Players development vs the team

[Chrysalis]

This seems to be a subject some people don't want to address.  It applies to any player, although in recent times its probably been most apparent with Nacho and Barnes.

 

Couple of questions for those who seem to think we can carry players for months on end.

 

How long do young players get given to improve?  Pretend you been asked by your boss so you "have" to give an answer.

 

Does a player's development needs have higher priority than the good of the team?

[themightyfin]

Even £50 million signings sometimes take 2 or 3 years to adjust to new surroundings.

Seems Barnes is the scapegoat at the moment,unbelievable considering the run we are on and hes played most of the time during this remarkable run.

Seem to remember the same being said of Chilwell about a year ago and look what happened there.

Trouble is, now some of our fans have been spoilt and now expect us to have the right of 11 Messi's in the team.

Stop the moaning. Enjoy the fact we have an amazing  ambitions club, owners, team and manager and enjoy the ride. 

What a question! How long do you give players to improve?

Look at

 

Maddison 

Ndidi 

Chilwell

Soyuncu

Hamza

Barnes

 

All improved dramatically over the last couple of years.

 

I think whatever we are doing is working so to even question the powers that be with development of our youngsters is unbelievable. 

[Wolfox]

We aren’t carrying anybody…. All players out subject to peaks and troughs in form

 

The tendency towards over reaction, based one draw and a disappointing performance, on the back of a record breaking winning streak is quite remarkable 

[Nicolo Barella]

Patience in our players has already paid off many times over, most recently with Iheanacho saving us 3 points against Everton. I'm happy to trust Rodgers's intuition on which players to stick with and which to move on like Silva.

[Mickyblueeyes]

Who from the usual starting 11 are we carrying ? Every player has made a worth while contribution this season. 

 

In terms of young players, you need give them at least a year to show they’ve got the ability to play at this level but it generally is an ongoing thing. Every players development takes time. For example, we find ourselves in an unusual position where we have quite a few youngish players at one time. Consistency takes time to development but what counter acts that is there moments in games. 

 

Its a process that requires a bit of intelligence from the watching public - off games are sometime a by product of this process. Can we go out and buy a £50 million ready made superstar ? No. So this is how the club produces their own.

[Shmokeee]

25 points out of 27

2nd in the league separating the two most dominant teams the league has ever seen.

Best defence in the league.

Top goal scorer( by a distance).

 

Equates to ‘carrying players months on end’

 

You sir, are an ostrich...,

[Aus Fox]

We have just won 8 in a row, we are not carrying anyone! FFS we are second in the league, one draw and this place melts down.

Young players are inconsistent that’s a fact wherever you go.

Question back: How do you expect players to develop without playing them?

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, themightyfin said:

Even £50 million signings sometimes take 2 or 3 years to adjust to new surroundings.

Seems Barnes is the scapegoat at the moment,unbelievable considering the run we are on and hes played most of the time during this remarkable run.

Seem to remember the same being said of Chilwell about a year ago and look what happened there.

Trouble is, now some of our fans have been spoilt and now expect us to have the right of 11 Messi's in the team.

Stop the moaning. Enjoy the fact we have an amazing  ambitions club, owners, team and manager and enjoy the ride. 

What a question! How long do you give players to improve?

Look at

 

Maddison 

Ndidi 

Chilwell

Soyuncu

Hamza

Barnes

 

All improved dramatically over the last couple of years.

 

I think whatever we are doing is working so to even question the powers that be with development of our youngsters is unbelievable. 

 

I've had this argument about Chilwell for over a couple of years with my mate. He loves to say "he has no end product".  There are only 19 more players in the league across all positions with more assists than Chilwell and out of the full backs it's only the Liverpool pair with more. I'm not sure what he wants from his left back, to defend like Maldini and attack like Ronaldo would be my guess.

