The Politics Thread 2019

[lgfualol]

The country is ****ed congrats to the 52%

[Grebfromgrebland]

The country is ****ed congrats to the 48% for allowing it to happen.

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, lgfualol said:

The country is ****ed congrats to the 52%

 

2 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

The country is ****ed congrats to the 48% for allowing it to happen.

Does anyone know if I can apply to be voluntarily exiled from the UK?

[lifted*fox]

 

jesus christ what a ****ing embarrassment. 

 

in a time where physical currency is becoming less relevant we're making celebratory 50p coins to celebrate us flushing our own country down the ****ing toilet. 

 

you're gonna need about a thousand of those to buy a loaf of bread soon. 

 

hopefully we'll get a chance to dash them all in javid's face eventually when he's in the stocks outside parliament. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

Absolutely ****ing class that Tom Watson doesn't think there should be another Scottish referendum which about sums up him and his kind of politician, although let's be honest even in wider society its probably a majority of the second referendum crowd that oppose a second referendum for Scotland. Also class that the Scottish Labour leader thinks Scottish independence is the settled will but not Brexit.

 

Genuinely don't know what we did to deserve the politicians we've ended up with, what happened to politicians with some talent, some principles and a bit of intellect to ground their positions. 

[Buce]

 

More Police, more prison places, review on sentencing, random 'stop and search', threats to ignore the constitution...

 

Britains lurch to the Right is moving apace.

[Countryfox]

7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

More Police, more prison places, review on sentencing, random 'stop and search', threats to ignore the constitution...

 

Britains lurch to the Right is moving apace.

 

Don't you think we need more police and more space to lock people up ...   I've read some chilling stories over the weekend about how gangs don't even mind now if people are at home when the break in ...   just smash their way in, knock the crap out of everyone and take what they want.  They know the police are too stretched.  Scary stuff.

[urban.spaceman]

 

[Finnaldo]

4 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Greens have been showing steady signs of growth and perhaps being a bigger presence and more noticeable pressure group in Parliament and she says something as monumentally stupid as this.

 

What a fvcking idiot.

[Finnaldo]

35 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Don't you think we need more police and more space to lock people up ...   I've read some chilling stories over the weekend about how gangs don't even mind now if people are at home when the break in ...   just smash their way in, knock the crap out of everyone and take what they want.  They know the police are too stretched.  Scary stuff.

 

Britain needs better, more progressive rehabilitation in prisons and more social outreach to prevent crime in the first place. More police sure but it would be nowhere near as urgent and on such a large scale if we spent significantly less by learning from our Nordic cousins & Iberian friends.

 

It's been proven that in places like Portugal that lowering drug stigmatisation lowers related crime and social strife.

 

https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

 

Meanwhile, the Nordic Model of 'rehabilitation over punishment' has led to record lowest re-offending rates. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12?r=US&IR=T

 

And at home we can see how closure of community centres and social outreach projects have correlated with soaring gang violence in the last decade.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/20/childrens-centres-closed-austerity-council-cuts-tracy-brabin

 

Regardless of your position, it seems that the pragmatic, long-term solution to our ills are gradual progressive Continental reform of our prison system and social outreach projects.  

[Innovindil]

21 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Don't you think we need more police and more space to lock people up ...   I've read some chilling stories over the weekend about how gangs don't even mind now if people are at home when the break in ...   just smash their way in, knock the crap out of everyone and take what they want.  They know the police are too stretched.  Scary stuff.

More police and investment in prisons are only a good idea when labour suggest it. 

 

People seem to be getting genuinely upset that Boris is throwing money at the majority of things people regularly complain about. Almost like they're angry he's not making the same foolish mistakes May made when looking for a general election. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Carl the Llama]

19 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

Nothing like some good, old fashioned, family-friendly sexism.  Didn't we have a female leader quite recently? Must've been the men in the cabinet who stopped her doing anything productive about the Brexit fiasco.

[Buce]

23 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Don't you think we need more police and more space to lock people up ...   I've read some chilling stories over the weekend about how gangs don't even mind now if people are at home when the break in ...   just smash their way in, knock the crap out of everyone and take what they want.  They know the police are too stretched.  Scary stuff.

 

Locking more people up is an authoritarian response to society’s failings and is proven not to work. 

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

More police and investment in prisons are only a good idea when labour suggest it. 

