Nicolo Barella Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 After all the drama so far this season concerning our wingers, it's nice to see that despite their inconsistencies, Barnes and Perez are well on their way to 10+ assists and 10+ goals respectively, and with a bit of luck, either could crack 10+ goals and assists each. This is definitely improved end product on last season and pleasing to see. Obviously some more end product would be nice, but not everybody in our squad can be perfect and both players seem to have improved over the course of the season so far. For some perspective: excluding Mahrez, Son, and Mane, definitively world class wingers, the only wingers who have gotten more assists than Barnes' 6 so far - Buendia and Traore - have both played much more than him. Traore having played 526 minutes more than him, Buendia playing 395 minutes more than him. In addition, Buendia has scored no goals, and Traore has only matched Barnes, with 4. Only Richarlison (outside of wingers like Salah, Mané, and Sterling) has scored more than Perez with 8 goals, and the other winger he is tied for goals with is Grealish, who is one of the best players outside the traditional "Top 6" this season. So, our wingers obviously aren't at a world class level (yet?) but they clearly are putting in solid numbers that more than compete with the rest of the league's wingers. What is your opinion? Obviously we are likely to sign a winger or even two this summer, would you like the club to go all out and replace both? Would you prefer a way that allowed both to rotate into the squad? Are you happy with both their performances so far this year?
Sly Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 Take away the Southampton game and Perez doesn’t look as effective.
StriderHiryu Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 Both have been decent for sure but if we had a Mahrez type player in the team I think we’d be comfortably second in the table. Liverpool have taken 100 out of 102 points and that level we won’t ever get to! It’s worth noting that both players aren’t natural wide men. Barnes was an ACM in our youth team and has only been converted to a wide forward in the last two seasons. Considering that he is very good and has a lot of natural attributes for the role; he is rapid, can dribble, cross, pick out a man and now is scoring even if his goals aren’t clean strikes. Perez technically did play wide right forward for Newcastle but they played a deep block / counter attack so it was a completely different style of football. He doesn’t have the same natural attributes as Barnes but has proven he can finish. He also works his ass off and you can tell he’s got a bit of a support striker in him because he has made some cracking passes for Vardy over the season. His stats are also better than any single season either Gray or Albrighton has had for us. If you compare the two I think Barnes has the higher ceiling to his game and looks more like a natural. A classic Robben style inside forward is all about driving at players, cutting back onto your favoured foot and bending it top corner. Yesterday was the first time Barnes did it albeit via a huge deflection. Perez’s best position is up for debate and I don’t think either he or Rodgers knows it yet. But you can tell he’s a good player. He has had lots of poor games this season but in recent games has really helped connect the team together. I think this is because Ricardo is playing higher up allowing Perez to drift more centrally. He’s an intelligent player for sure. Both will play an important part next season I feel but we will need extra bodies in there to challenge them. Shame we couldn’t sign Bergwijn as he could have been a great option.
murphy Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 Just to take slight issue with the thread title, Barnes and Perez are not wingers, they play as inside forwards. In terms of numbers, OP makes a very good point Love Barnes but I have to say that I may have a blind spot with Perez. I Just can't see it, even going back to his Newcastle days, but quietly he has built up the numbers and I have to respect his contribution.
sdb Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 They're certainly getting more comfortable in the system. As has been said, they're less wingers and more inside forwards. And it does show when teams break against us in wide areas. We look so exposed. I for one am in no rush to watch Doherty and Traore vs. Chillwell every 4 minutes next game!
Guest Chocolate Teapot Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 2 hours ago, Sly said: Take away the Southampton game and Perez doesn’t look as effective. Take away the games Traore scored in and he doesnt look effective either.
StanSP Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 2 hours ago, Sly said: Take away the Southampton game and Perez doesn’t look as effective. Why take it away? It's part of the season. All the goals and assists count. Just because it was an abnormal result doesn't take away the efforts and ruthlessness we showed in the game, and as a result doesn't take away the stats of assists and goals of everyone included.
