The Politics Thread 2020

[DJ Barry Hammond]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

But the really wealthy will avoid it all as per usual 

 

that’s not entirely fair - there are exceptions who do pay more than their fair share .....

 

The difficulty with deciding taxation policy is that fairness doesn't necessarily produce the best outcome in terms of tax receipts.

 

Yes, the really wealthy have a lot of money compared to the millions earning not a lot at all.

 

However in number, there's a lot less of the Super Rich and they're much harder to tax because they can afford to pay clever people to hide their true wealth / income and still come out on top comparatively. They are a much different case to the millions who are taxed at source through PAYE, National Insurance and VAT. 

 

It is from this very simplified premise you can then begin to understand that whilst "taxing the wealthy more" will always be a vote winning political slogan, as a policy it doesn't necessarily equate to providing the treasury with more tax income to spend.

 

This is why when deciding policy, a Chancellor will look to strike a balance between measures that appear to be fair to the voting public and measures that actually bring in the tax income that is needed.

[Nalis]

It took Germany 91 years to pay off World War I debts.

 

It took 61 years for the UK to pay off World War II debts.

 

Point being we dont necessarily need to hike taxes up too high too soon. Spreading the debt across generations with small increases in tax is the only economical way of paying back the deficit / govt debt.

Edited 31 August 2020 by Nalis

[420Hashish]

[st albans fox]

So trump is beginning to inch his way back In the fight. It seems his main chance is the continuing protests and the occasional violent outbreaks that ensue. 
 

this could well produce a surprise turn around if it continues

 

the protestors must decide if they care who is in charge - I suspect the more radical ones would be happy for trump to win a second term rather than see Biden come in and a ‘manufactured’ situation of mutual respect establish. 

 

so whilst  those who want to see the back of trump may wish to see the protests end for a couple of months, I wouldn’t hold your breath and perhaps prepare for a huge disappointment come early November  ......... just in case .....

[ozleicester]

they dont need to increase taxes... they literally print it themselves. 

 

We havent seen inflation skyrocket since they have been pumping the billions out, this is why we need a UBI.

Print..spend.

 

The answer to the worlds problems  

 

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, st albans fox said:

So trump is beginning to inch his way back In the fight. It seems his main chance is the continuing protests and the occasional violent outbreaks that ensue. 
 

this could well produce a surprise turn around if it continues

 

the protestors must decide if they care who is in charge - I suspect the more radical ones would be happy for trump to win a second term rather than see Biden come in and a ‘manufactured’ situation of mutual respect establish. 

 

so whilst  those who want to see the back of trump may wish to see the protests end for a couple of months, I wouldn’t hold your breath and perhaps prepare for a huge disappointment come early November  ......... just in case .....

To expand on this:

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

 

It's currently 69-31 in favour of Biden according to poll analysis, and Trump has indeed closed the gap some recently. It's possible that the protests do have something to do with that, but it's not really certain.

 

FWIW I have talked to some pretty damn radical folks who want Trump in for a second term - not because they don't want a solution, but because they think that Biden is too weak on some issues and so a solution won't happen if he gets in anyway.

[Detroit Blues]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

To expand on this:

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

 

It's currently 69-31 in favour of Biden according to poll analysis, and Trump has indeed closed the gap some recently. It's possible that the protests do have something to do with that, but it's not really certain.

 

FWIW I have talked to some pretty damn radical folks who want Trump in for a second term - not because they don't want a solution, but because they think that Biden is too weak on some issues and so a solution won't happen if he gets in anyway.

My parents are Trump supporters 

[Leicester_Loyal]

12 hours ago, st albans fox said:

So trump is beginning to inch his way back In the fight. It seems his main chance is the continuing protests and the occasional violent outbreaks that ensue. 
 

this could well produce a surprise turn around if it continues

 

the protestors must decide if they care who is in charge - I suspect the more radical ones would be happy for trump to win a second term rather than see Biden come in and a ‘manufactured’ situation of mutual respect establish. 

 

so whilst  those who want to see the back of trump may wish to see the protests end for a couple of months, I wouldn’t hold your breath and perhaps prepare for a huge disappointment come early November  ......... just in case .....

Yep.

 

The longer the protests go on, the better chance Trump has of winning IMO.

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Yep.

 

The longer the protests go on, the better chance Trump has of winning IMO.

....and it's pretty amazing that he's able to manipulate at least some public opinion into thinking this is nothing to do with him when, well...he's the one that's in charge ultimately.

[Voll Blau]

I reckon that was Johnson's worst performance in PMQs. Absolutely dreadful.

 

Alarm bells must be ringing even among hardcore Tories now. For all of our sakes he needs ditching and replacing with someone who's actually up to the job.

[martyn]

43 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

I reckon that was Johnson's worst performance in PMQs. Absolutely dreadful.

 

Alarm bells must be ringing even among hardcore Tories now. For all of our sakes he needs ditching and replacing with someone who's actually up to the job.

Yep, absolutely lamentable showing. The implication Starmer was some kind of IRA sympathiser was desperate stuff. 

