Brexit!

[Guest MattP]

The more you run Jeremy the worse it will get.

 

 

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

The more you run Jeremy the worse it will get.

 

 

They’re a bit thick really. All corbyn has to do is offer 2nd referendum on leaving the eu, and he’d win an election.

[Guest MattP]

32 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

They’re a bit thick really. All corbyn has to do is offer 2nd referendum on leaving the eu, and he’d win an election.

Don't really get how you are working that out. Labour got 260 seats at the last election and about 80% of the seats they need to get upto 326 are leave voting constituences.

Not to mention he's seen as incompetent by evern a lot of Labour voters, let alone the ones you need to drag over from other parties.

[Alf Bentley]

I see the Lib Dems & SNP are now planning to table a vote on Tuesday, needing only a simple majority, for an election on 9th Dec, provided an extension to 31st Jan is guaranteed......and sounds as if the Tories will reject this.

 

So, on Monday the Tories will be proposing a 12th Dec election subject to their deal being rammed through and, if that fails (likely as 2/3 majority required)), the next day they might be opposing a motion for an election 3 days earlier.... 

 

Are the LDs/SNP concerned that Corbyn might whip for Boris' election motion? Or that, as a compromise for Macron, the EU might grant a 31st Jan extension but with the option to leave on certain earlier dates.....allowing Boris to either get his deal through unamended or to call an election & then allow No Deal to happen?

 

Pushing for an election could be a big gamble for the LDs & SNP. Yes, they'd probably both win some extra MPs, but if the polls are to be believed, their MPs might then be sitting at Westminster for 5 years, watching a majority Boris Govt decide all the terms of a Hard Brexit/No Deal, including the future relationship, and introduce a raft of other hellish Tory policies. Maybe that's a calculated risk worth taking.....or maybe not. Would they want to spend 5 years powerless & blamed by Labour & maybe the public for having caused that? Might help the SNP in their pursuit of independence, I suppose. 

 

Also, if it works (e.g. if Labour backs them on Tues), it would allow them to go into an election with Brexit undone, Johnson having failed to keep his "31st Oct, do or die" pledge & the option to blame the Tories for their intransigence in withdrawing a deal that had just won a vote, simply because parliament wanted time to scrutinise it.... 

 

Meanwhile, the EU is sat there, trying to work out what the hell is happening at Westminster with all its smoke & mirrors & multi-dimensional chess.....and trying to work out a vaguely sane way out of all this.... 

[HappyHamza]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

They’re a bit thick really. All corbyn has to do is offer 2nd referendum on leaving the eu, and he’d win an election.

He is offering that.

He wants to negotiate a customs union then hand the choice back to the people.

[Guest MattP]

A Tory majority in England is absolutely perfect for the SNP - it's amazing how many pundits don't seem to be able to see this. The goal they have is independence and that's the only thing that matters. They'll even be prepared to prop up a Corbyn government and wreck the economy to do it if that's the other alternative. 

 

I don't care how it comes about but my word we need an election, this parliamentary paralysis can't end soon enough and so many current sitting MP's deserve to be kicked out of office by their constituents - I'm looking forward to seeing how many of these Lib Dems do the chicken run to safer seats after betraying their electorate. 

[Guest MattP]

13 minutes ago, HappyHamza said:

He is offering that.

He wants to negotiate a customs union then hand the choice back to the people.

And if he can't negotiate "A customs union" he's screwed. 

[Guest MattP]

This is either one of two things.

 

Deliberately misleading to try and rabble rouse against big companies. 

 

Or

 

The potential chief secretary to the treasury doesn't understand the difference between profit and turnover.

 

Either is possible in 2019.

 

 

Edited 27 October 2019 by MattP

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

And if he can't negotiate "A customs union" he's screwed. 

So just forget the negotiating bit and just offer a 2nd referendum and worry about the details until after he gets elected.

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

So just forget the negotiating bit and just offer a 2nd referendum and worry about the details until after he gets elected.

That plan worked out well for David Cameron.

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

This is either one of two things.

 

Deliberately misleading to try and rabble rouse against big companies. 

 

Or

 

The potential chief secretary to the treasury doesn't understand the difference between profit and turnover.

 

Either is possible in 2019.

 

 

Your point might be valid, but if she’s referring to lost VAT at 20%, that would be a much bigger deal, not sure if this is the case though as I don’t really know any details about what is or is not being paid, or the actual impact of VAT which is only effectively levied on Added Value.

[Salisbury Fox]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

This is either one of two things.

 

Deliberately misleading to try and rabble rouse against big companies. 

 

Or

 

The potential chief secretary to the treasury doesn't understand the difference between profit and turnover.

 

Either is possible in 2019.

 

 

There is a reason why she is known as Rebecca Wrong-Daily!

[HappyHamza]

5 hours ago, MattP said:

And if he can't negotiate "A customs union" he's screwed. 

It's highly unlikely he couldn't get that deal given it's simply an extension of what Boris has agreed for Northern Ireland, with an agreement that we'll align environmental and worker protections which the EU wants. 

[twoleftfeet]

Why would we want to allign with europe on enviroment and employment rights surely a "labour" government could pass laws surpassing these. If they get a majority or do they not want to do any actual work of passing laws and would rather delegate them to a different institution. As a population are we not to be trusted to elect poloticians to pass legislation regarding the enviroment and workers rights? 

[Strokes]

17 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

As a population are we not to be trusted to elect poloticians to pass legislation regarding the enviroment and workers rights? 

