Tactics Talk:

[ARM1968]

This is all bollocks surely? It’s just 11 blokes vs 11 blokes kicking a ball around. It’s not fuching chess. Generally, if you have the better 11 blokes you win - tactical analysis my arsh. 
 

please feel free to substitute blokes for birds in the above paragraph so I can’t be accused of sexism. 

[Strokes]

Too obvious.

[LC/FC]

8 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

This is all bollocks surely? It’s just 11 blokes vs 11 blokes kicking a ball around. It’s not fuching chess. Generally, if you have the better 11 blokes you win - tactical analysis my arsh. 
 

please feel free to substitute blokes for birds in the above paragraph so I can’t be accused of sexism. 

Then. Fuching. Explain. Burnley.

[LCFCCHRIS]

On 15/02/2021 at 18:28, HighPeakFox said:

Just listened to the Totally Football Podcast - insulting assessment of BR's methods, basically saying he just copies other managers' methods, ignorant of what he's done previously.

At the end of the day everyone copies everyone to a certain degree. Football is so established that you could go your entire career without creating your own tactics. As others said, if it works, who cares 😁.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

This is all bollocks surely? It’s just 11 blokes vs 11 blokes kicking a ball around. It’s not fuching chess. Generally, if you have the better 11 blokes you win - tactical analysis my arsh. 
 

please feel free to substitute blokes for birds in the above paragraph so I can’t be accused of sexism. 

Yeah that's exactly why clubs pay managers millions of pounds every year to instruct them and set them up tactically, as well as employing teams of specialist coaches and analysts. Unless you were taking the piss, in which case well done, you've rinsed me

[ARM1968]

8 hours ago, Guest said:

Yeah that's exactly why clubs pay managers millions of pounds every year to instruct them and set them up tactically, as well as employing teams of specialist coaches and analysts. Unless you were taking the piss, in which case well done, you've rinsed me

Piss taken

[ARM1968]

9 hours ago, LC/FC said:

Then. Fuching. Explain. Burnley.

I said generally. Burnley are an anomaly 🤣

 

Or, it could be tactics. 

[Buce]

9 hours ago, LC/FC said:

There in lies a problem with the "Mahrez replacement"

There isn't one. Unless that Godlike talent  mixes in with hard graft, which is the whole ethos of the team, we'll never have another Magician in the way we did with Riyad by the way we are as a team now.

 

Claudio basically had 2 talents to get the goals and the other 9 to service them. That's why we played the counter as everything was designed to allow Mahrez to create and Vardy to finish.

The reasons Gray and Under suffer is because we no longer play the same. Tbh we play more as we did under Pearson. We're designed to hunt in packs. That's why timings and movement have to be spot on and any maverick gung-ho action breaks all our traps and manipulation of the opposition.

 

The formation is just the basis of how we set our available players out, but the system of how we do things is still pass, press or counter depending on the opposition. It's flexibility, fluidity and understanding per game which Rodger is trying to instill into our team/club. Identity is a cliché but if we did have one, then at our best we are like foxes, we hunt in packs. 

But the genius which shows the talents of our players and coaching staff is playing any of those 3 systems in multiple formations.

As I've mentioned our best current formation with all players available is 433 but that falls down when a cog is missing. So far the base formation that been mostly seen has been 4231. But that can flex into different ones itself with 4141 and 433 and 4213 being easy to slip into with Youri being that transformative lynchpin as well as doing 442 and the 442 diamond. He can attack and defend. He's still young and still has things to learn about the game before he can really control it. But the fact that he's able to do the things he does at is age and we have him at Leicester City is remarkable. There's a reason why he broke in professionally in the Champions League at 16. He's not quite as good as Cambiasso at controlling tempo but that not a fair comparison currently, as Cambiasso was a CL and Title winning veteran when he came to us but the way he saw and controlled the game is what a finished Youri could be. In 10 years time when Youri is about the same age as Estaban was he came here, we'll have a better comparison.

 

I digress back to formations...

We've also had to go 3 at the back plenty but with players that can play fullback or wingback it's been easy enough for 541, 343, 352 with Justin, Castagne, Soyuncu, Fofana and Pereira being so versatile and also dynamic. Along with Vardy, Maddison, Barnes, Albrighton, Iheanacho, Perez, Under playing depending on personnel and injuries, Rodgers has created a playstyle that 100% focuses on teamwork. Hence why a mercurial magician might never appear again...

But the trade off for that now is a team that replaces that magic with a goal from 30 pass move and or possible total domination of the game that allows us to win 5-0 and 9-0.

 

I miss watching special players create a bit of magic from nowhere. It's part of the beauty of the game. But we do have enough special talents that can produce magic. Madders, Barnes, hell even Justin has scored a couple of bangers. But what's actually better than producing a special bit of magic from a player that's particularly on it that day... Is knowing that on our day, we can absolutely destroy teams and stand toe to toe with the so called "big boys" and not having to rely on a lucky punch. It's still in our locker to bust out an explosive counter. But that overall we are a much more rounded team that being fluid keeps opposition teams guessing our tactics a bit more but the ability to switch is magnificent.