 

People seem to be getting genuinely upset that Boris is throwing money at the majority of things people regularly complain about. Almost like they're angry he's not making the same foolish mistakes May made when looking for a general election. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Except right above you somebody's taken the time to explain why just building more cells isn't the answer.  Why don't you try again without the partisan specs on.

[Countryfox]

12 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

Britain needs better, more progressive rehabilitation in prisons and more social outreach to prevent crime in the first place. More police sure but it would be nowhere near as urgent and on such a large scale if we spent significantly less by learning from our Nordic cousins.

 

It's been proven that in places like Portugal that lowering drug stigmatisation lowers related crime and social strife.

 

https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

 

Meanwhile, the Nordic Model of 'rehabilitation over punishment' has led to record lowest re-offending rates. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12?r=US&IR=T

 

And at home we can see how closure of community centres and social outreach projects have correlated with soaring gang violence in the last decade.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/20/childrens-centres-closed-austerity-council-cuts-tracy-brabin

 

Regardless of your position, it seems that the pragmatic, long-term solution to our ills are gradual progressive Continental reform of our prison system and social outreach projects.  

 

Not sure all that progressive rehabilitation would work with the Albanian gangs that have flooded into the country ...  

[Finnaldo]

13 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Not sure all that progressive rehabilitation would work with the Albanian gangs that have flooded into the country ...  

 

Albanian gangs have thrived mainly to drug trafficking.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/kings-of-cocaine-albanian-mafia-uk-drugs-crime

 

If drug stigmatisation was dropped and we focused on rehabilitation than punishment like our Old Allies in Portugal, good chance we'd see a drop in drug use as well and as a result, significantly less activity from Albanian crime gangs who would no longer have the encouragement to operate on our shores. 

 

I also know a couple prison guards, drug use and development of drug dependency in prisons is at an all time high in our current system, the Norwegian system have virtually no issues with this. Again it would lower drug use and lower organised crime influence.

 

So yes, positive social rehabilitation would likely have a massive effect on Albanian gangs in this country

[Innovindil]

6 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Except right above you somebody's taken the time to explain why just building more cells isn't the answer.  Why don't you try again without the partisan specs on.

Not just building more cells though is he. He's recruiting more police, which have been called for by every man and his dog and expanding stop and search, which has been called for by the police themselves. 

 

Not the magical nordic solutions to all the problems some people want, but it's what has been asked for, by the politicians, by the people and by the police themselves. And when people will actually look beyond Boris and the tories, they will see that it's a good start. 

[MC Prussian]

I wish some people on here would finally realize how fvcked up the majority of US media are.

 

There's been this constant regurgitation that Trump excused Neo-Nazis with his "good people on both sides" comment following the Charlottesville incident in 2017 - thing is, the media deliberately misquoted him or just didn't quote him correctly. He said the complete opposite:

https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2019-08-04-the-biggest-lie-president-trump-didnt-call-neo-nazis-fine-people/

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

Not just building more cells though is he. He's recruiting more police, which have been called for by every man and his dog and expanding stop and search, which has been called for by the police themselves. 

 

Not the magical nordic solutions to all the problems some people want, but it's what has been asked for, by the politicians, by the people and by the police themselves. And when people will actually look beyond Boris and the tories, they will see that it's a good start. 

 

What makes them magical? I appreciate population size may make a difference, but it doesn't have to be to the letter and I don't see why we shouldn't learn from a country with a much better re-offending statistics than us. 

 

The only reason I see against moving towards or at least trialing certain schemes is an ideological rejection, which seems rather odd in a post where you claim people should look beyond Boris & the Tories.

 

As for Boris, more police generally only stops the crime, its all well and good arresting someone but when they go to jail and just reoffend again once released, which is a good chance with our reoffending statistics, what difference has it really made? It's an important first step it a multi-step challenge to lower crime in our country, but when the likelihood is that we won't move past that step, what does it matter? We're just spending money in a money sink at that point.

[David Guiza]

Just now, MC Prussian said:

I wish some people on here would finally realize how fvcked up the majority of US media are.

