The Politics Thread 2020

[Strokes]

9 hours ago, Facecloth said:

I thought the deal was oven ready and about to be popped in the microwave  He sold the election on that. No wonder he ran from Andrew Neil, no wonder he hid a fridge. Any kind of scrutiny would have shown him up as the charlatan that he is.

 

Usually when it all starts to unravel people turn on the politicians and its not long until its all over, but these day being on the winning side is more important than actually being right or doing the right thing, so expect a lot of mental gymnastics defending his shite performance.

A lot of people are happy to leave without a deal and always have been.

To be honest, I’m past caring about deal or no deal, leave or remain. I just want to rebuild what’s left after this pandemic, which has caused more economic damage than no deal ever could have done.

[Facecloth]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

A lot of people are happy to leave without a deal and always have been.

To be honest, I’m past caring about deal or no deal, leave or remain. I just want to rebuild what’s left after this pandemic, which has caused more economic damage than no deal ever could have done.

That wasn't the point I was making. You might be happy with that, fair enough, but that's not what Boris said you'd be getting when he asked you to vote for him back in December. At what point do people start realising what he actually is? A lying, lazy charlatan, who says what he thinks you want to hear but rarely actually delivers. 

[Desabafar]

10 hours ago, Facecloth said:

I thought the deal was oven ready and about to be popped in the microwave  He sold the election on that. No wonder he ran from Andrew Neil, no wonder he hid a fridge. Any kind of scrutiny would have shown him up as the charlatan that he is.

 

Usually when it all starts to unravel people turn on the politicians and its not long until its all over, but these day being on the winning side is more important than actually being right or doing the right thing, so expect a lot of mental gymnastics defending his shite performance.

 

it was "" We have got a deal, oven-ready, by which we can leave the EU in a few weeks."" that happened

[Facecloth]

22 minutes ago, Desabafar said:

 

it was "" We have got a deal, oven-ready, by which we can leave the EU in a few weeks."" that happened

He also used the microwave line, as he was ridiculed for it. What happened to that deal then? Again it was another lie to appease people in the hope they'd forget he said when it came to the crunch time.

[Kopfkino]

7 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

He also used the microwave line, as he was ridiculed for it. What happened to that deal then? Again it was another lie to appease people in the hope they'd forget he said when it came to the crunch time.

 

I don't think there was ever reference to anything other than the agreement that saw us leave the EU. I saw Tom Peck write about for The Independent yesterday and was struck by the irony of the wilful misdirection. 

 

This comes back to the bollocks all the way along of the WA being called the deal when it wasn't the deal and the actual deal was to come, or possibly not to come it seems. 

[Strokes]

13 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

I don't think there was ever reference to anything other than the agreement that saw us leave the EU. I saw Tom Peck write about for The Independent yesterday and was struck by the irony of the wilful misdirection. 

 

This comes back to the bollocks all the way along of the WA being called the deal when it wasn't the deal and the actual deal was to come, or possibly not to come it seems. 

The deal to end all deals. 😂 

[bovril]

7 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

I don't think there was ever reference to anything other than the agreement that saw us leave the EU. I saw Tom Peck write about for The Independent yesterday and was struck by the irony of the wilful misdirection. 

 

This comes back to the bollocks all the way along of the WA being called the deal when it wasn't the deal and the actual deal was to come, or possibly not to come it seems. 

I think a lot of people voted for the Conservatives on the basis that they were getting Brexit done and didn't realise that the future relationship had yet to be agreed, with the possibility of us leaving the S.M. without any kind of trade deal. And the Conservatives were happy for that to be the case. I know Brexit voters are extremely touchy about the don't know what they voted for label, but in terms of the 2019 election it was partially true. And yes I accept that a lot of commentators on the remain side were happy to play along too. 

We now have the choice of a shit trade deal, which would be good politically in the short term but not long term, or risk no-deal to totally break free of the EU's regulations. I'm surprised that so many people are so apathetic about it but at the same time I've kind of given up on discussing Brexit for my own sanity. 

[Strokes]

11 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think a lot of people voted for the Conservatives on the basis that they were getting Brexit done and didn't realise that the future relationship had yet to be agreed, with the possibility of us leaving the S.M. without any kind of trade deal. And the Conservatives were happy for that to be the case. I know Brexit voters are extremely touchy about the don't know what they voted for label, but in terms of the 2019 election it was partially true. And yes I accept that a lot of commentators on the remain side were happy to play along too. 

We now have the choice of a shit trade deal, which would be good politically in the short term but not long term, or risk no-deal to totally break free of the EU's regulations. I'm surprised that so many people are so apathetic about it but at the same time I've kind of given up on discussing Brexit for my own sanity. 

There has never been a better time for no deal. Economically we are already at ground zero and it tears up the dreadful withdrawal act. 
If people felt mislead on the premise of a trade agreement then it’s their own fault, it isn’t like the information wasn’t available. It’s all we heard from the opposition.

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

There has never been a better time for no deal. Economically we are already at ground zero and it tears up the dreadful withdrawal act. 
If people felt mislead on the premise of a trade agreement then it’s their own fault, it isn’t like the information wasn’t available. It’s all we heard from the opposition.

Tell that to people that will lose their livelihoods. 

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

Tell that to people that will lose their livelihoods. 

I will, have you got their email address?

Edited 23 August 2020 by Strokes

[Alf Bentley]

11 minutes ago, Strokes said:

There has never been a better time for no deal. Economically we are already at ground zero and it tears up the dreadful withdrawal act. 
If people felt mislead on the premise of a trade agreement then it’s their own fault, it isn’t like the information wasn’t available. It’s all we heard from the opposition.

