FT General Election Poll 2019

[turkish14]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

Probably but that just proves what a corrupt bullshit organisation it really is.

Couldnt alter any of its principles to keep us but will alter them to scorn us

 

Absolutely they will! did you or I expect anything less.

 

the SNP will get what they and it saddens me to say, many English want. 
 

 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Is it that easy to put the Anti-Semitism to bed? It’s arguably now institutional within and in my honest opinion, will be very difficult to remove. It requires firstly, an admission of how bad the problem is.

There’s a lot of no hopers at the top of the party too 

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, turkish14 said:

Absolutely they will! did you or I expect anything less.

 

the SNP will get what they and it saddens me to say, many English want. 
 

 

 

I’d put some serious money on Scotland not being accepted into the EU, within 7 years of an indyref2 decision to leave the UK.

Edited 13 December 2019 by Strokes

[Finnaldo]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Is it that easy to put the Anti-Semitism to bed? It’s arguably now institutional within and in my honest opinion, will be very difficult to remove. It requires firstly, an admission of how bad the problem is.

 

It's hard to say exactly how institutionalised it is until Corbyn has gone and a new leader elected. until the head of the snake is gone you can't really say how far the issue has spread and is actually safeguarded.

[Foxhateram]

32 minutes ago, DennisNedry said:

 

Of the two evils, Labour in it's current form is worse, in my opinion.

 

I'm in Leicestershire South anyway, a big Tory win was inevitable.

That's the problem with this voting system. So many people think like you, but if all of those people who think that get out and vote. We might get more independent seats and a better future. 

[turkish14]

38 minutes ago, DennisNedry said:

If there was ever a 'lesser of two evils' election, this was it.

 

As somebody with (generally speaking) left leaning economic views, and right leaning social views, none of the main parties represent me at all.

 

Ended up spoiling my ballet paper as I couldn't bring myself to vote for Corbyn or Boris.

This is how I felt. I’m more Lib Dem, but went for the “tactical vote” in voting labour. But clearly didn’t work.

 

I don’t trust boris or Jeremy, but felt the latter would best serve the needs of the UK.

 

must stress.... in my opinion

[Benguin]

Great result and no surprise. Lib Dem’s rejecting the Brexit vote and Labour pledging for a second referendum. There was only one place the leave vote, even traditional labour voters, could turn. 
 

We have a proper majority now and things can get done. The country has overwhelmingly declared that they want Brexit done. 

[turkish14]

21 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

All those that served along side me were about as anti corbyn as you'll ever find. 

I Don’t disagree...

 

but in my opinion the UK had a better chance of staying united under a labour or Lib Dem government.

[turkish14]

8 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’d put some serious money on Scotland not being accepted into the EU, within 7 years of an indyref2 decision to leave the UK.

As the classic adage goes...

 

time will tell 

[David Guiza]

19 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

Can't agree more. As a Teacher myself (Primary), the Tories have gutted education. In its current state, the profession is soul-destroying, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone - I actively try and put people off from becoming teachers whenever anyone asks what it's like. I dread to think what it will be like with 5 more years of this.

 

I haven't left the profession, but I dropped down to part time and took a huge pay-cut because I couldn't face doing 60 - 70 hour weeks any longer.

Hope it gets better for you! It's the same this end, my wife went down to 4 days a week at start of this academic year because it simply wasn't sustainable and is considering going down to 3 days. I'd still hazard a guess that she works more hours than I do in my 9-5 job too, it's utterly relentless with no let up. 

 

Tories want to make Ofsted a 3 day event too and allow them to arrive unannounced, just to add a little bit more stress to the teachers! 

 

11 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

There's a halfway compromise to be met. People suggesting Centrism will save the Labour Party are fooling themselves as much as Corbyn-hardliners. Take the current manifesto, scale back all the nationalisation promises to rail only, take out the over the top 'free x,x and x' and revisit the taxation plan. There's potential leaders who can carry that forward well, rather its the more experienced establishment figure like Starmer or the young exciting, but considerably baggageless up-and-comer like Long-Bailey.