It's been harked before how we were a hybrid of Man City and Liverpool. One teams system is pass based and the other is press based. They both have merits and detriments as both injuries and player loss have crippled them when missing.

 

Leicester City? Despite missing key players for huge spells at a time, we've adapted and coped and just got on with it. 

Those that say that Brendan isn't an elite coach need to explain their definition of elite. Because to produce a team. No. A talented and flexible squad that can chop and change so drastically but still have minimal disruption to the style of play is for me, pretty elite. Is he a ruthless coach who's only desire is to win at all costs ala Mourinho? I don't think so. But he's also created a frightening unit of such unlimited potential that legitimately the next half a decade is actually hard to quantify.

When you consider how good we are now... Coupled with the fact that most of this team is early to mid 20s and not we have yet to reach the peak of any player... I'm not sure I'm certain to the answer of whether Rodgers is an elite yet because his fruits have yet to fully mature and ripen.

When these boys finally mature into men... 

 

Sorry to come over all David Attenborough, but they don't.

 

Wolves hunt in packs, foxes are solitary hunters.

[ARM1968]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Sorry to come over all David Attenborough, but they don't.

 

Wolves hunt in packs, foxes are solitary hunters.

Bin dipping chicken murdering fiends. Quite beautiful though. 

[StriderHiryu]

11 hours ago, LC/FC said:

There in lies a problem with the "Mahrez replacement"

There isn't one. Unless that Godlike talent  mixes in with hard graft, which is the whole ethos of the team, we'll never have another Magician in the way we did with Riyad by the way we are as a team now.

 

Harvey Barnes has 13 goals and 4 assists this season, 9 of those goals coming in the Premier League. Mahrez in his best season got 17 goals (!), 11 assists which is likely impossible to match, but in his final season he had 10 goals and 12 assists, which I think is achievable by someone. Barnes isn't that far off!

 

Maddison and Barnes really stepped up this season in terms of goal contributions. Nacho recently as well. But in our "first" team, if we had 3 players that could get 10-15 goals in that front 3, we'd be cooking with gas. Man City have scored 10 more goals than us this season, and conceded 10 fewer also. Our defense is good IMO and if we didn't have so many injuries probably would have conceded fewer than the 32 we have so far. We are the 3rd best goalscorers which is really good, but if we wanted to win the league we'd need to score even more.

 

Can we win win the league again? Probably not, but it shouldn't stop us dreaming! Players like Tielemans, Soyucnu, Ndidi, Maddison and Barnes aren't at their physical peak yet! If all of them were with us ages 27-28 we'd have a real chance IMO.

 

 

Edited 16 March 2021 by StriderHiryu

[Koke]

Striker + RM/wideman needed to take us up a notch.

Edited 16 March 2021 by Koke

[ARM1968]

2 hours ago, Koke said:

Striker + RM/wideman needed to take us up a notch.

Tactics. I like it. 

[Koke]

3 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Tactics. I like it. 

 

Thought it was the transfer thread tbh

 

[LC/FC]

5 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Sorry to come over all David Attenborough, but they don't.

 

Wolves hunt in packs, foxes are solitary hunters.

I actually knew that and probably from an Attenborough wild life series too!

I am aware that the analogy can break down because I know scientifically that Foxes are categorised as Vulpes

 

Which then is actually a sub category of Canines.

Which is the scientific name for Dogs, who do hunt in packs. So somewhere in Fox DNA there's a pack hunter!

[LC/FC]

4 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Harvey Barnes has 13 goals and 4 assists this season, 9 of those goals coming in the Premier League. Mahrez in his best season got 17 goals (!), 11 assists which is likely impossible to match, but in his final season he had 10 goals and 12 assists, which I think is achievable by someone. Barnes isn't that far off!

 

Maddison and Barnes really stepped up this season in terms of goal contributions. Nacho recently as well. But in our "first" team, if we had 3 players that could get 10-15 goals in that front 3, we'd be cooking with gas. Man City have scored 10 more goals than us this season, and conceded 10 fewer also. Our defense is good IMO and if we didn't have so many injuries probably would have conceded fewer than the 32 we have so far. We are the 3rd best goalscorers which is really good, but if we wanted to win the league we'd need to score even more.

 

Can we win win the league again? Probably not, but it shouldn't stop us dreaming! Players like Tielemans, Soyucnu, Ndidi, Maddison and Barnes aren't at their physical peak yet! If all of them were with us ages 27-28 we'd have a real chance IMO.

 

 

You know what I meant. It's not the numbers but the time and allowance of Mahrez to unlock all doors as we used to be. We're not just a 2 or 3 man team. Now everyone has a key to unlock things so we're not solely reliant on 1 key creative player to do something special. And

Harvey is a huge grafter compared to Riyad, let's not even pretend that's debatable but it's not like as a team we're expressly catering to Barnes' ability alone. In a team like Man City Riyad is just 1 of many expensive World talents but even he has found out he's just another big fish in small pond full of other big fish and it's there it's a team effort even as overpaid World class talents.