 

Eh?!?

 

How does it tear up the Withdrawal Act?

 

[DennisNedry]

I can't be the only one who feels completely disengaged with Politics as a result of our two-party system? I actively dislike the Tories and Labour, but they'll never be a different party in power unless there's radical electoral reform.

 

 

[LiberalFox]

9 minutes ago, DennisNedry said:

I can't be the only one who feels completely disengaged with Politics as a result of our two-party system? I actively dislike the Tories and Labour, but they'll never be a different party in power unless there's radical electoral reform.

 

 

Good point.

[Voll Blau]

Quote

The Conservative Party used disinformation tactics with a “new level of impunity” during last year’s general election, a report has found.

Researchers from King’s College London warned that the campaign had risked undermining public trust during the coronavirus pandemic.

Their report said Tories had “employed overt disinformation” to secure votes, such as by altering a video of Sir Keir Starmer and posing as a fact-checker on Twitter during a leaders’ debate.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-party-disinformation-2019-general-election-a9682566.html

 

This was absolutely appalling at the time. Glad it's being brought to the fore again. Any party indulging in that level of shithousery is damaging our democracy.

[The People's Hero]

2 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-party-disinformation-2019-general-election-a9682566.html

 

This was absolutely appalling at the time. Glad it's being brought to the fore again. Any party indulging in that level of shithousery is damaging our democracy.

Rotten....

 

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows... and its howling a gale!

[Facecloth]

5 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-party-disinformation-2019-general-election-a9682566.html

 

This was absolutely appalling at the time. Glad it's being brought to the fore again. Any party indulging in that level of shithousery is damaging our democracy.

I remember plenty of people tried to defend this at the time. 

[Saxondale]

21 hours ago, bovril said:

We now have the choice of a shit trade deal, which would be good politically in the short term but not long term, or risk no-deal to totally break free of the EU's regulations. 

These supposedly heinous regulations are simply a harmonisation of standards to facilitate frictionless trade. In the long-term, to ensure any sort of serious continuity of trade, we will effectively have to subscribe to the same regulations. The difference will be that we don't have any say in how the regulations are written.

 

Let's say we went full mental and decided to establish a massively comprehensive trade deal with the US (through which they would royally shaft us) in lieu of trading with our neighbours. We would effectively have to subscribe to a load of US federal regulations. And they have A LOT more red tape than the EU. They love paperwork over there.

 

For almost every supposed Brexit benefit, the exact opposite is true. 

 

The only available two options choices in the long-term are a) essentially become an associate member, a bit like Norway, or b) turn into a weird little 'developing' economy

[Saxondale]

19 hours ago, Izzy said:

I’m a Tory boy as you know Alf but must admit I’ve not been impressed with Johnson. Figured I’d give him a chance but it’s all a bit of a shit show at the minute. The only politician who’s come out of this crisis with any credibility is Sunak IMO.

 

This is not a Conservative government in anything but name. All the actual credible Conservatives (and there were plenty of them) were ousted in the last GE.  The constituencies were filled with people whose only qualification is that they pledged allegiance to Dominic Cummings' project.

[yorkie1999]

On 20/08/2020 at 01:17, leicsmac said:

....what.

Seems to me that one of the reptilians has gone a bit awol.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53898142

 

Yep, Don, it's likely the election is going to attempt to be rigged. But that's some seriously impressive projection implying that it's the other guy that is responsible and not yourself.

[iniesta]

Crazy times in the US. Two great choices in november. A party who wants to repeat civil rights legislation in CA, supports segregated accommodation, worships a book that calls for a white racial awakening and the pres candidate who campaigned in favour of segregation. 

 

Or, Big Bad Orange man. 

[leicsmac]

24 minutes ago, iniesta said:

Crazy times in the US. Two great choices in november. A party who wants to repeat civil rights legislation in CA, supports segregated accommodation, worships a book that calls for a white racial awakening and the pres candidate who campaigned in favour of segregation. 

 

Or, Big Bad Orange man. 

Speaking purely for myself, I'd love to see citations and/or relevant arguments for this hugely impressive piece of word based gymnastics that somehow manages to infer that Trump is better for black people in the US than the Dems are.

 

Edit: or in fact, that he is better for anyone other than a rich and influential usually-white straight person and better for the environmental future of the Earth itself, which might well overrule all other matters by itself while we're playing idpol.

Edited 25 August 2020 by leicsmac

[iniesta]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Speaking purely for myself, I'd love to see citations and/or relevant arguments for this hugely impressive piece of word based gymnastics that somehow manages to infer that Trump is better for black people in the US than the Dems are.

 

Edit: or in fact, that he is better for anyone other than a rich and influential usually-white straight person and better for the environmental future of the Earth itself, which might well overrule all other matters by itself while we're playing idpol.

Where did i infer trump is better for black people? I find it all rather depressing. 

 

White straight person and idpol in the same sentence, impressive stuff! 

[Finnaldo]

Joe Biden really is a poor candidate to be fair, I can’t believe after the absolute horror show the 2016 election they went with what is ultimately a worse version of Hillary Clinton. It feels like a Republican presidency in 2024 is almost guaranteed either way really.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, iniesta said:

Where did i infer trump is better for black people? I find it all rather depressing. 

 

White straight person and idpol in the same sentence, impressive stuff! 

By saying nothing about Trumps own record on race issues and instead focusing entirely on "issues" of those opposing him.

 

WRT the second sentence, apologies for the lack of clarity - the meaning is that while a lot of people (including myself) is debating idpol, the Earth isn't going to hang around waiting for us to decide which style of shaved primate is the best before it might send us a reminder that none of us are.