The Politics Thread 2020

[davieG]

The problem with school and university grading is they all have a self interest in showing good and improved standards as so many of them are businesses and rely on student numbers to earn their profits.

 

I’m sure many of the teachers have the integrity to mark accurately but must be under extreme pressure to be generous. 

[ronnup]

28 minutes ago, davieG said:

The problem with school and university grading is they all have a self interest in showing good and improved standards as so many of them are businesses and rely on student numbers to earn their profits.

 

I’m sure many of the teachers have the integrity to mark accurately but must be under extreme pressure to be generous. 

Not this year though. We were told from the start that there's no accountability measures for this cohort. 

[rachhere]

36 minutes ago, davieG said:

The problem with school and university grading is they all have a self interest in showing good and improved standards as so many of them are businesses and rely on student numbers to earn their profits.

 

I’m sure many of the teachers have the integrity to mark accurately but must be under extreme pressure to be generous. 

i have worked in HE for ages now. Before I started teaching and grading students I thought it would be really difficult to give some students lower grades that would inevitably disappoint them. However since being in that position it is actually easier than I thought - not because I don't care, of course i do, but I am very conscious about being fair to those students who do really well, to ensure that their achievement isn't diluted by marking up others. 

[Nick]

10 minutes ago, rachhere said:

i have worked in HE for ages now. Before I started teaching and grading students I thought it would be really difficult to give some students lower grades that would inevitably disappoint them. However since being in that position it is actually easier than I thought - not because I don't care, of course i do, but I am very conscious about being fair to those students who do really well, to ensure that their achievement isn't diluted by marking up others. 

I worked in HE for over a decade as a SL and External Examiner in 4 different HE establishments. It’s not as tricky as I suspected either to get the right measure of grades but sometimes, and with experience it does take a second look or read to ensure ones prejudices or personal bias haven’t influenced the grade.

 

By prejudices I mean a range of variables, such as knowing the student has worked hard - gets it but maybe hasn’t actually demonstrated it in their assessment at a certain level of study or also knowing the personal difficulties a student has faced and reflecting on not having made sympathetic compensations.

There are of course the students that are rude, difficult, absent, lazy... It’s always good to check with the external all those boundary grades.

 

Truth though, it’s a position of real power and learning outcomes and the demonstration of them shouldn’t be subjective - but they are. The proportion of credit awarded for meeting the perceived depth of those outcomes is also subjective and easily justifiable in certain subjects either way. But that kind of judgement is what ‘professionalism’ is all about but that’s at the end of the day what they are - personal judgements. LO’s, marking criteria’s and associated taxonomy remains really subjective and the standards between universities and courses varies dramatically. 

[UniFox21]

3 hours ago, rachhere said:

This government  

 

Still no clarity on how this will practically work in terms of university places. This is only the start of resolving the mess.

Exactly, if Univeristies are now offering places back based upon teacher assessments, what happens to those who have accepted places elsewhere? 

My brother was lucky to not be impacted and his first choice still offered him a place, but a fair few of his friends missed out on places and have agreed to go elsewhere

Edited 17 August 2020 by UniFox21

[rachhere]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

Exactly, if Univeristies are now offering places back based upon teacher assessments, what happens to those who have accepted places elsewhere? 

Precisely that. I guess a retrospective adjustment/clearing process as the cap on student places has now been lifted? I suspect this will have major implications for those lower ranked institutions who are normally reliant on picking up students who don't make the grades they expected, which considering many were already under significant financial pressures is worrying. I also suspect you might have a bit of a logistical nightmare in managing socially distanced labs this year... 

[foxile5]

Dido Harding to run Public Health England. 

 

Good job there's been no data scandals in the NHS in recent times. 

[UniFox21]

7 minutes ago, rachhere said:

Precisely that. I guess a retrospective adjustment/clearing process as the cap on student places has now been lifted? I suspect this will have major implications for those lower ranked institutions who are normally reliant on picking up students who don't make the grades they expected, which considering many were already under significant financial pressures is worrying. I also suspect you might have a bit of a logistical nightmare in managing socially distanced labs this year... 

I imagine many of the lower institutions are worried, if students can move back to their preferred choice, many could be struggling to cope financially. Interesting to see what happens there. 

 

They've axed a lot of practicals, especially chemistry and biology they've removed a decent number. Every lab capacity has been halved with students arriving in groups of around 15 in staggered time slots, with a 2 hour fixed session. Everything will be a lot more complex this year, from preparation to sanitizing sides, it'll be a challenge.

[rachhere]

4 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

I imagine many of the lower institutions are worried, if students can move back to their preferred choice, many could be struggling to cope financially. Interesting to see what happens there. 

 

They've axed a lot of practicals, especially chemistry and biology they've removed a decent number. Every lab capacity has been halved with students arriving in groups of around 15 in staggered time slots, with a 2 hour fixed session. Everything will be a lot more complex this year, from preparation to sanitizing sides, it'll be a challenge.

I don't envy you. I am just waiting to hear how timetabling is going to be worked out to see how many times I am going to be running the same seminars. Oh well, at least I have 12 weeks worth of online lectures to prepare before the start of term keeping me going in the meantime..!

[UniFox21]

3 minutes ago, rachhere said:

I don't envy you. I am just waiting to hear how timetabling is going to be worked out to see how many times I am going to be running the same seminars. Oh well, at least I have 12 weeks worth of online lectures to prepare before the start of term keeping me going in the meantime..!

Ah just the 12 weeks of lectures, hopefully that isn't as time-consuming as it sounds. Timetabling took a while for us to come through, I imagine it's a bit of a challenge to squash things in without causing crowding in the buildings. 

