Getting brexit done!

[Spudulike]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

Well you can't praise the UK for playing hardball and then moan about the EU doing the same. It was obvious that a trading bloc representing almost 30 countries was always going to have a stronger hand than one country on its own.

 

It's concerning the people who led this campaign, and who are now running the country, weren't bright enough to recognise that.

 

 

That's not how it was sold to the electorate though, was it...

What?! I'm no Conservative voter but it was pretty clear to me. The WA (the deal) was signed after passing through the Commons and then we would enter into a UK/EU negotiation for an FTA after we left. 

[l444ry]

7 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Not quite yet and probably won't need to now. 

 

3 weeks? 

Bozo made it clear that he will not be bound by the Political Declaration, which sets out the ground rules for a trade deal. Surely you remember the furore that caused?

[Voll Blau]

2 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

What?! I'm no Conservative voter but it was pretty clear to me. The WA (the deal) was signed after passing through the Commons and then we would enter into a UK/EU negotiation for an FTA after we left. 

The phrase used to win hearts and minds was "oven ready". It clearly wasn't.

[Spudulike]

2 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Bozo made it clear that he will not be bound by the Political Declaration, which sets out the ground rules for a trade deal. Surely you remember the furore that caused?

I thought you meant 3 weeks after signing the WA (ie the Internal Market Bill). 

[Spudulike]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

The phrase used to win hearts and minds was "oven ready". It clearly wasn't.

The WA was though. Why would anyone think it was an oven ready FTA before the negotiation (that EU wouldn't discuss up to that point) had even started? 

[Voll Blau]

18 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The WA was though. Why would anyone think it was an oven ready FTA before the negotiation (that EU wouldn't discuss up to that point) had even started? 

Because the phrase used wasn't "oven ready WA" or "oven ready FTA". It was "oven ready Brexit deal". All encompassing.

[Spudulike]

10 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Because the phrase used wasn't "oven ready WA" or "oven ready FTA". It was "oven ready Brexit deal". All encompassing.

Are you saying that some voters are a bit daft? You don't need to answer that 

[st albans fox]

It’s quite strange really .... thinking back to 2016 and recall some of my staff asking my opinion on brexit. Not my place to tell them how to vote so I gave them an opinion that no one actually knew if leaving would be a good or bad thing over time but my personal view was that now was probably not the best time for us to be throwing the balls in the air and seeing where they would land. 
 

Just couldn’t imagine that roll forward 4 and a half years (how could it take that long) and we would be on the cusp of leaving without a FTA in the midst of a global pandemic !!  
 

life has a habit of writing a script way stranger than any writer could dream up and retain any credibility!!

[Alf Bentley]

Conservative Party 2019 manifesto.............

 

"Our deal is the only one on the table. It is signed, sealed and ready.

It puts the whole country on a path to a new free trade agreement with the EU.

This will be a new relationship based on free trade and friendly cooperation, not on the EU’s treaties or EU law"

 

Nothing much there about rewriting the WA and not signing any FTA, never mind mass lorry parks, a border between Kent & England or Icelandic Cod Wars, The Sequel. 

[Voll Blau]

2 hours ago, Spudulike said:

Are you saying that some voters are a bit daft? You don't need to answer that 

I will answer, because I'm not saying that at all.

 

I'm saying the deal was mis-sold to the electorate by the most disingenuous bunch of people ever to run this country. And it looks like we'll all suffer for it.

[josh_baskin]

I voted to remain but the majority of the voting general public wanted to leave.

Respecting, accepting and honouring the outcome of any democratic vote is always the best thing for any society.

[bovril]

The "oven-ready deal" was obviously the WA. It was also obvious at the time that the Conservatives were happy to let people believe this was the future relationship and the 'end' of Brexit, when in fact they were quite prepared to go with no trade deal all along. I mean they are dishonest shits but it doesn't help that the majority of people have no ****ing idea what is actually going on. 

[bovril]

10 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

I will answer, because I'm not saying that at all.

 

I'm saying the deal was mis-sold to the electorate by the most disingenuous bunch of people ever to run this country. And it looks like we'll all suffer for it.

You can say it. A lot of people are pretty uneducated and I would wager that the majority of the public knew little about the EU and trade before the referendum. I am by no means an expert on it myself. 

I don't know why we pussyfoot around this so much in England. We find it very hard to look in the mirror. 

Edited 16 October 2020 by bovril

[bovril]

oops

Edited 16 October 2020 by bovril

[ealingfox]

4 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Both sides are posturing.

