The Politics Thread 2020

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Some valid calling to task, but some actual witch hunts 

 

Its fine to be partisan, but if it colours all speech, the speech itself becomes inaudible

There needs to be a parliamentary enquiry after this is all behind us as to how we responded, particularly where there were no tenders for large sums, and where the obvious providers were ignored.  Also though they need to review whether the contracts actually delivered.  For example I read some comments the other day about a £96M contract for PCs for school kids which sounds a lot.  A day later the Govt said they provided 500,000 laptops and tablets to kids homeschooling, which means it is quite possible they got good value.

We do also need to accept that when the shit hits the fan value for money becomes secondary to providing PPE to front line NHS staff, or ventilators to ICU.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

There needs to be a parliamentary enquiry after this is all behind us as to how we responded, particularly where there were no tenders for large sums, and where the obvious providers were ignored.  Also though they need to review whether the contracts actually delivered.  For example I read some comments the other day about a £96M contract for PCs for school kids which sounds a lot.  A day later the Govt said they provided 500,000 laptops and tablets to kids homeschooling, which means it is quite possible they got good value.

We do also need to accept that when the shit hits the fan value for money becomes secondary to providing PPE to front line NHS staff, or ventilators to ICU.

This, This and a million times this.

Calling out now is tantamount to name calling with little or no evidence

[BKLFox]

2 hours ago, RoboFox said:

 

What a surprise. 

 

I'd love to hear our right wing friends' defence of the continued and disgraceful levels of nepotism with multi-million - even billion - pound contracts during the current regime. 

Chandler: Okay, okay, okay. Uh, Chloe works with that guy Issac... Issac's sister is Jasmine... and Jasmine works at the massage place with Phoebe. And Phoebe's friends with Rachel. And that's the trail, I did it!

 

Edit - Will be lost on you if you never watched Friends of course but still....

Edited 12 January 2021 by BKLFox

[Jon the Hat]

15 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

This, This and a million times this.

Calling out now is tantamount to name calling with little or no evidence

I think we also need to take into account the fact we are WAY ahead of the game in terms of vaccinations.  Compared to Europe we are storming ahead, and ultimately this will be the game changer, and might be what overall evens things out in terms of overall impact on the nation.  It is also coming towards the end, so I think a lot of the early issues might well be forgotten once we are allowed out again.

[ealingfox]

33 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

There needs to be a parliamentary enquiry after this is all behind us as to how we responded, particularly where there were no tenders for large sums, and where the obvious providers were ignored.  Also though they need to review whether the contracts actually delivered.  For example I read some comments the other day about a £96M contract for PCs for school kids which sounds a lot.  A day later the Govt said they provided 500,000 laptops and tablets to kids homeschooling, which means it is quite possible they got good value.

We do also need to accept that when the shit hits the fan value for money becomes secondary to providing PPE to front line NHS staff, or ventilators to ICU.

 

Absolutely no chance we get a free and fair public inquiry with any kind of meaningful powers out of this mob. We're talking about people who ran a pandemic preparedness exercise a couple of years ago and then threw the results in the bin because they were inconvenient and made them look bad. Anything unfavourable will be hidden or buried and the gaslighting bullshit train will roll on and on.

 

Still waiting on the Russia report and that Islamophobia inquiry aren't we?

[CosbehFox]

Just now, ealingfox said:

 

Absolutely no chance we get a free and fair public inquiry with any kind of meaningful powers out of this mob. We're talking about people who ran a pandemic preparedness exercise a couple of years ago and then threw the results in the bin because they were inconvenient and made them look bad. Anything unfavourable will be hidden or buried and the gaslighting bullshit train will roll on and on.

 

Still waiting on the Russia report and that Islamophobia inquiry aren't we?

