FT General Election Poll 2019

[urban.spaceman]

 

[String fellow]

Can we now expect Gina Miller to try to get the result quashed in the High Court?

[Strokes]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Yep. That's one thing that was decided last night: the WA will be passed and Brexit will happen - formally leaving EU by 31st Jan, transition to December 2020, then leaving transition with or without a deal.

 

I can't imagine an extension happening either, given the pro-Brexit mood in the Tory party, the size of their majority & the early deadline (June/July). We'll be fully leaving transition in December 2020, one way or another, I think.

I suppose that if both the UK and the EU wanted to wangle a last-minute extension, they'd find a way of doing it.....but I really can't see the UK wanting that & possibly not the EU either.

I agree 100%, whether that’s the best approach or not I don’t know. I’ll just be pleased when it’s all done and we can judge it based on facts not what ifs.

[leicsmac]

Something I've been thinking about today:

 

The events of the last few years, rubber stamped by yesterday,  have pretty much eroded any vestiges of national identity I feel towards the UK. Perhaps being away for as long as I have been has a part to play too, and anyone who has been around here for long enough will know my views on nationhood anyway, but such an identity is, I think, built on common interest, thought and cause - and seeing a consistent plurality (or at least enough to dictate state policy) of people with general worldviews that are so obviously different to mine means that shared identity cannot exist. Of course,  there is still feeling there for certain people there who will likely be feeling the pinch over the next few years, but no more than those facing similar in other places.

 

As far as I'm concerned, outside the sporting arena, my UK citizenship is merely a legal tool with which to open what doors are necessary to be opened for me, nothing more. I don't feel shame at the UK and it's citizenry, nor pride, as those would both imply a level of affinity or responsibility that I feel I don't have...i just feel ambivalence.

 

Perhaps that's sad, but it is what it is.

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, String fellow said:

Can we now expect Gina Miller to try to get the result quashed in the High Court?

It’s probably time to stop this silliness now, you can be gracious in victory you know.

[Lionator]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Something I've been thinking about today:

 

The events of the last few years, rubber stamped by yesterday,  have pretty much eroded any vestiges of national identity I feel towards the UK. Perhaps being away for as long as I have been has a part to play too, and anyone who has been around here for long enough will know my views on nationhood anyway, but such an identity is, I think, built on common interest, thought and cause - and seeing a consistent plurality (or at least enough to dictate state policy) of people with general worldviews that are so obviously different to mine means that shared identity cannot exist. Of course,  there is still feeling there for certain people there who will likely be feeling the pinch over the next few years, but no more than those facing similar in other places.

 

As far as I'm concerned, outside the sporting arena, my UK citizenship is merely a legal tool with which to open what doors are necessary to be opened for me, nothing more. I don't feel shame at the UK and it's citizenry, nor pride, as those would both imply a level of affinity or responsibility that I feel I don't have...i just feel ambivalence.

 

Perhaps that's sad, but it is what it is.

Fully agree, outside of Sports I feel zero pride for this country. I don’t hate it and we have it much better than a lot of other places, but what do I have to be proud about?

[Stoopid]

10 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

This is a trend that has been going on for a couple of decades, and you'll find this taking place in pretty much all Western countries.

 

On a sidenote, it's easy to call city slackers more liberal than the people living in the countryside or in smaller cities. I'd say there's tons of swing voters in either area.

The media tend to make it out as a fight between two extremes in order to gain more attention, but in reality, there's much more nuance as to the voting base.

I get that but, let's face it - Leicester's a pretty strong Labour town. 53 out of 54 City Councillors are Labour (the other one's Liberal - not a single Tory councillor in the entire city!) And we still returned 3 Labour MPs despite yesterday's bluewash.

And the county is a classic Tory shire.

Pretty stark contrast, I'd have thought.

[Kopfkino]

Labour has kinda got away with it, this could have been complete disaster as there are plenty of seats where the majority has been whittled right down. I suspect about 2 or 3 weeks ago it was looking like a big disaster. 

 

I'm conflicted though. 5 years is a long time (FTPA being ditched notwithstanding) but its hard to see how they come back from this in one election cycle next time round. Its also much easier for the Conservatives to move left on economics (as shown) than it is for the modern left to be less woke. On the other hand, Corbyn is a massive part of the problem such that a different leader dialling down the policies a bit and without all the baggage shouldn't, in theory, find some of the recovery mission too tough. But that requires a level of introspection that I don't think the current Labour Party is capable of. 