Freeman's Wharfer Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 I think you’ve almost touched on the problem: their numbers are in line with everyone in the league except the very top teams’ wingers. But we’re competing with those very top teams. The winger position is more important than it has ever been. As we saw with Mahrez, a truly top class winger can be the difference and both Barnes and Perez across the course of this season haven’t delivered consistently enough. I think we still need to go and sign someone of real quality in that wide area in the summer and let Perez and Barnes fight it out for the other remaining winger slot. Our other wide men (Albrighton and Gray) are lower half Premier League standard so a bit more quality in that area in general could help us improve.
Guest Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 I think the fact that we have actually gone to a back 2 - Evans and Soyuncu - with both wing backs now spending much more time as attacking wingers has helped our "inside forwards" to become more productive. It has also made our backline a lot more porous and accounts for us allowing 2 goals a game now as opposed to being the best defence in the league through the first half of the season. I'm not complaining as the games are certainly more entertaining but we do need to continue working on our cover system with either a midfielder being more aware and able to cover when the opposition attacks with our wing backs up or the inside forwards to continue to improve their covering. It is noticeable that Perez has been running back hard the last few games - but not consistently enough - and that Barnes has started to become defensively more responsible - though he needs to improve his ability to defend. Tielemans is trying to fill the second defensive midfielder role but his speed hurts him which is why I would like to see N'Didi partnered with Hamza as the Box to Box CM. The changing scheme is sure to take time to settle and that is what we are seeing at the moment but I think it's the way to proceed and I'm happy to put up with the growing pains we are encountering.
copunk Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 What makes me laugh is, shinji was held as some sort of god amongst the fanbase, yet ayoze is more effective, offers more overall, has better assist and goals stats, yet gets slagged off every chance by some because he is a bit lightweight and loses rhe ball sometimes, some may say shinji only cost 5 million or so but money is relative in football now, had the crazy fees been brought in then we would have been looking at spending 20 odd mill on shinji, so comparing that to the 30 mill weve spent on perez i would say the return in goals, assists, effort and gameplay ayoze gives us, i rate the lad as a succesful signing
urban.spaceman Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 9 minutes ago, copunk said: What makes me laugh is, shinji was held as some sort of god amongst the fanbase, yet ayoze is more effective, offers more overall, has better assist and goals stats, yet gets slagged off every chance by some because he is a bit lightweight and loses rhe ball sometimes, some may say shinji only cost 5 million or so but money is relative in football now, had the crazy fees been brought in then we would have been looking at spending 20 odd mill on shinji, so comparing that to the 30 mill weve spent on perez i would say the return in goals, assists, effort and gameplay ayoze gives us, i rate the lad as a succesful signing Shinji had a lovely smile when he scored though.
Aus Fox Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 4 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: Shinji had a lovely smile when he scored though. And Perez wanted to fight half the Liverpool team at the final whistle at Anfield
Aus Fox Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 3 hours ago, Sly said: Take away the Southampton game and Perez doesn’t look as effective. Posts like these are pathetic and real of trying to prove a point without having one. Take away Liverpool’s points this season and they would be going down. Why take anything away?
urban.spaceman Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 2 minutes ago, Aus Fox said: And Perez wanted to fight half the Liverpool team at the final whistle at Anfield Yeah but, Shinji’s lovely smile was infectious and made me feel good about myself.
StriderHiryu Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 14 minutes ago, copunk said: What makes me laugh is, shinji was held as some sort of god amongst the fanbase, yet ayoze is more effective, offers more overall, has better assist and goals stats, yet gets slagged off every chance by some because he is a bit lightweight and loses rhe ball sometimes, some may say shinji only cost 5 million or so but money is relative in football now, had the crazy fees been brought in then we would have been looking at spending 20 odd mill on shinji, so comparing that to the 30 mill weve spent on perez i would say the return in goals, assists, effort and gameplay ayoze gives us, i rate the lad as a succesful signing IMO he only gets slagged off because of the transfer fee. If he cost the same as Ghezzal fans would be less irate. I agree it’s ridiculous though! If you compare him to this list of inside forwards signed over the last two seasons who has been the best? - Jahanbaksh - Trossard - Elynoussi - Djenepo - Anderson - James - Shaqiri - Ghezzal - Lucas Moura - Sarr - Pepe - Bernard - Iwobi Compare him to that lot and I think Perez holds up well.