 

I've quite enjoyed the building being empty, so having students back in will certainly be a shock

[rachhere]

2 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Ah just the 12 weeks of lectures, hopefully that isn't as time-consuming as it sounds. Timetabling took a while for us to come through, I imagine it's a bit of a challenge to squash things in without causing crowding in the buildings. 

 

I've quite enjoyed the building being empty, so having students back in will certainly be a shock

They tried to do our timetabling centrally and then gave up and asked individual schools to do them - apparently we won't get the final timetables until a few days before term starts, which is far too late. I have gone from teaching on one module last year to six this, so this hasn't exactly been the summer break I was hoping for..!  

 

It must be a bit eerie! I am looking forward to getting back and seeing people, but still at least another 8 weeks for me. 

[UniFox21]

4 minutes ago, rachhere said:

They tried to do our timetabling centrally and then gave up and asked individual schools to do them - apparently we won't get the final timetables until a few days before term starts, which is far too late. I have gone from teaching on one module last year to six this, so this hasn't exactly been the summer break I was hoping for..!  

 

It must be a bit eerie! I am looking forward to getting back and seeing people, but still at least another 8 weeks for me. 

Oh wow that is leaving things late. That is a fair increase, can imagine that involves a lot of work. Annoyingly for me, the safety forms i spent a good few months on was all in vain given the majority of them aren't running this year and will need re-doing.

 

Campus was very quiet, but the morning train was filling up slowly. Be surprised if it's not busier still when I go back in next week.

[rachhere]

2 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Oh wow that is leaving things late. That is a fair increase, can imagine that involves a lot of work. Annoyingly for me, the safety forms i spent a good few months on was all in vain given the majority of them aren't running this year and will need re-doing.

 

Campus was very quiet, but the morning train was filling up slowly. Be surprised if it's not busier still when I go back in next week.

How frustrating for you. I am surprised they haven't extended the teaching day until 8pm to try and fit more sessions in. As rubbish as that would be, I think that's the decision I would have made to maximise the available resources (and something that other unis have done, apparently). 

 

I still haven't been on a train since lockdown started. 

 

 

[UniFox21]

4 minutes ago, rachhere said:

How frustrating for you. I am surprised they haven't extended the teaching day until 8pm to try and fit more sessions in. As rubbish as that would be, I think that's the decision I would have made to maximise the available resources (and something that other unis have done, apparently). 

 

I still haven't been on a train since lockdown started. 

 

 

That would've been an interesting way to do it, would've definitely increased the number of practicals able to be done. Suspect students would've argued at being in a lab at 8pm, but I wouldn't have minded starting at say 12 to finish at 8.

 

Instead they've almost done the opposite, we have 2 sessions at max in a lab on one day, and they're required to either be the same practical or one using very similar equipment. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

[CosbehFox]

10 hours ago, foxile5 said:

Dido Harding to run Public Health England. 

 

Good job there's been no data scandals in the NHS in recent times. 

But she likes horses just her mate Matty Hancock and her husband is a Tory MP

[foxile5]

2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

But she likes horses just her mate Matty Hancock and her husband is a Tory MP

With each passing nepotistic decision or monumental **** up, this government leave me more and more speechless. 

 

The real concern is that they still retain blind support from working class folk. Harrowing stuff. 

 

[Shane]

So the Govt are keeping the algorithm grades for Btec students? No U-turn for them seems unfair.

[Izzy]

Made me chuckle 

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 hours ago, Shane said:

So the Govt are keeping the algorithm grades for Btec students? No U-turn for them seems unfair.

It's ridiculous. Someone's always going to miss out, until eventually they just raise everyones grades higher.

 

Surely teachers would predict their students grades higher than they'd expect, as it will look like the school (and themselves) are doing an excellent job. Or am I just being cynical?

[Voll Blau]

8 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

It's ridiculous. Someone's always going to miss out, until eventually they just raise everyones grades higher.

 

Surely teachers would predict their students grades higher than they'd expect, as it will look like the school (and themselves) are doing an excellent job. Or am I just being cynical?

The schools would end up looking shit in normal times if teachers overpredicted though. You'd have parents (rightly) up in arms every year if their kids en masse were getting lower grades than they expected.

[foxile5]

18 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

It's ridiculous. Someone's always going to miss out, until eventually they just raise everyones grades higher.

 

Surely teachers would predict their students grades higher than they'd expect, as it will look like the school (and themselves) are doing an excellent job. Or am I just being cynical?

You need to consider that there are students CAPABLE of, let's say a C on time C/D borderline, who will achieve that in class regularly throughout the year. 

 

The pressures of exam sitting, however, often get to these students and, in exam conditions, these students get a D. Both outcomes are correct in their own way - the students are capable of a C but the pressure of an exam saddled them with a D. 

 

The factor of exam stress will be at play in making it look like massive over prediction. 

[Strokes]

45 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

You need to consider that there are students CAPABLE of, let's say a C on time C/D borderline, who will achieve that in class regularly throughout the year. 

 

The pressures of exam sitting, however, often get to these students and, in exam conditions, these students get a D. Both outcomes are correct in their own way - the students are capable of a C but the pressure of an exam saddled them with a D. 

 

The factor of exam stress will be at play in making it look like massive over prediction. 

Yeah I agree, I imagine quite a few choke at the final hurdle.

Its just a shame the exams were not sat, as the whole thing looks discredited now.

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

Made me chuckle 

 

 

I’ve seen her in a protest before, part of crowds on demand I think.

[foxile5]

9 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I’ve seen her in a protest before, part of crowds on demand I think.

Where do I sign up for this? Seems lucrative at the minute.