[BlueSi13]

Certainly not going to gloat today.

 

The past three years have been appalling, friends, families & communities torn apart.

 

But now finally we have a government that can move the needle and take the country forward.  Over time wounds will heal and divisions will dissipate.

 

As for the Labour party, I feel sorry for the decent, salt-of-the-earth patriotic working class members and MP's who have seen that truly great party decimated by the Corbyn-McDonnell-Milne axis and their Marxist Momentum foot soldiers.  Hopefully now that stain can be washed away and they can rebuild.

 

It is IMPERATIVE that this country has a strong opposition and I hope Labour can be stronger again.

 

Best wishes to all 

[String fellow]

Football fans talk about bragging rights, yet when it comes to politics, the victors are meant to be gracious in victory. I don't get it.

[purpleronnie]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Something I've been thinking about today:

 

The events of the last few years, rubber stamped by yesterday,  have pretty much eroded any vestiges of national identity I feel towards the UK. Perhaps being away for as long as I have been has a part to play too, and anyone who has been around here for long enough will know my views on nationhood anyway, but such an identity is, I think, built on common interest, thought and cause - and seeing a consistent plurality (or at least enough to dictate state policy) of people with general worldviews that are so obviously different to mine means that shared identity cannot exist. Of course,  there is still feeling there for certain people there who will likely be feeling the pinch over the next few years, but no more than those facing similar in other places.

 

As far as I'm concerned, outside the sporting arena, my UK citizenship is merely a legal tool with which to open what doors are necessary to be opened for me, nothing more. I don't feel shame at the UK and it's citizenry, nor pride, as those would both imply a level of affinity or responsibility that I feel I don't have...i just feel ambivalence.

 

Perhaps that's sad, but it is what it is.

Completely agree and have felt like that for the past few years, if it wasn't for family ties I'd quite happily leave and not look back, the things I loved about the country and the people been eroded away, maybe those things were never really there?  Ambivalence is the key word here....and it is sad but I'm sure it's not just us who feel this way.

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

Certainly not going to gloat today.

 

The past three years have been appalling, friends, families & communities torn apart.

 

But now finally we have a government that can move the needle and take the country forward.  Over time wounds will heal and divisions will dissipate.

 

As for the Labour party, I feel sorry for the decent, salt-of-the-earth patriotic working class members and MP's who have seen that truly great party decimated by the Corbyn-McDonnell-Milne axis and their Marxist Momentum foot soldiers.  Hopefully now that stain can be washed away and they can rebuild.

 

It is IMPERATIVE that this country has a strong opposition and I hope Labour can be stronger again.

 

Best wishes to all 

Mostly agree with the sentiment but I'm not really sure about the bolded part. Time has a habit of healing wounds, but it's difficult to say if there's been a time in living memory when the divisions have been as stark (and with so many people backing either one of them) as they are now.

 

 

2 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Football fans talk about bragging rights, yet when it comes to politics, the victors are meant to be gracious in victory. I don't get it.

...because Shankly was wrong about football being more important than life or death, and politics (sometimes) comes down to those two things.

[Guest Markyblue]

8 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Completely agree and have felt like that for the past few years, if it wasn't for family ties I'd quite happily leave and not look back, the things I loved about the country and the people been eroded away, maybe those things were never really there?  Ambivalence is the key word here....and it is sad but I'm sure it's not just us who feel this way.

Maybe just maybe if/when you leave and find your utopia you will have time to reflect on why people travel through most of western Europes democracies to get to this little island we live on. Happy hunting. 

[purpleronnie]

5 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Maybe just maybe if/when you leave and find your utopia you will have time to reflect on why people travel through most of western Europes democracies to get to this little island we live on. Happy hunting. 

Chances are they are looking for a better life, there are many worse places to live than England.  Thre's still plenty of things I love about this country but given the choice right now with no family ties I would look elsewhere...but i'm not going anywhere.....yet.

Edited 13 December 2019 by purpleronnie

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Markyblue said:

Maybe just maybe if/when you leave and find your utopia you will have time to reflect on why people travel through most of western Europes democracies to get to this little island we live on. Happy hunting. 

...can't speak for Ronnie, but I've been away for 7 and a half years out of the past 10 and so I've had plenty of time to reflect on exactly that...hence the post above.

[FerrisBueller]

16 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Football fans talk about bragging rights, yet when it comes to politics, the victors are meant to be gracious in victory. I don't get it.

