Guest MattP Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 Anyone been watching any of the old elections during the lockdown on BBC parliament or is no one as sad as me? Some of the things have been quite fascinating, watching 1959 today and huge Tory majorities coming in across Liverpool and Labour sweeping up in towns. Also saw the entrance of a young Jeremy Thorpe and Margaret Thatcher arrive in the commons for the first time. No exit polls at the start, just reporters in the streets asking mobs of people what they thought would happen. In a pub at one point and the poor reporter got a drunken welshman say the Tories or Labour didn't care about him two girls were tugging his coat shouting "listen to the women" - some things don't change. 1992 was a right mess - exit poll completely wrong and some unbelievable scenes at counts, at one point a BBC reporter asks a black Tory candidate called John Taylor whether is was a "good idea for a coloured candidate to stand in Cheltenham" - the national front were asking people to vote Lib Dem to stop him winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Teapot Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 Are we still allowed to post polls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 16 May 2020 Author Share Posted 16 May 2020 Just now, Abrasive fox said: Are we still allowed to post polls? Only if it points one way 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 1 hour ago, Mike Oxlong said: Ah, ok. So that’s how we get into a you’re scum is worse than our scum argument. I’ll pass on that one myself 👍 Sure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 34 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said: Are we still allowed to post polls? Given the week the government has had that's a result for them. Will be interesting to see if there has been a shift in the actual national election polling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 52 minutes ago, MattP said: Anyone been watching any of the old elections during the lockdown on BBC parliament or is no one as sad as me? Some of the things have been quite fascinating, watching 1959 today and huge Tory majorities coming in across Liverpool and Labour sweeping up in towns. Also saw the entrance of a young Jeremy Thorpe and Margaret Thatcher arrive in the commons for the first time. No exit polls at the start, just reporters in the streets asking mobs of people what they thought would happen. In a pub at one point and the poor reporter got a drunken welshman say the Tories or Labour didn't care about him two girls were tugging his coat shouting "listen to the women" - some things don't change. 1992 was a right mess - exit poll completely wrong and some unbelievable scenes at counts, at one point a BBC reporter asks a black Tory candidate called John Taylor whether is was a "good idea for a coloured candidate to stand in Cheltenham" - the national front were asking people to vote Lib Dem to stop him winning. Haven't watched during lockdown but am sad enough to have watched several on YouTube in the past. Quite educational re. history, social change etc. Yes, the party support bases have shifted a lot over the decades, even during my lifetime. In the 70s, without ever having a meaningful majority, Labour had a lot of small-town seats in SE England, not to mention swathes in industrial small towns/rural areas. Likewise, in the 80s I think the Tories still had seats in every major city (Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield etc.) In about 1950, the Tories had more than half the seats in Scotland, I think - then Labour had all but a handful until about 2010, of course. 1992 was a shocker for polling. Most polls up to election day had Labour narrowly ahead - even more misaligned than the exit poll, which had them neck and neck, heading for a hung parliament. There was a very high turnout. I imagine the Tory campaign based on "Labour's tax bombshell" successfully scared a lot of disillusioned voters into turning out and voting Tory....though Kinnock's ridiculous "we-eere alrrright!" speech can't have helped! Easy to forget how unusual a black candidate was then (only 28 years ago). It was a big deal in 1987 when Labour got 3 black MPs elected for the first time (though there had been a few Anglo-Indians before). A lot fewer women MPs, too - Thatcher had about 1 other woman in her cabinet, I think. There were no black Tory MPs in 1992 and selecting Taylor for Cheltenham (a very white marginal) was seen as either brave and principled or foolhardy. He lost fairly narrowly, I think, but almost certainly due to a racist minority - the Tories held similar seats where they had a white candidate.....that's not a party political point, more a social one: the Labour vote was down in the seats won by Abbott, Grant & Boateng in 1987, too, as I recall. Taylor ended up in the House of Lords - and then ended up in jail during the expenses scandal (along with several Labour MPs, before I'm accused of bias). Here, specially for you, is a TV profile of the 1945 election, focusing on Kettering, won by Labour then (fat chance now) - unseated Tory MP one John Profumo...... some amazing far-back accents from Tories, Labour & broadcasters alike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 1 hour ago, Abrasive fox said: Are we still allowed to post polls? Interesting stuff. In a way, I'm surprised it's not more of a deficit given the government's catastrophic ineptitude. It's likely to get worse before it gets better, and