Coronavirus Thread

[FoxesDeb]

9 minutes ago, StanSP said:

With all due respect that's not the post you directly quoted and not the point that poster was specifically making. 

 

The point was that some money could have been used to help the NHS, whether there was going to be a once in a lifetime event happening or not.

 

The fact there have been hundreds of billions pounds suddenly found (and disgustingly wasted) to help in that once in a lifetime event goes to show the money was there, or could have been found, at some point during the last decade. 

 

Therefore, the NHS has been under-funded and the way the government has spent money in the last 10 months emphasises that. 

Yes you're right it wasn't the actual post I quoted, but the general discussion all followed the same lines. I apologise to the poster I quoted directly, however the point remains the same though, in spite of whether or not we agree the NHS has been under funded in the past,  the health service could not have been expected to be completely prepared for the situation we are now facing, at least not without massive expense to the tax payer previously, and until now, mainly unnecessarily. 

 

I disagree that billions of pounds have been suddenly found, too, that's just not the way the world works, is it? It will all have to be paid back one way or another, it wasn't sitting in suitcases in the loft at number 10. Again, whether that money could have been acquired and then better spent sooner is a different discussion probably better had in the politics thread, but I still stand by the point that we can't always be completely prepared for any eventuality, whatever the cost. 

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

4 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Too much middle management from what friends in the nhs have told me.

Same in most public sector places.

 

You also have so many people who are just there, they don't actually do a lot. I went on a course a couple of years ago, we were looking at drawings, one of the lads there had no clue what the symbols on the drawings meant, yet he was the one who was meant to be designing the layouts using the symbols, he should have learnt the symbols within the first few months of being there. As it was he'd been there for years and had only just done minor tasks or administrative work.

 

Embarrassing really.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Yes you're right it wasn't the actual post I quoted, but the general discussion all followed the same lines. I apologise to the poster I quoted directly, however the point remains the same though, in spite of whether or not we agree the NHS has been under funded in the past,  the health service could not have been expected to be completely prepared for the situation we are now facing, at least not without massive expense to the tax payer previously, and until now, mainly unnecessarily. 

 

I disagree that billions of pounds have been suddenly found, too, that's just not the way the world works, is it? It will all have to be paid back one way or another, it wasn't sitting in suitcases in the loft at number 10. Again, whether that money could have been acquired and then better spent sooner is a different discussion probably better had in the politics thread, but I still stand by the point that we can't always be completely prepared for any eventuality, whatever the cost. 

Agree with the point Deb, but I am not sure the bit in bold is true....

[Pliskin]

53 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I've said it plenty of times on here and I'll say it again.

 

It doesn't matter how much more money we give the NHS, it'll still gobble it all up. We could give it another 3 or 4 billion a year and it'll still find a way to spend it all, without drastically improving the service it provides. It needs stripping back to the bare bones and going again. If it was a private run company, the people running it would be fired every couple of years for wasting money.

 

I think exactly the same for other parts of the public sector and I've seen first hand the millions that are wasted every week.

You’re not wrong. There is a lot of of money wasted in the public sectors (as we all know) one of the biggest wastes is changing of policies and structures...... millions can be spent implementing a change, for it only to be changed again within a few years. You are right with that you say, most of these organisations run in a way that probably isn’t really sustainable. We could increase the funding by a few million, and you’ll probably only see a few new dustbins and a vending machine....

[Dahnsouff]

5 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

You’re not wrong. There is a lot of of money wasted in the public sectors (as we all know) one of the biggest wastes is changing of policies and structures...... millions can be spent implementing a change, for it only to be changed again within a few years. You are right with that you say, most of these organisations run in a way that probably isn’t really sustainable. We could increase the funding by a few million, and you’ll probably only see a few new dustbins and a vending machine....

It something you still see in ex public sector industries that have been privatised, it’s a curious and baffling way of operating. BE being a prime example even as they exist today 

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

It something you still see in ex public sector industries that have been privatised, it’s a curious and baffling way of operating. BE being a prime example even as they exist today 

To be fair it is rife in a lot businesses too. It just seems to be a constant inevitability in the public sectors....

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Pliskin said:

To be fair it is rife in a lot businesses too. It just seems to be a constant inevitability in the public sectors....

You could of course that being a public sector industry they are always under more oversight, which is inevitable to a degree when spending tax funds. It’s when it becomes the aim rather than a side effect it is a problem.

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, Otis said:

Totally disproportionate response from the police. Typical heavy handed response on an easy target. Several police cars and van ambushing 2 women who had gone out for a walk in a largely safe and deserted area. Virtually zero risk.

A quiet word would have sufficed. 

Look what a ‘a quiet word’ has led to in this country. Total carnage.

Its time the authorities and the public took the rules seriously. Let’s hope this is the start of a proper clamp down 

[Facecloth]

6 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Look what a ‘a quiet word’ has led to in this country. Total carnage.

Its time the authorities and the public took the rules seriously. Let’s hope this is the start of a proper clamp down 

There's a lot of talk about people not following the rule causing the rise in cases, but people will always break rules, its governments jobs to make it hard for them not to, and until now its been too easy. If this is the new way of policing people to stop the spread so be it. They've been to soft for too long.

