

[Foxin_Mad]

2 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

I just feel there is an imbalance between the push for football to come back and everything else. 

 

The clubs at risk financially have already suspended their leagues.

 

The prem clubs might take a hit but they're going to be ok long term with TV money.

I dont see how Leicester for example continue paying Vardy indefinitely, with no income.

 

The TV revenue I presume will be gone. If we are saying it's not safe now in the summer, we write off next season completely as the NHS will be full from autumn onwards, it's a far bigger risk for normal people to restart football then. We hope for a vaccine which may never come.

 

How many clubs will be around to start the 2021/22 season assuming a vaccine is found? I would reckon not many.

 

The smaller clubs are probably safer, most have low turnovers, low revenue and low wages, most are able to furlough all players and staff for now. The premier teams have huge wage bill's of millions a week, no or very little income from hospitality and tickets, Sky wont pay up with no games on as they have paused subscriptions. It wont last much longer. LCFC secured a loan on TV income that might not come.  It's not great.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

Seems completely fair to me.

'I'm not going in' - Troy Deeney

Watford captain Troy Deeney speaking to Eddie Hearn and Tony Bellew on YouTube: "We’re due back in this week - I’ve said I’m not going in.

"It’s nothing to do with financial gain, hand on heart if I was to go into full detail about my personal situation, everyone here would go no problem, I completely understand what you’re saying.

"My problem was in the meeting, I asked very simple questions, for black, Asian and mixed ethnicities - they’re four times more likely to get the illness, they’re twice as likely to have long lasting illnesses - is there anything extra? Additional screening, heart stuff, to see if people have got problems with that? No? Well I feel that should be addressed.

"My son is only five, he had breathing difficulties, so I don’t want to come home to put him in more danger.

"I can’t get a haircut until mid-July but I can go and get in a box with 19 people and go and jump for a header and nobody could answer the questions, not because they didn’t want to, just because they don’t know the information so I said if you don’t know the information, why would I put myself at risk?"

 

 

Absolutely reasonable, especially if his son has had breathing problems. 

[StanSP]

4 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Can't you read.?

Yes. Are you insinuating I don't believe the people you mention have any morals?! 

[Guest Markyblue]

Just now, StanSP said:

Yes. Are you insinuating I don't believe the people you mention have any morals?! 

Of course not, my point is its very easy to be moral when you are a millionaire footballer. 

[Foxin_Mad]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Genuine question, this is my own ignorance, is covid 19 statistically more dangerous to BME people because they're on average from more vulnerable communities or is there evidence that it's literally, biologically less threatening to Caucasians? 

 

I know some diseases really are more or less threatening to some ethnicities? 

 

If it's the former, though, surely that's not particularly of concern to Troy Deeney with all due respect? He'd get much better healthcare than any of us. 

I am not aware of any scientific evidence that BME people are generally more likely to die in exactly equal settings. I dont think there is enough conclusive evidence yet either way.

 

I would be interested to see data. I would doubt it's around ethnicity as in Africa and India deaths have been comparatively very low, so far.

[urban.spaceman]

9 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Genuine question, this is my own ignorance, is covid 19 statistically more dangerous to BME people because they're on average from more vulnerable communities or is there evidence that it's literally, biologically less threatening to Caucasians? 

 

I know some diseases really are more or less threatening to some ethnicities? 

 

If it's the former, though, surely that's not particularly of concern to Troy Deeney with all due respect? He'd get much better healthcare than any of us. 

I've read somewhere that it's because darker skin produces less vitamin D, which boosts the immune system. Of course I'm not an expert so hopefully someone more knowledgable can clarify.

[Super_horns]

23 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Yeah I roll my eyes and ignore it when literally any footballer speaks at the moment. 

 

Every single one has an agenda, it's not possible not to be bias when their livelihoods and careers are so valuable. 

 

Norwich want the season cancelled and relegation scrapped, Tottenham want everything wiped off and this seasons champions league teams to have another go next year, we want the season to end on PPG, Sheff Utd and Man Utd probably want to finish the remaining games and push for 4th. 

 

I've not heard a single player come out with a suggestion that's contrary to their club's current situation. 

That is a fair point but I think Deenry is talking about his own personal situation first rather than trying to get the season cancelled.

 

I think he is the sort of bloke who would say what he has regardless of position.

 

Had it been other members of the squad I'd agree it might seem like a PR effort to delay the season etc.

Edited 19 May 2020 by Super_horns

[StanSP]

6 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Of course not, my point is its very easy to be moral when you are a millionaire footballer. 

Okay but that doesn't take away from the fact like any parent would, he wants to protect his family

[StriderHiryu]

6 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Genuine question, this is my own ignorance, is covid 19 statistically more dangerous to BME people because they're on average from more vulnerable communities or is there evidence that it's literally, biologically less threatening to Caucasians? 

 

I know some diseases really are more or less threatening to some ethnicities? 

 

If it's the former, though, surely that's not particularly of concern to Troy Deeney with all due respect? He'd get much better healthcare than any of us. 

No one really knows just yet because of how new the virus is. There simply isn't enough data. Two factors do seem to heavily contribute to dieing when contracting the virus though - Obesity and Diabetes. So for example, middle aged Indian / sub-continent men often are both of these things due in part to a combination of diet, but also their genetics. For whatever reason, they seem to have a much higher percentage of developing Diabetes to other people, so indirectly they are more vulnerable to Covid-19.

But there isn't enough data out there yet to say that people with specific genetics / genomes are more vulnerable to the base virus. It could of course later transpire that some groups are at higher risk.

 

With regards to vulnerable communities being at more danger, whilst that is factored by living and working conditions, some communities are definitely prepared to take their chances. I live near an area called Green Lanes in London and last Saturday you would not be able to tell the difference between a regular day and a lockdown day. Coffee Shops, Greengrocers, Barbers and Restaurants were open, and people inside were not wearing masks or keeping 2 metres apart. Rather than point the finger, my point is more that if people aren't going to try to enforce the guidance, then the virus will spread more heavily in such communities, as such behavior has been going on round there for weeks now. And whilst this area isn't exactly a luxury area, it's not a complete dump either.

Anyway I don't think I'd blame anyone at the moment for not feeling safe to return to work. This is an unprecedented situation and the response thus far in this country has been poor. 

[Guest Markyblue]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

Okay but that doesn't take away from the fact like any parent would, he wants to protect his family

Of course he would,  i dont know the full extent of his childs illness to comment, my earlier post still applies if he played for liverpool would things be the same or would he find a way around it , thats what im getting at.