I expect Sunak's extension of furlough has limited a lot of the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Teapot Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 4 minutes ago, Bilo said: Interesting stuff. In a way, I'm surprised it's not more of a deficit given the government's catastrophic ineptitude. It's likely to get worse before it gets better, and I expect Sunak's extension of furlough has limited a lot of the damage. Data taken over a week rather than a day so could get worse I imagine. Hancock's not had a good week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 32 minutes ago, MattP said: Given the week the government has had that's a result for them. Will be interesting to see if there has been a shift in the actual national election polling. I'm not sure that there will on the latter. The electorate know that Labour has a vastly superior leader to their predecessor, but it'll take time to repair the Labour 'brand' for the electorate after five years of mismanagement. It's like some still expect us to play the same style of football as we did under Ranieri because it's synonymous with our title success, despite us not having played that way for ages. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 Just now, Abrasive fox said: Data taken over a week rather than a day so could get worse I imagine. Hancock's not had a good week. Johnson and Hancock being blatantly dishonest about the care homes scandal, together with the rise in the R rate that they've suddenly decided is unimportant, as well as the rows over the reopening of schools are all factors that are extremely unlikely to raise confidence in the government either. The reality is that they're going to need a good poll lead as a 'cushion' as we move from the 'rally round the flag' stage to the more analytical reflective stage where the country begins to ask how it got so bad and how much it's all going to cost, where almost much every country's government is going to see a sharp dip in the confidence ratings. If they don't have that gap to fall back on, you get the sense that several Cabinet members will feel nervous about their jobs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigstonWanderer Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 1 hour ago, MattP said: Anyone been watching any of the old elections during the lockdown on BBC parliament or is no one as sad as me? Some of the things have been quite fascinating, watching 1959 today and huge Tory majorities coming in across Liverpool and Labour sweeping up in towns. Also saw the entrance of a young Jeremy Thorpe and Margaret Thatcher arrive in the commons for the first time. No exit polls at the start, just reporters in the streets asking mobs of people what they thought would happen. In a pub at one point and the poor reporter got a drunken welshman say the Tories or Labour didn't care about him two girls were tugging his coat shouting "listen to the women" - some things don't change. 1992 was a right mess - exit poll completely wrong and some unbelievable scenes at counts, at one point a BBC reporter asks a black Tory candidate called John Taylor whether is was a "good idea for a coloured candidate to stand in Cheltenham" - the national front were asking people to vote Lib Dem to stop him winning. Hope you had a box of tissues 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 13 minutes ago, Bilo said: I'm not sure that there will on the latter. The electorate know that Labour has a vastly superior leader to their predecessor, but it'll take time to repair the Labour 'brand' for the electorate after five years of mismanagement. It's like some still expect us to play the same style of football as we did under Ranieri because it's synonymous with our title success, despite us not having played that way for ages. It was summed up well by someone last week who I struggle to remember. "We have a shiny new front door, but the house is still dilapidated" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Teapot Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 10 minutes ago, MattP said: It was summed up well by someone last week who I struggle to remember. "We have a shiny new front door, but the house is still dilapidated" 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 1 minute ago, MattP said: It was summed up well by someone last week who I struggle to remember. "We have a shiny new front door, but the house is still dilapidated" There's definitely action needed. A Shadow Cabinet with surprisingly few morons was a welcome start, and he achieved more in engaging the Jewish community against antisemitism in his first five days than Corbyn did in five years. The problem is that saying a Labour leader is doing a better job than Jeremy Corbyn is like praising a Leicester manager for doing better than Peter Taylor. So far though, the signs are promising. The communications are better, he isn't running a mile from the issue of patriotism, he's tearing Boris a new arsehole in PMQs, his Shadow Cabinet is an improvement and the Momentum bods have been largely disempowered within the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 35 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said: This supports what Matt said really. Keir has made probably the best possible start and is making inroads in all polls except for the voting intention. Maybe people are waiting to see who lies behind, like for instance Abbott was probably more damaging for Corbyn than Corbyn himself. We know Nandy is a good politician