But since we can't overpay like they can, sorry to sound like Dyche but with Man City it's actually fair, we are doing what we can as best as we always have done. Recruit those hidden gems before anyone else and grow from within.

So yeah the next 5 years will be very interesting.

[OhYesNdidi]

4 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Harvey Barnes has 13 goals and 4 assists this season, 9 of those goals coming in the Premier League. Mahrez in his best season got 17 goals (!), 11 assists which is likely impossible to match, but in his final season he had 10 goals and 12 assists, which I think is achievable by someone. Barnes isn't that far off!

 

Maddison and Barnes really stepped up this season in terms of goal contributions. Nacho recently as well. But in our "first" team, if we had 3 players that could get 10-15 goals in that front 3, we'd be cooking with gas. Man City have scored 10 more goals than us this season, and conceded 10 fewer also. Our defense is good IMO and if we didn't have so many injuries probably would have conceded fewer than the 32 we have so far. We are the 3rd best goalscorers which is really good, but if we wanted to win the league we'd need to score even more.

 

Can we win win the league again? Probably not, but it shouldn't stop us dreaming! Players like Tielemans, Soyucnu, Ndidi, Maddison and Barnes aren't at their physical peak yet! If all of them were with us ages 27-28 we'd have a real chance IMO.

 

 

Barnes is class and I can’t wait to see how he develops but Mahrez managed 10 goals and 12 assists playing infront of simpson, alongside albrighton and Okazaki  and he went awol for about 4 games! Would be frighting in this team though! 

[davieG]

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/match-analysis/fa-cup-202021-manchester-united-vs-leicester-city-tactical-analysis-tactics

 

Taking the bait: How Leicester’s press and clever turnovers exploited Manchester United’s midfield

[LC/FC]

13 minutes ago, davieG said:

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/match-analysis/fa-cup-202021-manchester-united-vs-leicester-city-tactical-analysis-tactics

 

Taking the bait: How Leicester’s press and clever turnovers exploited Manchester United’s midfield

Hmmmmm an article about Leicester City and how they're able to shift formation around and pass, press and counter when needed.

 

Now where have I read something like that before... 

[LC/FC]

https://www.goal.com/en/news/fa-cup-win-man-utd-peak-rodgers-when-will-he-get-respect/12ij4guh32xhr1isy69ak4i8he

 

I'm now starting to feel plagiarised... 

[TaggertvsWise]

On 16/03/2021 at 09:14, Buce said:

 

Sorry to come over all David Attenborough, but they don't.

 

Wolves hunt in packs, foxes are solitary hunters.

All of him? Poor sod.

[Lambert09]

So whats going on with this high line at the back then? We've been caught out so many times by this and its becoming more of an Achilles heel for us than corners. 

 

Is it as simple as is its harder to play people offside with a 3 than a 2? Or is there more to it. I found it very strange that given the lack of pressure from Palace in the second half that we found our defenders so high when they had the ball, especially given that pace is their only asset. 

[The_77]

1 minute ago, Lambert09 said:

So whats going on with this high line at the back then? We've been caught out so many times by this and its becoming more of an Achilles heel for us than corners. 

 

Is it as simple as is its harder to play people offside with a 3 than a 2? Or is there more to it. I found it very strange that given the lack of pressure from Palace in the second half that we found our defenders so high when they had the ball, especially given that pace is their only asset. 

We push Cags and Fofana (especially Fofana) out very wide and high up the pitch. With 3 CBs in that sort of setup, there are going to be plenty of gaps. Add the two wingbacks, and it’s always going to be more difficult to hold a steadier line with 5 players, especially if a wingback is racing back after making a run up the pitch. 

[Lambert09]

53 minutes ago, The_77 said:

We push Cags and Fofana (especially Fofana) out very wide and high up the pitch. With 3 CBs in that sort of setup, there are going to be plenty of gaps. Add the two wingbacks, and it’s always going to be more difficult to hold a steadier line with 5 players, especially if a wingback is racing back after making a run up the pitch. 

It is a huge issue though. The west ham goal in particular was shocking. But crystal palace cut through us twice with it yesterday. 
 

Really hoping they are working on it as if we can get that right we will be solid! 

[Stadt]

8 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

It is a huge issue though. The west ham goal in particular was shocking. But crystal palace cut through us twice with it yesterday. 
 

Really hoping they are working on it as if we can get that right we will be solid! 

You inevitably leave space somewhere on the pitch, with a 532/5212 it’s the opposition fullbacks who don’t have an immediate player pressuring them so the backline has to push up to retain compactness. We’ve been caught out by a few long balls but not squeezing high would have worse consequences. We’d be very easy to play through centrally because the distances would be too large if we held a deeper line 

[An Sionnach]

9 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

It is a huge issue though. The west ham goal in particular was shocking. But crystal palace cut through us twice with it yesterday. 
 

Really hoping they are working on it as if we can get that right we will be solid! 

Have you noticed that Wilf is off the boil. Playing OK but way below his best so less protection for the CBs.