Edited 8 January 2021 by Facecloth

[foxile5]

42 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Too much middle management from what friends in the nhs have told me.

That's the current climate of state work. The management system is beholden to micro managing. So many subdivisions and extra responsibilities. 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

There's a lot of talk about people not following the rule causing the rise in cases, but people will always break rules, its governmentd jobs to make it hard for them not to, and until now its been too easy. If this is the new way of policing people to stop the spread so be it. They've been to soft for too long.

Right, I ain’t getting into another argument with you 

 

but, shouldn’t it be up to members of society to follow guidance and not need to test their limits? Although I just confess, I have often thought the time for the carrot has long past, time for the stick.

[foxile5]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Right, I ain’t getting into another argument with you 

 

but, shouldn’t it be up to members of society to follow guidance and not need to test their limits? Although I just confess, I have often thought the time for the carrot has long past, time for the stick.

Government shouldn't have to be draconian; society has a responsibility to not be passive. 

 

It's a fine, fine line. 

[Facecloth]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Right, I ain’t getting into another argument with you 

 

but, shouldn’t it be up to members of society to follow guidance and not need to test their limits? Although I just confess, I have often thought the time for the carrot has long past, time for the stick.

Argument or discussion? If you don't want people responding to posts, stop posting. The forum would be pretty boring if nobody responded to any posts.

 

We have laws for lots of things though. I mean where does the allowing free reign and trusting the public stop. Do we have no drink driving laws, no laws about carry knives or guns. I'm all for personal responsibility, but when your decisions affect others then people need pulling into line, and that's a government's job. Its nearly been a year, clearly trusting the public hasn't worked. Blame the government's poor messaging, blame the public for being collectively idiotic, but its still their job to put things in place to force us to tow the line.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

Argument or discussion? If you don't want people responding to posts, stop posting. The forum would be pretty boring if nobody responded to any posts.

 

We have laws for lots of things though. I mean where does the allowing free reign and trusting the public stop. Do we have no drink driving laws, no laws about carry knives or guns. I'm all for personal responsibility, but when your decisions affect others then people need pulling into line, and that's a government's job. Its nearly been a year, clearly trusting the public hasn't worked. Blame the government's poor messaging, blame the public for being collectively idiotic, but its still their job to put things in place to force us to tow the line.

As @foxile5said, it’s a fine line. Some will always disagree with that lines location. Put a curfew in place, might work. 

[Facecloth]

6 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

As @foxile5said, it’s a fine line. Some will always disagree with that lines location. Put a curfew in place, might work. 

I think we're past that point now. People can discuss the merits of other laws all they like, but this is imperative we get it right now. No more pussy footing around. All being well they won't be around for long if we implement strongly enough.

[Facecloth]

18 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Government shouldn't have to be draconian; society has a responsibility to not be passive. 

 

It's a fine, fine line. 

The shouldn't have to be, but at times like this tough measures are called for.

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

Just need to vent. My missus is voice noting her mate who works in healthcare. She’s been offered the vaccine and just casually drops in conversation that she decided against having it due to concerns about long term effects. Just hearing that from someone in her position has got me absolutely seething!

FFS imagine everyone had that thought process! 

[Otis]

If a nearly deserted park is so dangerous then why not close it.

[StanSP]

I do enjoy when things like this happen.

 

[The Fox Covert]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

The police will be getting short shrift from me if they want to fine me for going for a walk.  Ridiculous behaviour.  I can guarantee not one copper will want to take the point to court.

I looked at the boots in my hall at tea time and thought that unless I drive to a popular beauty spot and leave my car in the car park it is unlikely that I will be challenged by the police.

It is pretty unlikely that the police will lie in wait down a quiet country lane and pursue a lone walker across a muddy field unless the walker has just killed somebody. 

I don't suppose that the police have muddy boots and uniforms cleaned for them, they will have to do it themselves in their own time.

So don't go to Bradgate Park or Foxton Locks, but get out a map and go somewhere new.

You could also wear a one-piece boiler suit. If you do come across the police they will most likely assume that you are the local farmer.

[urban.spaceman]

11 months into a pandemic.

 

 

 

[Facecloth]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

11 months into a pandemic.

 

 

 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

It's like he's darth sidious he looks borderline evil. Not saying he is at all but jeez, he looks dodgy. 

[StanSP]

18 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

11 months into a pandemic.

 

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

It's obviously late in the day to go for such a push but there were so many people saying 'act like you have the virus' very early on. It's not a new motto that needs to be said and is more pointed towards behaviour against the new strain. 

[Guest Fktf]

1 hour ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

Just need to vent. My missus is voice noting her mate who works in healthcare. She’s been offered the vaccine and just casually drops in conversation that she decided against having it due to concerns about long term effects. Just hearing that from someone in her position has got me absolutely seething!

FFS imagine everyone had that thought process! 

Prediction: Too many will have this thought process, and we'll face a lockdown next winter because we haven't reached herd immunity.