A Grenfell enquiry which has protected all parties giving evidence

 

If you compare that to the enquiry surrounding the Colectiv fire in Bucharest, Romania it’s pretty damning for a national whose government use the terms ‘world beating’ 

[CosbehFox]

18 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I think we also need to take into account the fact we are WAY ahead of the game in terms of vaccinations.  Compared to Europe we are storming ahead, and ultimately this will be the game changer, and might be what overall evens things out in terms of overall impact on the nation.  It is also coming towards the end, so I think a lot of the early issues might well be forgotten once we are allowed out again.

Which is mainly covering for an absolute cluster **** of their attempt at Track and Trace 

[Kopfkino]

12 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Chartwells part of a large, successful existing food service provider to schools among many others.  Presumably you would prefer the government to throw money are an unproven company who never fed kids before?  I mean it worked so well for PPE and Ferries.  FFS at least kick them for the actual incompetence.  

No, just give people cash or a suitable cash-substitute. Idk why the state needs to either directly or via private business procure food for people. We don’t need gross paternalism to demean and insult people just for being on a low income, empower them. 

[Jon the Hat]

12 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

No, just give people cash or a suitable cash-substitute. Idk why the state needs to either directly or via private business procure food for people. We don’t need gross paternalism to demean and insult people just for being on a low income, empower them. 

They provide the food in schools so not that strange to continue that provision.  They seem to have seriously dropped the ball though.

[Kopfkino]

17 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

They provide the food in schools so not that strange to continue that provision.  They seem to have seriously dropped the ball though.

But they’re not at school. Clearly mass catering in schools and supplying food parcels for individual homes are different problems. If they’d asked Tesco to do it, then it’d make more sense but even then empower people to feed their own children and don’t give kids that don’t like apples some apples.

[StanSP]

Johnson just said Rashford is doing a better job of holding the government to account. Maybe the government shouldn't get it so wrong (so many times) that it takes a footballer to cause u-turns instead of the opposition

[StanSP]

Does Johnson get a telling off like this from the Speaker every time

 

[Dahnsouff]

18 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Johnson just said Rashford is doing a better job of holding the government to account. Maybe the government shouldn't get it so wrong (so many times) that it takes a footballer to cause u-turns instead of the opposition

So get Rashford in PMQs and poor old Keir can have a well earned sit down 

[Facecloth]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So get Rashford in PMQs and poor old Keir can have a well earned sit down 

Stick him on the wing for Man Utd.

 

Left wing obviously.

Edited 13 January 2021 by Facecloth

[StanSP]

7 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So get Rashford in PMQs and poor old Keir can have a well earned sit down 

I'd actually love to see that. 

[Facecloth]

27 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Johnson just said Rashford is doing a better job of holding the government to account. Maybe the government shouldn't get it so wrong (so many times) that it takes a footballer to cause u-turns instead of the opposition

Bit of a self burn really 

[CosbehFox]

30 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Johnson just said Rashford is doing a better job of holding the government to account. Maybe the government shouldn't get it so wrong (so many times) that it takes a footballer to cause u-turns instead of the opposition

Yeah I’m shit but not shitter than you argument  

[bovril]

[Finnaldo]

I’m not going to clog up the coronavirus thread so I’ll post this here: defending politicians with “It’s a tough job” like they’re rounded up as children and forced in to the profession is ridiculous. Has it been a hard period? Yes. But that’s why they’re paid a good whack with extremely generous benefits and privileges to go with it. Chamberlain had a tough job, arguably a lot tougher than the current period, trying to contain Germany, but no one excuses his appeasement policy and poor leadership in the early days of the war because it was difficult. 
 

Politicians should be able to perform under immense pressure and extremely difficult situations, otherwise they’re  not fit to be politicians. 
 

(Quick note that I’m not criticising the wages or benefits of politicians, theres very valid historical reasons for them

to be in place)

[Nalis]

4 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I’m not going to clog up the coronavirus thread so I’ll post this here: defending politicians with “It’s a tough job” like they’re rounded up as children and forced in to the profession is ridiculous. Has it been a hard period? Yes. But that’s why they’re paid a good whack with extremely generous benefits and privileges to go with it. Chamberlain had a tough job, arguably a lot tougher than the current period, trying to contain Germany, but no one excuses his appeasement policy and poor leadership in the early days of the war because it was difficult. 
 