I'm actually glad the Govt are not rolling over.

There'll probably be a last minute deal.

If not, I blame the EU.

They've been difficult from the start.

 

(PS I voted remain)

 

When specifically do you think the EU have 'been difficult'? In a way which doesn't constitute 'not rolling over' or looking out for the interests of their side in a negotiation, which you clearly can't have an issue with as you've praised our Government for it.

[Nalis]

7 minutes ago, bovril said:

You can say it. A lot of voters are pretty thick and I would wager that the majority of the public knew little about the EU and trade before the referendum. I am by no means an expert on it myself. 

I don't know why we pussyfoot around this so much in England. We find it very hard to look in the mirror. 

I find the Benedict Cumberbach / Dominic Cummings channel 4 drama and the Trump 2016 tactics fascinating on voter behaviour and manipulation.

[Voll Blau]

13 minutes ago, bovril said:

You can say it. A lot of people are pretty uneducated and I would wager that the majority of the public knew little about the EU and trade before the referendum. I am by no means an expert on it myself. 

I don't know why we pussyfoot around this so much in England. We find it very hard to look in the mirror. 

I place the blame firmly on the people charged with executing this, not the people who voted for it in good faith. People had all sorts of reasons for backing this (good mates of nine included). The big picture is the outcome is going to let us all down, regardless of what we think about it.

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

I place the blame firmly on the people charged with executing this, not the people who voted for it in good faith. People had all sorts of reasons for backing this (good mates of nine included). The big picture is the outcome is going to let us all down, regardless of what we think about it.

I'm not saying I blame people, I am sceptical of some aspects of the EU myself. I do find it worrying how poor the level of debate is in the UK and I don't think that's exclusive to Brexiters at all. 

 

I would though have more sympathy for Brexit voters if so many of them hadn't referred to remain voters as at best liberal elitists and at worse traitors. But, whatever. As you said we're all ****ed and I won't be indulging in any schadenfreude myself. 

[Saxondale]

4 minutes ago, bovril said:

I would though have more sympathy for Brexit voters if so many of them hadn't referred to remain voters as at best liberal elitists and at worse traitors. But, whatever. As you said we're all ****ed and I won't be indulging in any schadenfreude myself. 

I would be engaging in schadenfreude, but it's not possible, because we're all frigged.

 

That's the thing with the flagshaggers' Brexit wankfest: we all have to pay the price.

[josh_baskin]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

You can say it. A lot of people are pretty uneducated and I would wager that the majority of the public knew little about the EU and trade before the referendum. I am by no means an expert on it myself. 

I don't know why we pussyfoot around this so much in England. We find it very hard to look in the mirror. 

Doesn’t matter how educated you are, you vote based on how it effects your daily life, I imagine a lot of the now broken communities in the coastal areas that had there livelihoods desecrated by the eu greatly reducing there fishing quotas need to look that far into it.

[Saxondale]

18 minutes ago, josh_baskin said:

Doesn’t matter how educated you are, you vote based on how it effects your daily life, I imagine a lot of the now broken communities in the coastal areas that had there livelihoods desecrated by the eu greatly reducing there fishing quotas need to look that far into it.

The number of people working in the fishing industry is absolutely tiny.

 

If you want to talk about the fishing industry, how about the inescapable fact that the majority of the fish and seafood that we catch in British waters is exported overseas - including to the EU. The fish we actually eat (cod basically) is imported.

 

So now they'll be tariffs on fish imports and exports. What's that going to do to the fishermen?

[davieG]

42 minutes ago, Saxondale said:

The number of people working in the fishing industry is absolutely tiny.

 

If you want to talk about the fishing industry, how about the inescapable fact that the majority of the fish and seafood that we catch in British waters is exported overseas - including to the EU. The fish we actually eat (cod basically) is imported.

 

So now they'll be tariffs on fish imports and exports. What's that going to do to the fishermen?

To be fair it didn’t used to be tiny until we joined the Common Market and Heath lied to them to get their votes promising that nothing would change. Now we have the whole of the EU fishing in waters that used to be just for British Fishermen.

[twoleftfeet]

This reminds of the britania music club easy to join almost impossible to leave. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

8 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

This reminds of the britania music club easy to join almost impossible to leave. 

Haha now that's a blast from the past !!

[Guest Fktf]

as if we're dealing with this crap in the middle of a pandemic. Priorities seem a bit off in both sides.