Guest Kopfkino Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 Tbh the problem is less the two starters and more that the options to rotate them are Gray and Albrighton. Gray shows odd glimpses but nowhere near enough and Albrighton has done nothing to suggest he be effective in a Brendan team.
urban.spaceman Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 7 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said: IMO he only gets slagged off because of the transfer fee. If he cost the same as Ghezzal fans would be less irate. I agree it’s ridiculous though! If you compare him to this list of inside forwards signed over the last two seasons who has been the best? - Jahanbaksh - Trossard - Elynoussi - Djenepo - Anderson - James - Shaqiri - Ghezzal - Lucas Moura - Sarr - Pepe - Bernard - Iwobi Compare him to that lot and I think Perez holds up well. In fairness though, apart from Shaqiri and mayyyybee Moura (except for this season), all those players have ended up at struggling mid table/relegation threatened teams. I tend to think if we were linked with a player such as Jahanbaksh and Anderson, and they end up struggling at teams like Brighton and West Ham, then we weren’t in for them in the first place. As will probably be proved this season with Bowen.
Swarles Barkley Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 9 hours ago, Sly said: Take away the Southampton game and Perez doesn’t look as effective. 😂 Unbelievably flawed logic If you take away all of liverpool and man citys points we’re top
KingsX Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 Our "Wingers" We start two sort-of-wide (emphasis on the "sort of") forwards. The only wingers in the squad, Gray and Albrighton, are very decent rotation pieces. The squad is unbalanced. That has to be rectified to unlock its full potential.
Suffolk exile Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 7 hours ago, Aus Fox said: And Perez wanted to fight half the Liverpool team at the final whistle at Anfield Which you would think would lead to him gaining 'legendary' status in my book!
Dan Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 You can't take goals away but it's worth pointing out that Perez has only scored in 4 games this season. His numbers are respectable but I often think you've got to factor in the importance of some goals as well - Mahrez for example could break down a tight defence with one moment of brilliance yet this counts for exactly as much in a goals tally as Perez adding a late 4th against West Ham in a game we've already won. In fairness though both Barnes and Perez have picked up a bit lately. Problem with both is they're both prone to being anaymous.
Vardy Party Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 Great point on our wingers. I do believe that we need a winger however Perez & Barnes have both improved recently. Barnes has added goals to his game & Perez seems to be more involved as well as adding more goals to his tally. I genuinely think Barnes is the real deal, Must improve his shooting but the kid has so potential.
volpeazzurro Posted 2 February 2020 Posted 2 February 2020 12 hours ago, StriderHiryu said: IMO he only gets slagged off because of the transfer fee. If he cost the same as Ghezzal fans would be less irate. I agree it’s ridiculous though! If you compare him to this list of inside forwards signed over the last two seasons who has been the best? - Jahanbaksh - Trossard - Elynoussi - Djenepo - Anderson - James - Shaqiri - Ghezzal - Lucas Moura - Sarr - Pepe - Bernard - Iwobi Compare him to that lot and I think Perez holds up well. I thinking that's fair comment and that list, including a couple of names that certain people on here were clammering after, but largely been ineffective, highlights how hard it is to get an out and out top quality winger. I think there's only perhaps Anderson and perhaps Shaqiri that are really decent at this moment in time. We'll not be the only team in the summer after such a player but just hope we've got our eye on another realistic fairly unknown as i don't know of any.
Fightforever Posted 3 February 2020 Posted 3 February 2020 Mad to think that barnes would be on prime mahrez numbers if he had end product he has crazy potential.
Guest An Sionnach Posted 3 February 2020 Posted 3 February 2020 Got a feeling that Rodgers is thinking three at the back, Bennet very used to that system and with Wes and Christian as backup ( and maybe Benko next season ) it seems logical. Allows Ricci and Ben to supply width and Harvey and Ayoze to play more centrally . JJ can cover both wingback sides. That would mean a dedicated wide playing forward would not be so important.
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