Politicians should be able to perform under immense pressure and extremely difficult situations, otherwise they’re  not fit to be politicians. 
 

(Quick note that I’m not criticising the wages or benefits of politicians, theres very valid historical reasons for them

to be in place)

Agreed.

 

I think its a tough job but they actively choose to do it and literally campaigned to get where they are. If they dont want it to do they can quit.

 

Not like its the begrudging office employee who got told he was being promoted as team leader for no extra money just because the last guy quit.

Edited 13 January 2021 by Nalis

[Kopfkino]

3 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

I’m not going to clog up the coronavirus thread so I’ll post this here: defending politicians with “It’s a tough job” like they’re rounded up as children and forced in to the profession is ridiculous. Has it been a hard period? Yes. But that’s why they’re paid a good whack with extremely generous benefits and privileges to go with it. Chamberlain had a tough job, arguably a lot tougher than the current period, trying to contain Germany, but no one excuses his appeasement policy and poor leadership in the early days of the war because it was difficult. 
 

Politicians should be able to perform under immense pressure and extremely difficult situations, otherwise they’re  not fit to be politicians. 
 

(Quick note that I’m not criticising the wages or benefits of politicians, theres very valid historical reasons for them

to be in place)

Idk where you’re referring to and cbf to go look and I’d agree that using it as an outright defence is poor for sure, but actually it’s important to put have that context in mind and potentially give some benefit of the doubt as a result. 

 

Everyone is guilty of this but the way some people talk, it’s as if it’s all a breeze and they just need to do xyz despite the fact the best they can aspire to is one non-entity middle management cushty job where the conditional formatting in excel not working is enough to get the cortisol flowing. And that turns into people sounding like it must be all the fault of the individuals rather than the more holistic view that it’s the fault of the whole institutional environment. The individual may be useless, lazy, indecisive but even someone that was objectively good in normal times could be properly mugged off by this situation in this setting. Leicester look great away at Stoke but go to Liverpool and many of the same players look terrible.
 

Yeah, you put yourself in the position so suck it up if you get dealt a shit hand but also none of them would realistically have ever thought this sort of thing is what they would face. At least with Chamberlain, he put himself in the position with decent knowledge of the situation rather than it being sprung on him.

 

Focus on the individuals and say they just need to deal with the situation means you’ll miss much of the story of why they didn’t and not learn much for future use.

[Scotch]

13 hours ago, StanSP said:

Johnson just said Rashford is doing a better job of holding the government to account. Maybe the government shouldn't get it so wrong (so many times) that it takes a footballer to cause u-turns instead of the opposition

Personally, I'm not so worried about them getting it wrong than I am about their outright refusal to accept or concede that they've got it wrong. That's what pisses me of. 

 

That bellend  Hancock on GMB today for example, if he had said "we got it wrong and we're doing everything possible to fix that"..... 

I would respect that. I could accept that but it must be a Tory party policy to never admit to any wrong doing. 

[Rain King]

8 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

...it must be a Tory party policy to never admit to any wrong doing. 

A trait replicated by their disciples.

[Kopfkino]

Steve Baker warning of a leadership challenge to Boris because of lockdown on the same day 1500 people died partly as a result of shithouses like him is depraved. His letter is all about liberty and no mention of any public health failures show how much he’s arsed about people dying.

 

Typical tin-pot libertarian, good rule of thumb is self-avowed libertarians are unlikely to have a good grasp of liberty.

[Corky]

I think most people, even the sceptics on here, understand the need for a current lockdown and it seems we're going well in the vaccinaion programme which should hopefully allow restrictions to be eased gradually in the not-too-distant future.

 

Opening up everything now would be madness.