so hopefully once people see Dodds and Thomas-Symonds, then maybe opinion might start shifting that the is indeed a different Labour although to be honest, I'm a member and I know very little about either of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 May 2020 Share Posted 16 May 2020 Approval ratings mean bugger all really, on that I'd give positive points to Starmer, Johnson and Sturgeon but I wouldn't ever vote for two of those three. The "Who would make the best Prime Minister" question has a bit of merit in it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Teapot Posted 17 May 2020 Share Posted 17 May 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, MattP said: Approval ratings mean bugger all really, on that I'd give positive points to Starmer, Johnson and Sturgeon but I wouldn't ever vote for two of those three. The "Who would make the best Prime Minister" question has a bit of merit in it though. Don't think they mean bugger all....maybe for you if you're wedded to one party, but the stark drop for johnson is significant. We're a long way off an election but it will be the first time since at least 2010 a Labour leader will have a higher approval rating than a Conservative i imagine, and thats significant for Boris who bases so much of his politics on his own popular appeal. Its not the be all and end all but it is very significant. Edited 17 May 2020 by Abrasive fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted 17 May 2020 Share Posted 17 May 2020 On 14/05/2020 at 19:54, StriderHiryu said: The acid test for the government will no doubt come later in the year as we try to recover from lockdown measures and to rebuild the economy. In the context of pursuing their fantasy no-deal Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 17 May 2020 Share Posted 17 May 2020 10 hours ago, MattP said: Approval ratings mean bugger all really, on that I'd give positive points to Starmer, Johnson and Sturgeon but I wouldn't ever vote for two of those three. The "Who would make the best Prime Minister" question has a bit of merit in it though. On 01/04/2020 at 20:59, MattP said: Find it surprising that leaders approval ratings are going up in this crisis - I genuinely thought it would be the opposite. (He isn't on here but Conte has shot up as well) On 28/03/2020 at 17:25, MattP said: Trump actually improving in the approval ratings. I didn't think you could win an election in these circumstances but you might just be able to buy one. 🤔 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 17 May 2020 Share Posted 17 May 2020 1 hour ago, Abrasive fox said: Don't think they mean bugger all....maybe for you if you're wedded to one party, but the stark drop for johnson is significant. We're a long way off an election but it will be the first time since at least 2010 a Labour leader will have a higher approval rating than a Conservative i imagine, and thats significant for Boris who bases so much of his politics on his own popular appeal. Its not the be all and end all but it is very significant. Politics is a bit weird at the moment but once this is over, starmer could well provide a real alternative in five years time. I think if brexit goes badly then the next election will be fought v much on the basis that the brexiteers screwed it all up v the pandemic messed it all up ..... starmer needs a decent cabinet around him ........ he is eminently electable which labour haven’t had since Blair ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoleftfeet Posted 17 May 2020 Share Posted 17 May 2020 2 hours ago, Abrasive fox said: Don't think they mean bugger all....maybe for you if you're wedded to one party, but the stark drop for johnson is significant. We're a long way off an election but it will be the first time since at least 2010 a Labour leader will have a higher approval rating than a Conservative i imagine, and thats significant for Boris who bases so much of his politics on his own popular appeal. Its not the be all and end all but it is very significant. Was the last election really just won on Boris's popularity or the Issue that still many cant accept Brexit. If labour want to win the next election then they may well need to let the fact that we are ondependant of Europe continue if they want to better fund things like education of health care they may have to choose their battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 17 May 2020 Author Share Posted 17 May 2020 (edited) Anyone seen the latest crap they've got on Keir ? Wow they are getting desperate. The fact he owns some land which he gave to his mum. Going off the angle that he can't be a 'man of the people' because he is rich. What an absolute farce our media is/can be. Edited 17 May 2020 by StanSP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 17 May 2020 Author Share Posted 17 May 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 17 May 2020 Share Posted 17 May 2020 3 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said: 🤔 I knew they, and more were on here, just hadn't got round to looking for them. Remember, approval ratings don't matter unless they are good for Boris and Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 17 May 2020 Share Posted 17 May 2020 59 minutes ago, StanSP said: Them lot will try and do anything to try and bring left wing politics down. I am amazed how much shite the Daily Mail/The Sun write and how much people believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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