 

Any retreat straight back to the centre or further Left betrays Labour values. Clear out the shit cabinet, put some accountable figures in, moderate the current position (and put the Anti-Semitism row to bed) and get cracking in 2020.

Absolutely, I hope they don't chuck the baby out with the bathwater and fast track their way back to the centre because that's not the answer, at least for the time being I think. 

 

As has been mentioned, I'm not convinced that the majority of potential Labour voters were overly against much of the policy and it was the personality politics that lost the election. Whoever takes the role needs to work hard to win back the trust of numerous factors, from the working class, to the hard left and even the press. A large part of Blair's success was having the press on board, thanks in no small part to the likes of Burnley's number 1 fan I guess, whereas Corbyn couldn't even get the backing of the Guardian for large parts. 

 

Time will tell I guess!  

 

11 minutes ago, Strokes said:

We will be negotiating a trade deal from a position of complete regulatory alignment. It’s not a trade deal that requires any fall in line tactics. It’s pretty much a negotiation now about trade offs. There is no reason it can’t be done by the end of the forecasted transition.

 

 

I sincerely hope it's straightforward. I didn't vote for it, either in the referendum or the subsequent elections, but I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I'd rather it be a success than an abject failure at the expense of the individual citizen.

 

I however cannot see how it's suddenly going to fall into place and negotiations won't take a long time, particularly when you consider the variables likes the US election coming up and how long previous deals involving the US have taken etc .

[Col city fan]

Let’s have it right, it was a complete embarrassment for Labour. I don’t think people were voting for Boris particularly, more they were voting against Corbyn and his cronies.

When labour lose seats like Bolsover you know something’s completely wrong.

I just hope the Tories do what they pledged and stop Austerity now.

At least this clear majority now means that decisions can be properly made, without all the pissing about we’ve had for the last couple or three years

[Guest BlueBrett]

3 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

This is down to Labour's frankly baffling unwillingness to back the will of the people (Those that bothered to vote in the ridiculous, unfathomable referendum) and declare himself as willing to (urrgh) "Get Brexit Done"

Even more baffling is the clear fact he is a euro-sceptic, so to not declare himself as such alienates him from the (referendum) majority. (And makes him look a fewkin liar)

Labour need to shed Momentum or they will never be electable. In reality, don't care, not a Labour supporter, normally a Tory, but not this time as I voted remain

Absolutely.

 

Now that it's all done and dusted I can say this without sounding like I'm trying to score points or whatever..whoever is in charge of determining Labour policy should never work again! 

 

They made themselves completely unelectable with their Brexit stance. It just didn't make any sense. How can you possibly say that you will go out and negotiate a new deal with the EU which will somehow be superior to what's on the table and then in all likelihood a majority of the party will campaign against the acceptance of their own deal (while the leader says and does who knows what)?? That is honestly some of the most ridiculous incoherent nonsense I've ever heard. Where's the incentive to actually secure a good deal and why would the EU bother making concessions to, or even taking seriously, a bunch of people who don't even want the things they're asking for? They must think the electorate are half as stupid as they are themselves.

 

I find it really difficult to comprehend how anybody could actually go out and vote for these morons - but then I guess they don't really, they just vote 'against' the Tories.

Edited 13 December 2019 by BlueBrett

[David Guiza]

Incidentally, I read somewhere that the remain/leave vote party wise last night was 52-48 in favour of remain, but of course that is somewhat difficult to calculate given each parties stance (or lack of), and that the Tories only increased their vote share by 1% to 43%. 

 

Reform really is needed, but it won't happen anytime soon .

[Strokes]

11 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

 

 

I sincerely hope it's straightforward. I didn't vote for it, either in the referendum or the subsequent elections, but I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I'd rather it be a success than an abject failure at the expense of the individual citizen.

 

I however cannot see how it's suddenly going to fall into place and negotiations won't take a long time, particularly when you consider the variables likes the US election coming up and how long previous deals involving the US have taken etc .