Football doesn't affect peoples lives to the extent that politics does?

[Milo]

Jeez.
 

The state of some of the drama queens on here... 🙄

[David Guiza]

11 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Football fans talk about bragging rights, yet when it comes to politics, the victors are meant to be gracious in victory. I don't get it.

If you can't seriously decipher the difference between a football game that has no real baring on life, outside of those who take it too seriously, and something that effects literally everything then I really don't know where to begin. 

 

Not everything is sport, if you beat a colleague to a promotion do you go full Martin Keown v Ruud Van Nistelrooy? Why can't you just be content in the fact that you've got another 5 years of being represented by a party that cares about you?

[Strokes]

13 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Completely agree and have felt like that for the past few years, if it wasn't for family ties I'd quite happily leave and not look back, the things I loved about the country and the people been eroded away, maybe those things were never really there?  Ambivalence is the key word here....and it is sad but I'm sure it's not just us who feel this way.

I’m sorry you feel like that Ronnie but I do understand, it’s exactly how I would have felt had the last 4 years gone the opposite way.

Hopefully when the dust has settled on this and vitriol has quietened you can find yourself a bit more at home with the choices/votes we have made.

We honestly haven’t made them to spite you all, well I didn’t.

[bmt]

Horrendous result yesterday, but moving forwards could be an exciting time for labour if the next play is right. I think some compromise on policy (some of the giveaways reduced etc) and a change of leadership could be exactly what the part needs. Oh and a purge of anti-semites and relinquish of power from Momentum style activists. Hope they don't go back to New Labour though as I think that would be the wrong move, their socialist policies were looked at quite favourably.

 

The other slight positive for me is that, although I think he is a horrible human being, Boris probably will shift the party away from austerity and is slightly more liberal than others in the Conservatives. Hopefully the size of majority allows him to ignore the ERG on Brexit and have a softish Brexit with good deals set up etc and managed reasonably well.

[Guest Markyblue]

3 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Chances are they are looking for a better life, there are many worse places to live than England.  Thre's still plenty of things I love about this country but given the choice right now with no family ties I would look elsewhere...but i'm not going anywhere.

I'm very pleased your not leaving, you I'm sure have plenty to offer the country,  better to try to change from within my friend, good luck. 

[purpleronnie]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I’m sorry you feel like that Ronnie but I do understand, it’s exactly how I would have felt had the last 4 years gone the opposite way.

Hopefully when the dust has settled on this and vitriol has quietened you can find yourself a bit more at home with the choices/votes we have made.

We honestly haven’t made them to spite you all, well I didn’t.

Hey that's great it works both ways I completely understand that.  And I totally agree I think the whole Brexit saga has just heightened things and now maybe things will normalize somewhat. 

[AKCJ]

20 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Football fans talk about bragging rights, yet when it comes to politics, the victors are meant to be gracious in victory. I don't get it.

Because politics and sport are completely different?

 

We're not talking about teams here. We're talking about everyone's livelihoods. 

[twoleftfeet]

1 minute ago, bmt said:

Horrendous result yesterday, but moving forwards could be an exciting time for labour if the next play is right. I think some compromise on policy (some of the giveaways reduced etc) and a change of leadership could be exactly what the part needs. Oh and a purge of anti-semites and relinquish of power from Momentum style activists. Hope they don't go back to New Labour though as I think that would be the wrong move, their socialist policies were looked at quite favourably.

 

The other slight positive for me is that, although I think he is a horrible human being, Boris probably will shift the party away from austerity and is slightly more liberal than others in the Conservatives. Hopefully the size of majority allows him to ignore the ERG on Brexit and have a softish Brexit with good deals set up etc and managed reasonably well.

It wasn't an horrendous result it was predicted. I have until now always voted Labour 

[FerrisBueller]

18 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Completely agree and have felt like that for the past few years, if it wasn't for family ties I'd quite happily leave and not look back, the things I loved about the country and the people been eroded away, maybe those things were never really there?  Ambivalence is the key word here....and it is sad but I'm sure it's not just us who feel this way.

My thoughts exactly. I've never really bought in to the idea of nationalism, I can't think of much that makes me proud to be English. I've always wanted to live elsewhere, but these last few years have made it easier in a way.

I'll be moving to Denmark by the end of next year, grabbing that last little bit of FOM while I can. I wish I could have longer due to commitments here, but ultimately I don't want to live in a country that seems to reflect polar opposite morals and views to myself.

Gonna be a crazy next 5-10 years!