 

PMQ's in isolation aren't important, but with each one that passes Johnson gets another paper cut. 

Edited 2 September 2020 by martyn

[StanSP]

 

 

[Bilo]

32 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

I reckon that was Johnson's worst performance in PMQs. Absolutely dreadful.

 

Alarm bells must be ringing even among hardcore Tories now. For all of our sakes he needs ditching and replacing with someone who's actually up to the job.

 

11 minutes ago, martyn said:

Yep, absolutely lamentable showing. The implication Starmer was some kind of IRA sympathiser was desperate stuff. 

 

PMQ's in isolation aren't important, but with each on that passes Johnson gets another paper cut. 

Watching Johnson get demolished at PMQs used to be cathartic, but today was so bad that it had a genuinely depressing and worrying air to it. 

 

He sounded more like a man who'd won a competition to do PMQs for a day than a man who'd won an election to do it for four years. 

 

Bizarre IRA jibes that served only to show how much Starmer had achieved, admonished by the Speaker for failing to answer questions and lying about the bereaved families - all in 15 minutes. 

 

If the 1922 Committee aren't twitching, they ****ing should be. 

 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, Bilo said:

 

Watching Johnson get demolished at PMQs used to be cathartic, but today was so bad that it had a genuinely depressing and worrying air to it. 

 

He sounded more like a man who'd won a competition to do PMQs for a day than a man who'd won an election to do it for four years. 

 

Bizarre IRA jibes that served only to show how much Starmer had achieved, admonished by the Speaker for failing to answer questions and lying about the bereaved families - all in 15 minutes. 

 

If the 1922 Committee aren't twitching, they ****ing should be. 

 

Also, who the fxxk does his hair

 

Absolute mess of a human being. 

[Bilo]

Just now, StanSP said:

Also, who the fxxk does his hair

 

Absolute mess of a human being. 

All part of a carefully constructed persona to detract from his ineptitude. 

[Kopfkino]

The IRA stuff is really weird, I've no idea who's preparing it but I assume they've been asleep since 2017. It's clear Boris needs MPs back so he can play conductor rather than PM and MPs will get twitchy, especially as relations between government and backbenches isn't good but they should also be glad that Labour has gone corporate and therefore doesn't land any blows that make much noise on social media, let alone the news cycle. The post-2017 election to pre-Salisbury Labour Party would be cunting him up.

 

Case in point being Labour now briefing about Claire Fox's peerage but the time to make that point was during PMQs for Starmer. 

Edited 2 September 2020 by Kopfkino

[Jon the Hat]

32 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

Not even close.  MPs do this all the time, get's them a question about their constituency and gives ITV a pat on the back.

[Finnaldo]

1 hour ago, Bilo said:

Bizarre IRA jibes that served only to show how much Starmer had achieved, admonished by the Speaker for failing to answer questions and lying about the bereaved families - all in 15 minutes. 

 

Isn’t this the same man currently pushing for Claire Fox to get a peerage? 
 

The fvck is he thinking making those kind of accusations now of all times  

Edited 2 September 2020 by Finnaldo

[Bilo]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

Isn’t this the same man currently pushing for Claire Fox to get a peerage? 
 

The fvck is he thinking making those kind of accusations now of all times  

It's a surreal allegation given Starmer was putting IRA terrorists in prison while Fox was defending them.

[Ecdysiast]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

Also, who the fxxk does his hair

 

Absolute mess of a human being. 

According to friend who was drafted in to do all the VIP's hair for the London Olympics.. not only is his hair a nightmare he is the most arrogant **** he's ever met....

[urban.spaceman]

Some of the reactions are glorious. 

[Footballwipe]

34 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Some of the reactions are glorious. 

Especially when Hat Trick Productions have nothing to do with the BBC. It's quite glorious that these people, usually so well informed, don't even know that HIGNFY as a show is purchased by the BBC, not controlled/produced by them.

 

Cry cry cry in your little echo chamber of hate. No wonder your little cult, nor your divine leader managed to engage with actual rational human beings.

 

Always the victims

[Lionator]

7 hours ago, Bilo said:

If the 1922 Committee aren't twitching, they ****ing should be. 

 

I dunno, we’re still very early into an election cycle. Bizarrely Johnson is still popular with the public although this is waning. It all hangs on Brexit for Johnson, it’s even more make or break than before. He’s put himself into a corner though, no deal and the economy tanks even further, a deal at this stage and he’ll be seen as waving a white flag to the EU and will lose support from his brexit base. 
 

As a labour supporter, today was refreshing, as bad as Johnson was, Keir seemed more relaxed and more confident, as if he’s grown into his role. The ‘incompetent tories’ line is starting to stick and Johnson’s pathetic responses only emboldened him today. Labour need some decent policies over the next few months as they now have a leader which the public at the very least sees as a safe pair of hands, everything which Johnson clearly isn’t. 

[CosbehFox]

Starmer showed some passion - which has been away for his persona so far. Rightly so too. 
 

It’s the policies next. He’s wisely jabbed away at Johnson without throwing a knockout punch. 

[StanSP]

Not a good start to the day for Hancock. Says a lot...