I think, they would best of looking at doing deals with countries that already have deals with the customs union first and trying to replicate as much of that before heading over the pond.

Again in effect, we already have a deal/blueprint to work from.

[Dahnsouff]

6 minutes ago, BlueBrett said:

 

I find it really difficult to comprehend how anybody could actually go out and vote for these morons - but then I guess they don't really, they just vote 'against' the Tories.

The cool kids call it tactical voting now I believe 

[ealingfox]

But their stance was reflective of their membership though and that's where I have a modicum of sympathy. They were being pulled in two directions - for every nod to the Labour leave vote you had someone like Tom Watson saying wHy ArEnT wE bAcKiNg ReMaIn

 

It was unsustainable and lose-lose. They either 'betrayed' one half of the membership or the other and the Conservatives didnt really have this issue because the membership was largely of the same view.

Edited 13 December 2019 by ealingfox

[Finnaldo]

2 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Absolutely, I hope they don't chuck the baby out with the bathwater and fast track their way back to the centre because that's not the answer, at least for the time being I think. 

 

As has been mentioned, I'm not convinced that the majority of potential Labour voters were overly against much of the policy and it was the personality politics that lost the election. Whoever takes the role needs to work hard to win back the trust of numerous factors, from the working class, to the hard left and even the press. A large part of Blair's success was having the press on board, thanks in no small part to the likes of Burnley's number 1 fan I guess, whereas Corbyn couldn't even get the backing of the Guardian for large parts. 

 

Time will tell I guess!  

 

It's very much this I believe. True or not, Corbyn's public perception as a terrorist-sympathising Stalinist has been set in stone for a while, and our traditional media leans right regardless. This was set-up to be a bloodbath.

 

A positive you could say is after this leadership and manifesto, you could get away 'radical' policies like nationalisation whilst still claiming to be a moderating force.

 

Either way we roll up our sleeves and go on. Can only get better from here 

[Bob Hazels shorts]

Dodged a bullet there.

 

I would've been personally better off under Corbyn but i'm not that selfish.

 

Being a boomer and living through the last real socialist governments in Wilson and Callaghan, and watching the now multi multi millionaire Blair and Brown driving the country into recession that we are only just recovering from I wouldn't want to leave my kids picking up the damage.

 

Corbyn will go down as the worst Labour leader in history and his front bench are/were dangerously incompetent and extremist.

 

The country now needs 'this century' quality opposition to keep Boris in check. Career protesters such as Corbyn resenting and wanting to punish success are for the dark ages as shown around most of the world. 

[simFox]

From another forum, but good info:

 

EU President said the EU is ready to go on the trade deal. Welcomes negotiations:

The former Belgian prime minister hoped for "an early ratification by the British parliament" of the exit agreement negotiated between London and the EU, "so that we can start the negotiations on the next phase calmly, quietly but with great determination".

The EU leaders have a Brexit text ready to adopt on Friday at the end of their two day summit, which was dominated on Thursday by climate talks.
According to the latest draft, seen by AFP, the 27 other EU leaders will call for "as close as possible a future relationship with the UK" while warning that "the future relationship will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations and ensure a level playing field" in terms of business and trade rules.

They want it over as much as the UK. Remainers wildly overplayed their hand (and probably will continue to cry us a river for the next few years). Hogan has already coughed the EU/UK deal is easier as we are aligned on a lot of rights and obligations already - obvious caveat is obvious, as it were. Merkel and Macron are (behind the scenes) - gunning for a fast FTA given global headwinds

Edited 13 December 2019 by simFox

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

But their stance was reflective of their membership though and that's where I have a modicum of sympathy. They were being pulled in two directions - for every nod to the Labour leave vote you had someone like Tom Watson saying wHy ArEnT wE bAcKiNg ReMaIn

 

It was unsustainable and lose-lose. They either 'betrayed' one half of the membership or the other.