 

It's the same with the stick Barnes gets. There are only 9 players in the PL this season with more assists. I think Barnes has the potential to be like Mo Salah but I do think Harvey is a slow burner and it will take two or three years before we see him at his best. He's quick, strong and direct and certainly has the ability to be a 10 goal, 10 assists man a season. Whilst I believe our two attacking wide forwards are the weakest area of the current team I'd be loathe to take him out of the first XI as it's counterproductive. With the most assists in the squad no one can say he isn't pulling his weight whatsoever but he's so good at his best we should be getting more out of him but it will come.

 

I think most of the moaning against our players is people thinking the grass is greener and underestimate our own players and overestimate other teams players. We're second in the table for a reason. 

Edited 17 December 2019 by Gerard

[Mike Oxlong]

The team and what is best for the good of the team isn’t defined by  a moment in time. It is the now and the future. It’s a judgment call on a case by case basis as to how much time should be given to a player so I can’t see how there can be a definitive answer to the OP

 

Vardy didn’t have a great first season did he but he has more than repaid the patience and investment in his potential 

[Xen]

Given where we are in the league we're unlikely to win the title, but we're also unlikely to miss out on CL football, which means that 'all' there is to play for is the £5-6m of prize money from league position.

 

Over the next 21 games we're not likely to lose 13 more points by playing Barnes, for instance, when compared to whoever his replacement is (Albrighton? Perez?), so we wouldn't miss out on CL football as a result of him getting game time. As a result I don't see why we wouldn't continue to put our faith in him, especially as we all know what he could be capable of when he really hits his stride.

 

 

It's not like we're benching a superstar in favour of a youngster in the middle of a close-fought title race. We're rotating one good player with a promising (also good) player whilst fairly secure with our club's position.

[Tommo220]

2 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

This seems to be a subject some people don't want to address.  It applies to any player, although in recent times its probably been most apparent with Nacho and Barnes.

 

Couple of questions for those who seem to think we can carry players for months on end.

 

How long do young players get given to improve?  Pretend you been asked by your boss so you "have" to give an answer.

 

Does a player's development needs have higher priority than the good of the team?

How long would you have given Vardy to bed in to the Championship and/or Premier League?  Would you have binned him off for that paltry hand full of goals in his first season with us, or the 5 goals in 30 odd games in his first season in the Prem? 

 

We'd be a pretty different team now if we hadn't shown faith in him by keep playing him wouldn't we!

Edited 17 December 2019 by Tommo220

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Granted I've not watched a lot of Leicester games this season but what I have seen the notion that you have been "carrying" Barnes is a bit ridiculous imo. He's done fine anytime I've seen him, do you want more from him, of course but with young players that takes time and perseverance.  I could see the point in moaning if this perseverance was impacting results but it's the exact opposite, you've been on a terrific run of form and Barnes has been part of that.

 

If as a club, fan base or whatever you don't want to sacrifice and have the patience to let young player make their mistakes then just don't bother with a youth academy and buy players off the shelf.  You can't put a young player into the team and expect them to immediately become consistent, it's a gradual progression.

 

It's maybe lost in today's cash rich version of football but the principle remains the same, young players from 16-22 are undertaking an apprenticeship like in any profession and as such should be allowed to make mistakes and most importantly learn from them along the way.

Edited 17 December 2019 by henrik_62

[Izzy]

5 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

This seems to be a subject some people don't want to address.  

Because it’s a non issue?

[Fox92]

Strange how Barnes draws criticism yet Albrighton and Gray have similar numbers. Neither of them get anything like 5 league goals a season.

 

Barnes was playing for WBA this time last year, in the second division, for a side that aren't half as good as they are this season. It's alright people saying "he has been in our team for a year now" but at least three of those months were under a previous manager in addition to Barnes not actually starting every week.

 

Ideally, it'd be good for him to be getting loaned out again but to another PL side but like I said our other wide options aren't exactly outstanding. We need a quality winger and we haven't had that since Mahrez.

[Manini]

This is getting ridiculous now I’m sorry 

[murphy]

The thing is that while Barnes is still developing, he is also still worth a starting place and contributing.  He's not a passenger.