 

There's been this constant regurgitation that Trump excused Neo-Nazis with his "good people on both sides" comment following the Charlottesville incident in 2018 - thing is, the media deliberately misquoted him or just didn't quote him correctly. He said the complete opposite:

https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2019-08-04-the-biggest-lie-president-trump-didnt-call-neo-nazis-fine-people/

Happens here too - I remember numerous outlets claiming that Corbyn said the death of Bin Laden was a 'tragedy', when the quote was actually that it was a tragedy that he wasn't put to trial before being killed. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11834653/Jeremy-Corbyn-calls-death-of-Osama-bin-Laden-a-tragedy.html

 

[Finnaldo]

3 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I wish some people on here would finally realize how fvcked up the majority of US media are.

 

There's been this constant regurgitation that Trump excused Neo-Nazis with his "good people on both sides" comment following the Charlottesville incident in 2017 - thing is, the media deliberately misquoted him or just didn't quote him correctly. He said the complete opposite:

https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2019-08-04-the-biggest-lie-president-trump-didnt-call-neo-nazis-fine-people/

 

An interesting challenge on that assertion here:

 

 

[Countryfox]

25 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

Albanian gangs have thrived mainly to drug trafficking.

 

So yes, positive social rehabilitation would likely have a massive effect on Albanian gangs in this country

 

They are involved in drug trafficking ...   and they are also heavily involved in people trafficking, prostitution, slavery and violent robbery ...   amongst other things ....   and they are only one of many East European gangs from many other East European countries that flood into our country due to what they perceive as a weak and overstretched police force and a lenient judicial system ...   and they do take great delight in telling us this on social media.  There is nothing wrong with the points you are making but I really think we need to crack down on things such as this before the violence reaches epidemic proportions and the UK becomes the new wild west.

[purpleronnie]

28 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Not just building more cells though is he. He's recruiting more police, which have been called for by every man and his dog and expanding stop and search, which has been called for by the police themselves. 

 

Not the magical nordic solutions to all the problems some people want, but it's what has been asked for, by the politicians, by the people and by the police themselves. And when people will actually look beyond Boris and the tories, they will see that it's a good start. 

Given the tories cut the police numbers by 20,000 it's all a little too late.  As long as it's Evidence-based stop-and-search then that can be a positive step if its just random then it often makes the situation worse.

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

They are involved in drug trafficking ...   and they are also heavily involved in people trafficking, prostitution, slavery and violent robbery ...   amongst other things ....   and they are only one of many East European gangs from many other East European countries that flood into our country due to what they perceive as a weak and overstretched police force and a lenient judicial system ...   and they do take great delight in telling us this on social media.  There is nothing wrong with the points you are making but I really think we need to crack down on things such as this before the violence reaches epidemic proportions and the UK becomes the new wild west.

 

Your points are correct, I've known people who knew Albanian gangs, people who have worked in pubs where they frequent, they have mainly gone from people smuggling to drug trafficking, it would still massively hit the influence of such gangs.

 

The 'lenient' judicial system is another interesting one as it's been picked up on for the Nordic model as well. Namely when Anders Breivik, who committed the mass shooting in 2011 'only' got 21 years. 

 

The thing is, this system means that someone with a sentence of, say, 5 years for smuggling wouldn't just be released, they'd have a meeting with a special release committee, and due to the focus on rehabilitation, if they have any reasons to believe an inmate isn't fully rehabilitated, they could be sentenced for a longer term. And this can go on and on, until they have a good reason to believe release is acceptable.

 

Therefore, you could make the judicial system much stronger by implementing such a system.

[MC Prussian]

7 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

An interesting challenge on that assertion here:

 

 

Sure, that's one side of their reporting. There's also a lot of opinion pieces and talk shows entirely dedicated to Trump, omitting what was really said.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trump-charlottesville-and-the-press-abc-nbc-cbs-spend-77-percent-of-evening-news-broadcasts-on-presidents-press-conference

(Take it with a pinch of salt, but I suppose the numbers at the end are correct)

Quote

ABC and NBC also omitted Trump’s strong words condemning the murderer who drove his car into a crowd of counter protesters in an ISIS style attack. “Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is-- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want,” he exclaimed to the press. “The driver of the car is a murderer, and what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing.”

Explain to me how the people polled here came to the conclusion that Trump was defending extreme right-wingers or Neo-Nazis then:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-response-to-charlottesville-polls-2017-8?r=US&IR=T

 

Clearly something must've happened in the media for the people to believe the POTUSA said something that he didn't, forming a false or at least incomplete picture.