But that is not reasonable to give Labour an excuse. As a political party, arguably escpecially as the opposition, a strong stance representing the largest possible portion of your members, as long as it remains true to the party's political bent, must be taken.

It is Labours unwillingness to do this that made them doomed to fail and appear weak and cowardly, something the country cannot afford at this time.

[ealingfox]

5 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

But that is not reasonable to give Labour an excuse. As a political party, arguably escpecially as the opposition, a strong stance representing the largest possible portion of your members, as long as it remains true to the party's political bent, must be taken.

It is Labours unwillingness to do this that made them doomed to fail and appear weak and cowardly, something the country cannot afford at this time.

 

But the larger half of the Labour membership was Remain.

 

And this just demonstrates the bind. We've got people saying that a 'sensible' or centre-left Labour leader would have beaten the Tories easily, and that Labour got thumped because they were too Remainy. Those two things are mutually exclusive, so which one is it?

Edited 13 December 2019 by ealingfox

[Strokes]

10 minutes ago, simFox said:

EU President said the EU is ready to go on the trade deal. Welcomes negotiations:

The former Belgian prime minister hoped for "an early ratification by the British parliament" of the exit agreement negotiated between London and the EU, "so that we can start the negotiations on the next phase calmly, quietly but with great determination".

The EU leaders have a Brexit text ready to adopt on Friday at the end of their two day summit, which was dominated on Thursday by climate talks.
According to the latest draft, seen by AFP, the 27 other EU leaders will call for "as close as possible a future relationship with the UK" while warning that "the future relationship will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations and ensure a level playing field" in terms of business and trade rules.

They want it over as much as the UK. Remainers wildly overplayed their hand (and probably will continue to cry us a river for the next few years). Hogan has already coughed the EU/UK deal is easier as we are aligned on a lot of rights and obligations already - obvious caveat is obvious, as it were. Merkel and Macron are (behind the scenes) - gunning for a fast FTA given global headwinds

I’m out of reps.

[Mark_w]

9 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

But the larger half of the Labour membership was Remain.

 

And this just demonstrates the bind. We've got people saying that a 'sensible' or centre-left Labour leader would have beaten the Tories easily, and that Labour got thumped because they were too Remainy. Those two things are mutually exclusive, so which one is it?

 

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’m out of reps.

 

[Dahnsouff]

11 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

But the larger half of the Labour membership was Remain.

 

And this just demonstrates the bind. We've got people saying that a 'sensible' or centre-left Labour leader would have beaten the Tories easily, and that Labour got thumped because they were too Remainy. Those two things are mutually exclusive, so which one is it?

I do see the quandry, but the same can correctly be said of Tory party members, a majority was remain. It is simple go with the will of the party, but if you have a Referendum result to factor into this, then it becomes a party's duty (??) to follow the (non-legally binding) referendum result, the will of the people at large?

Or you could play the contrary position and position themselves that way.

In the case of Labour, they decided on neither.

[Bobby Hundreds]

25 minutes ago, simFox said:

From another forum, but good info:

 

EU President said the EU is ready to go on the trade deal. Welcomes negotiations:

The former Belgian prime minister hoped for "an early ratification by the British parliament" of the exit agreement negotiated between London and the EU, "so that we can start the negotiations on the next phase calmly, quietly but with great determination".

The EU leaders have a Brexit text ready to adopt on Friday at the end of their two day summit, which was dominated on Thursday by climate talks.
According to the latest draft, seen by AFP, the 27 other EU leaders will call for "as close as possible a future relationship with the UK" while warning that "the future relationship will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations and ensure a level playing field" in terms of business and trade rules.

They want it over as much as the UK. Remainers wildly overplayed their hand (and probably will continue to cry us a river for the next few years). Hogan has already coughed the EU/UK deal is easier as we are aligned on a lot of rights and obligations already - obvious caveat is obvious, as it were. Merkel and Macron are (behind the scenes) - gunning for a fast FTA given global headwinds

And Boris can now completely ignore the wishes of the foaming mouthed ERG.