 

The flip side of OPs argument is to spend big which is high risk and with a good chance that it may not work whilst consigning Barnes to the bench and stalling his path to becoming the player most of us can see he has the potential to become.  Lose lose.

[Oxfordfox83]

17 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Strange how Barnes draws criticism yet Albrighton and Gray have similar numbers. Neither of them get anything like 5 league goals a season.

 

Barnes was playing for WBA this time last year, in the second division, for a side that aren't half as good as they are this season. It's alright people saying "he has been in our team for a year now" but at least three of those months were under a previous manager in addition to Barnes not actually starting every week.

 

Ideally, it'd be good for him to be getting loaned out again but to another PL side but like I said our other wide options aren't exactly outstanding. We need a quality winger and we haven't had that since Mahrez.

How would a loan be better for him or for us? Serious question, I just don’t follow.

[Bats8711]

I don’t get it. The whole reason we’re in a position where maybe every other club in England bar 2 is envious of us is because we have been giving young players a chance to play. And it’s the only way success is sustainable. Maybe Barnes “works out” (and I’d argue he already has), maybe he doesn’t. You win some you lose some. But when a certain percentage do work out and you essentially create a valuable asset - whether you sell or keep - out of nothing, that’s how Leicester City becomes a Champions League team. It’s literally working in front of our eyes but some people don’t see it.  

[kingston_fox]

Christ.... Imagine we had lost at the weekend 

 

2nd in the league, one of the exciting teams in the league with a youthful side, hardly dropped points all season and playing in a 1/4 final tonight... Think they know what they are doing.

[Fox92]

46 minutes ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

How would a loan be better for him or for us? Serious question, I just don’t follow.

Plays regular in a decent side... As I said though, I meant if we actually had quality competition out wide but we don’t so it’s irrelevant really.

[coalvillefox]

Seeing us go on a winning streak is liking watching a child blow up a balloon. Each breath is equal to a win and the more we win the bigger the balloon gets, but, the bigger the balloon gets the louder the bang when the winning runs ends and the bigger the over reaction.

[Izzy]

8 minutes ago, coalvillefox said:

Seeing us go on a winning streak is liking watching a child blow up a balloon. Each breath is equal to a win and the more we win the bigger the balloon gets, but, the bigger the balloon gets the louder the bang when the winning runs ends and the bigger the over reaction.

What a beautiful analogy 

 

[Chrysalis]

I appreciate themightyfin's answer of their opinion on how long to give players to develop, I think 2-3 years is a "huge" amount of time to be consistently in the first team when under performing.  But I appreciate the answer thank you, which is what I wanted.

 

Sadly everyone who replied avoided the second question, of whether a player or the team comes first.  Instead seemed more interested to bash my post instead.  It isnt a trick question, there is no right or wrong answer, its just each person's opinion which I wanted to know.

Edited 18 December 2019 by Chrysalis

[The_Rorab]

1 minute ago, Chrysalis said:

I appreciate themightyfin's answer of their opinion on how long to give players to develop, I think 2-3 years is a "huge" amount of time to be consistently in the first team when under performing.  But I appreciate the answer thank you, which is what I wanted.

 

Sadly everyone who replied avoided the second question, of whether a player or the team comes first.  Instead seemed more interested to bash my post instead.  It isnt a trick question, there is no right or wrong answer, its just each person's opinion which I wanted to know.

I think the main issue is that you seem to think the notion of playing Barnes week-in, week-out is detrimental to the team  and only positive to the player himself. I, as do most people here believe it's both positive to the team AND the player - since Barnes is a tidy player who does his bit and will hopefully improve as we play him more and is by no means a passenger.

[Chrysalis]

I think his eagerness to shoot is hurting the team yes.,

 

It is a bit like asking vardy to play CB, and kasper as CF.  People not doing what they best at.  It would hurt barnes development, hence I see it as a conflict of whats best for the team and whats best for the player.

 

The question is a general one tho, so even if you disagree with me on barnes, its still a question I would appreciate an opinion on, even if you think it doesnt apply to barnes or didnt previously apply to nacho.

Edited 18 December 2019 by Chrysalis