England :(

[cruzFOX]

Did anyone watch? Was anyone hopeful going into this game? Anyone suprised by the result? I honestly was quietly confident that if England played like they did last year we could beat this talented but unproven dutch side. We all know how dangerous the young Ajax players were going to be but they still had that useless Depay and Brabel up front. Just mind boggling southgate didn't pick the best players in their best positions. Before Stones's big cockup you could sense England were wobbling in defense. Maguire got mugged early on when trying to let the ball roll out and lets not forget the number of times he went on his trademark runs only to get disposessed. It's like England take risks in areas when they shouldn't and when they do need to take risks they don't. Chillwell was okay but didn't do anything special. Frustrated and disapointed. Great opportunity missed for England. Atleast now I can sit back and watch a good final with a few beers without getting nervous watching England.

[volpeazzurro]

6 hours ago, cruzFOX said:

Did anyone watch? Was anyone hopeful going into this game? Anyone suprised by the result? I honestly was quietly confident that if England played like they did last year we could beat this talented but unproven dutch side. We all know how dangerous the young Ajax players were going to be but they still had that useless Depay and Brabel up front. Just mind boggling southgate didn't pick the best players in their best positions. Before Stones's big cockup you could sense England were wobbling in defense. Maguire got mugged early on when trying to let the ball roll out and lets not forget the number of times he went on his trademark runs only to get disposessed. It's like England take risks in areas when they shouldn't and when they do need to take risks they don't. Chillwell was okay but didn't do anything special. Frustrated and disapointed. Great opportunity missed for England. Atleast now I can sit back and watch a good final with a few beers without getting nervous watching England.

I don't know whether there were any end of season issues with players able or willing to join the squad but that midfield, really? Delph hasn't played since boxing day, why's he even in the squad? Please don't say Southgate is going to have favourites rather than who's best currently on form. It shows the limitations of just the two at the back as even with a poor Dutch attacking line, Stone and Maguire aren't good enough as neither of them are good solid defenders in the traditional sense. In Maguires case, in a two, his cumbersome forays forward are always going to put an extra burden potentially on the defence, with us we've got Evans who,  as pure defender,  is far more solid than the likes of Stone. One of them is good, but both in a two not so. Poor team selection and tactics by Southgate and poor performance by players. I didn't see any £75m English centre halves out there.

[LinekersLugs]

Utter tripe really on and off the pitch 

[LinekersApples]

We weren’t great.

 

It looked confused to me. You can’t play out from the back in international football unless you have a good midfield and someone who plays on the turn. You can’t counter attack unless players are willing to be direct.

 

We didn’t have the midfield and that exposed the defence who were trying to do what they’d been told, and although we did have the attacking flair and speed, far too often, they cut inside or slowed things down.

 

It was a very immature performance. Strange really.

[mozartfox]

Pep will be in for Harry soon after that Stones display.  And people on here continually cast doubts about Soyuncu for a mistake at Fulham and a dodgy penalty at Huddersfield…...

[Muzzy_Larsson]

I really don't understand this insistence on playing from the back constantly, I'm not saying hoof it long all the time but England quite clearly don't have the players to build play from the back, due to a mix of not being good enough technically and too careless.  I don't get why they don't play to their strengths.  The back line was less exposed at the world cup as they went with 3 centre backs.  However, going with two centre back's woefully exposed their shortcomings.  They were lucky they were up against Babel and Depay last night as a side with world class forwards could have really embaressed them.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 hour ago, mozartfox said:

Pep will be in for Harry soon after that Stones display.  And people on here continually cast doubts about Soyuncu for a mistake at Fulham and a dodgy penalty at Huddersfield…...

Not if he was watching last night he won't.

[cal21212121]

Simply put, that game was won and lost in midfield. When the England defence were on the ball the midfielders were either hiding behind their dutch counterparts or offered for the pass only to do a first time pass back to the defence because they were too scared to turn. The dutch could have capitalised on this further had they started with Van de Beek in the 10 role and played Wjinaldum deeper like he plays for Liverpool instead of De Roon, I feel Netherlands looked so much better in the final 3rd with that setup. 

I feel Neville saying that England should revert to a back 3 is not at all the solution to the problem, if England had a competent midfield who want the ball and want to influence play then the defence have a lot less pressure on them. Fell victim slightly to Chelsea's idiocy with Loftus-Cheek being injured because he would have been a much better option than delph or barkley in the more advanced role, but ultimately that system would have suited our guy Maddison hugely as he essentially played the same role under Rodgers and he could have got the ball into Sancho and Stirling a lot more than what England actually achieved.

[sylofox]

We got nothing and deserved even less. I won't be wasting my time watching it Sunday. Rather be on the beach fishing. 

[Guest]

Drinkwater would have been better in midfield.

[OntarioFox]

Maguire and Stones are too similar to play in the same back line. It's about time one of them was dropped and someone in the "classic" centre-back role was brought in to sit, and while Stones' cockups were ultimately more costly last night let's not kid ourselves that Maguire isn't a similar bombscare and got away with a few last night.

 

At the very least, go back to the 3-5-2 to give them extra support if we must persist with two Beckenbauer types. Even though he had a similarly crap game last night, Walker has done that job well for England when he wasn't constantly having to track back.

[Mike Oxlong]

We are a work in progress hopefully going in the right direction 

 

Total over reaction to the loss

 

Anyone who thinks we are the finished article is deluded

 

Notwithstanding  last nights’ performance I remain optimistic that there are better times ahead 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Completely chucked it away, I thought Gareth had stopped this kind of terrible bottlejob. 