It’s probably not a great time to be asking that question, given that it’s looking likely we will have 3 general elections within 4 years.

[HappyHamza]

2 hours ago, twoleftfeet said:

Why would we want to allign with europe on enviroment and employment rights surely a "labour" government could pass laws surpassing these. If they get a majority or do they not want to do any actual work of passing laws and would rather delegate them to a different institution. As a population are we not to be trusted to elect poloticians to pass legislation regarding the enviroment and workers rights? 

Alignment is about the base position.

Labour probably would.

Can you seriously claim with a straight face that the Tories have removed that from the agreement because they want to improve our rights?

Edited 27 October 2019 by HappyHamza

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

It’s probably not a great time to be asking that question, given that it’s looking likely we will have 3 general elections within 4 years.

 

I'm wondering if I should pay a return visit to my old MP, Geoffrey Robinson (Lab).

 

I went to lobby him in about 2000 about Blair's failure to call a referendum on electoral reform (promised in 1997 Lab manifesto, pre-landslide).

 

Robinson told me that he opposed any change as First Past The Post delivered "strong, stable government". I'd like to ask him if he still believes that.... 

[Winchesterfox]

11 hours ago, MattP said:

This is either one of two things.

 

Deliberately misleading to try and rabble rouse against big companies. 

 

Or

 

The potential chief secretary to the treasury doesn't understand the difference between profit and turnover.

 

Either is possible in 2019.

 

 

Her point is a valid one.  Amazon is hiding its profits made in the UK  in other countries and not paying a fair share of its tax in the UK.  Amazon is freeloading on the rest of us for the costs of operating in the UK - healthcare, education, transport infrastructure and so on. Some other multinationals like Starbucks are doing the same and it needs dealing with.  

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I'm wondering if I should pay a return visit to my old MP, Geoffrey Robinson (Lab).

 

I went to lobby him in about 2000 about Blair's failure to call a referendum on electoral reform (promised in 1997 Lab manifesto, pre-landslide).

 

Robinson told me that he opposed any change as First Past The Post delivered "strong, stable government". I'd like to ask him if he still believes that.... 

Can you ask him about WTH, how did Dianne Abbot ever got even one vote.

[Strokes]

6 hours ago, Winchesterfox said:

Her point is a valid one.  Amazon is hiding its profits made in the UK  in other countries and not paying a fair share of its tax in the UK.  Amazon is freeloading on the rest of us for the costs of operating in the UK - healthcare, education, transport infrastructure and so on. Some other multinationals like Starbucks are doing the same and it needs dealing with.  

It isn’t valid, as she doesn’t point out that they are hiding profits or how much Profit they are hiding. She then makes a bizarre comparison, that strongly suggests that she thinks tax is/or should be paid on turnover.

[Winchesterfox]

It's not a new idea.  The finance ministers of France, Germany, Spain and Italy proposed a form of turnover tax a couple of years ago for multinationals paying almost no tax.  

[lgfualol]

https://newsthump.com/2019/10/27/clocks-going-back-means-brexit-is-delayed-by-another-full-hour-moan-angry-brexiters/

[The Guvnor]

Looks like the compromise for Macron will be a 'flextension' till 31st Jan. Time for all Party's to stop fcuking about with trying to push through this and take this off the table. Suspend talks on Brexit get an election done and let the people choose what they want with Brexit and domestic policies.

[Alf Bentley]

Stephen Bush's latest assessment:

 

"I hope that Nuneaton is nice in December, because the chances that we'll have an election that month are on the rise. Donald Tusk has persuaded Emmanuel Macron that his interests are better served by granting an extension to the Brexit process until 31 January, which leaves MPs with a genuine choice between ratifying Boris Johnson's withdrawal agreement and a fresh election. And a Liberal Democrat wheeze to get an election before 12 December - removing the possibility that this Parliament might put the withdrawal agreement into law before the next election - has attracted the support of the SNP, and, more importantly, Downing Street sources have told the press that they will consider it as a Plan B should Plan A (to secure an election with a two-thirds majority today in the House of Commons) fail. The details of that Plan B? A one-page bill that would put aside the terms of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act for one contest only, setting the next election for 9 December 2019.  The difficult truth that anyone who wants to stop Brexit has to reckon with is that there is a small majority in this Parliament to ratify Johnson's exit terms. His preferred future relationship has a trickier path to ratification, but he doesn't need to take the two together. He could separate them, and the longer this Parliament carries on for, the higher the chances that either he [does that], or the Labour MPs who want the UK to have left the EU before an election that takes place, will decide that they need to concede on the future relationship in order to go to the country with Brexit confirmed.  Yes, the prospects of returning a more pro-Remain parliament than this one look pretty dicey. Unless Jeremy Corbyn can turn around his dire poll ratings, or Jo Swinson can pull off the realignment that has eluded every one of her predecessors as Liberal Democrat leaders, the next election will return a parliament that is every bit as inclined to pass Johnson's deal as this, quite possibly a parliament that is even more committed to passing Johnson's deal. But that risk has to be weighed against the absolute certainty that without change this Parliament will pass Brexit - which means that an election before it takes place, however daunting a prospect that might be, is the best hope that Remainers have to stay in the EU".

[Babylon]

On 27/10/2019 at 07:20, MattP said:

The more you run Jeremy the worse it will get.

 

 

One of the worst governments in living memory and he can't poll more than 24%. What the hell is wrong with the Labour party putting that bloke in charge, sitting back and seeing him do absolutely nothing and being content with it. Absolutely bizarre.