[WigstonWanderer]

Not a good England performance, the better team won for sure. Poor midfield hiding and not offering the options for the back 4 to play out.

 

Thought Chilwell had a relatively good match and was perhaps England’s best player. Sancho not great this time.

[lgfualol]

sOUThgate

[mozartfox]

1 hour ago, henrik_62 said:

Not if he was watching last night he won't.

Possibly true. For 65m he could buy the entire Celtic squad.

[Stadt]

Based on most of the reactions I’ve seen Southgate should rip up everything good that’s he’s done over the last two years because of one game. We were disappointing but it’s not the be all and end all - there’s a load of young players at the U21 Euro’s and hopefully the nations league is going to be the last hurrah for a few players.

[Guest Markyblue]

Very much Leicester first and England second for me but if i had to comment i can see the situation coming full circle as with the so called golden generation years ago, young talent were going to win something then time will go on and the same things will happen and so it will go on.

 

 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 hour ago, mozartfox said:

Possibly true. For 65m he could buy the entire Celtic squad.

What's Celtic got to do with it?

[foxinsocks]

2 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Completely chucked it away, I thought Gareth had stopped this kind of terrible bottlejob. 

too many spurs players....

 

more seriously -  we are in dreamland... we have some good young players -but not enough who are world class.  I would expect only striling rashford and lingard to make the dutch team.

 

Also there is a limit to how much he keeps the quad constant - is Deli Alli really playing that well or is he included on form from 3 years back?  How do Delph and stones even get in the squad - about 3 game each since April.  Barkley is not trainable imo yet I would keep rice in.

 

Southgate got the job coz he is a safe pair of hands - but is he really inspiring?

[Matt]

Let's piss about with it at the back and then act shocked when a mistake leads to a goal, twice.

 

I hate (there we are i've used that buzzword in a literal sense) this current obession that so many have that thinks you must play out from the back bullshit.

 

Even with effective players to play in that way I find it boring and even with effective players they'll still make mistake and more than likely it'll lead to a goal but to do it without effective players just baffles me even more.

[LinekersApples]

3 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

We are a work in progress hopefully going in the right direction 

 

Total over reaction to the loss

 

Anyone who thinks we are the finished article is deluded

 

Notwithstanding  last nights’ performance I remain optimistic that there are better times ahead 

I don't disagree, but this was a competitive semi final against a team which contained players from Brighton and Fulham.

[Mike Oxlong]

1 minute ago, LinekersApples said:

I don't disagree, but this was a competitive semi final against a team which contained players from Brighton and Fulham.

 

Yes, competitive, but I don’t think the squad would have been getting knighthoods had we won the thing. 

 

As a group the Dutch were technically better but it was still a matter of fine margins. 

 

Not a great performance last night but generally i feel we’ve made progress under Southgate. 

 

I used to absolutely hate watching England most of the time. Seems to me that we’re evolving in the right way and will get better. 

 

 

[fuchsntf]

This game was a chance to prove,the chosen players were ready to step up...

we played Delph..

 

Playing from the back was not the problem....it was 2 idiotic mistakes that,we shouldn't see from any Player at the top level

Our whole style mentality when having the ball,there was no midfielder,demanding  the ball..

We are trying to play too clever when near the opposition box....

Walker can't think..!!!

The team can't hold and play 1-2s or triangle of players...The Dutch were far more cosy with & on the ball.

Ali,is not the midfield wonder we expected...in fact he's had 3 seasons standing still.He is non creative.

I have criticised Sterling/Kane/Rashford, but they have no talented midfielder to link with,this lack of midfield talent,will also

Strangle Sancho potential for England..!!!

Our own Chilwell & Maguire were failed,because of lack of movement from midfield..tho' Chilli had some good runs and crosses,but faded

Due to lack of ballplaying support.  We need our young players,who can play football ....Winks/ Maddison/Fadon/Alexander-arnold/Gomez

There are 4 players that could change our method & fumbling ethos attitude...

 

 

[fuchsntf]

This game was a chance to prove,the chosen players were ready to step up...

we played Delph..

 

Playing from the back was not the problem....it was 2 idiotic mistakes that,we shouldn't see from any Player at the top level

Our whole style mentality when having the ball,there was no midfielder,demanding  the ball..

We are trying to play too clever when near the opposition box....

Walker can't think..!!!

The team can't hold and play 1-2s or triangle of players...The Dutch were far more cosy with & on the ball.

Ali,is not the midfield wonder we expected...in fact he's had 3 seasons standing still.He is non creative.

I have criticised Sterling/Kane/Rashford, but they have no talented midfielder to link with,this lack of midfield talent,will also

Strangle Sancho potential for England..!!!

Our own Chilwell & Maguire were failed because of lack of movement from midfield..tho' Chilli had some good runs and crosses,but faded,then looked

Like his runs could still turn it!!!

Due to lack of ballplaying support.  We need Winks/ Maddison/Fadon/Arnold./Gomez.

Ross Barkley falls over too much,and can't make the ball his!!! He can't think when moving forward or backwards,Like Ali,he looks promising,but can't convert

Potential promise. The Dutch have changed their fortunes,over 2 years,and can now again move the ball,has individuals & has a team,we are too damn slow.

The English players are too concerned,about their plastic value,than actually doing their duty and learn & keep to the basics of loving football..!!!

After moving to Man.city.Walker hasn't developed his strength,like Barkley,Ali,Sterling....his bustling and occasional front foot drives forward are not committed

Or regular enough...too much promise to deceive.....